Is Religion in general anti-woman?

[Guest]

I am not griping but discussing. I have a right to my opinion. I take what the church has taught me try to use it and like you saying the bishop might have info I don't, but am I not called to that position and not inspired to make decisions also. Does he trump always? If not why am i there? And as far as my role as a woman...explain it to me. Is it to be seen and not heard? Do you practice that?

The problem with your opinion is that you are applying a ward incident as a church norm. If you've been LDS long enough to have been called into all those presidencies, then you would know that the Church does not teach that women are to be seen and not heard.

One thing I really like about General Conference - and I've been listening to GC since Pres. Hinckley was the prophet - is the reverence that the prophets and apostles display to their wives. Pres. Hinckley usually tears up when talking about his wife. This transmits to the reverence they show to the women of the church - usually in the way they address the RS.

But, if your problem with the church goes deeper than that - like having a problem with why God gave the task of the restoration to Joseph and not Jessica - then, you'll have to take that up with the Lord.

[PrincessAllie91]

I find the LDS to be one of the least 'sexist' religions I've ever come across to be honest. Our roles are different, but no calling or status in the Church is less important than another.

[norah63]

As power tends to corrupt, then as a woman why would I want the power of any office, in any church? It seems a great responsibility and some (men or women) may have entered into without having a real

revelation. Let's hope not many.

I have been in prodestent churches where they are just as anti women in certain things, like prayer or teaching. Also home bible studies. It seems to be that who ever runs the study, has the say.

Personally I prefer relationship over religion, at this time.

[mordorbund]

Frankly, I perceive that Islam is so male-oriented, that many Americans men find it refreshingly masculine. This might explain why an off-shoot, the Nation of Islam, appealed so much to African-American men. Buddhism, on the other hand, probably does have a strong female draw, at least in the U.S. I wonder, in other words, if women are generally more religious than men across the board, with religions like Islam offering one of a few exceptions.

BTW, I cut my teeth in prison ministry working with Promise Keepers. The basic premise of that movement was that church had become so feminized that men could not easily relate.

So, going with the gist of this string, are LDS wards gender-balanced? If so, is it because the teachings do stress traditional gender roles more than many traditional churches (though I think the Southern Baptists are even more focused on gender roles)?

As I read the article, Promise Keepers specifically came to mind. I was also thinking about whether or not the LDS church has an unbalanced, feminine draw. Here's some of my anecdotal thoughts.

I'm not too sure what the source of the feminizing of Christianity is (the article said it started in the 13th century, but I didn't catch a primary cause). I do see how the emphasis on a personal relationship with Christ can be emasculating. "Relationship" is not exactly a guy word. We network; we fellowship; we have a brotherhood. I don't even have a good relationship with my brothers (I have 6); I "get along fine with them". So I can see that as one aspect. Within the LDS church, I don't think we have as much of an issue with that. I do think the extra-canonical church (by this I mean the things that aren't officially associated with the church, but is targeted to an LDS audience, like Especially For Youth, or Time Out for Women) does have more of a slant in this direction.

It also seems like the LDS church has more of an emphasis on God the Father than mainstream Christianity. Removing him removes the Divine example of fatherhood. Christ is an example of a father, but he is the adoptive father. I may be off on this, but I think the idea of fatherhood is naturally more masculine than adoption - primarily because I think nature requires me to eat adopted children. Add to this that the process of adoption that Christ went through is often described in feminine terms. The Atonement is something of a birthing process, and I am to feel gratitude for him based on an emotional appeal of all his suffering.

I think for the LDS, we have the specific challenge that feeling the Spirit is usually described in feminine ways: it's a burning in the bosom; we see people crying when they feel the Spirit. In some ways this is balanced with some masculine descriptions (pure intelligence pouring in, still small voice (?)), but the masculine ones can be overshadowed by the feminine ones.

On the other hand, we have a strong patriarchal familial association. We also have the Priesthood organization in the church. So men are taught by men regularly the masculine principles of duty, honor, and integrity. Our young men's program is tied in to scouting, which the article recommended as a way to bootstrap congregational manliness. Our young men also have various rites of passage and duties associated with levels in the Aaronic Priesthood (12, 14 and 16 years old).

When it comes to actual attendance, I think most married men are there with their wives. Our Elders Quorum usually has 2 regularly active single men. So I guess we could do better non-familial masculinity, but that can be difficult in a religion who's ultimate blessing is to be a father in the eternities. I think we have more part-member families attending where the mother is a member than where the father is a member (can't think of any in my ward at the moment), but I chalk that up more to the maxim that if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.

[momof7-2nheaven]

As power tends to corrupt, then as a woman why would I want the power of any office, in any church? It seems a great responsibility and some (men or women) may have entered into without having a real

revelation. Let's hope not many.

I have been in prodestent churches where they are just as anti women in certain things, like prayer or teaching. Also home bible studies. It seems to be that who ever runs the study, has the say.

Personally I prefer relationship over religion, at this time.

So are you saying Men in the church are Corrupt?????

[momof7-2nheaven]

It seems as though I have done my usual and kicked open a hornet's nest, even in my own house. Thanks for all the input. I just like to pour gas on flames that are smoldering, just for kicks. i hope no one go really angry at this. I do believe that Islam is more masculine than the LDS church but I think we come in a strong second.....

[momof7-2nheaven]

LOL if you knew me at all, the notion of me being seen and not heard would be pretty funny to you. All I have to say is that I do believe that men and women have separate but equal responsibilities in the Gospel, and that encompasses what happens in our ward families and families at home. I am not lesser than my husband or my bishop, but I understand and respect that they have responsibilities that I don't and those responsibilities come with a mantle, just as mine do as well. I think when we look for ways to be offended, we can always find them. I think that when we are struggling, whether because of outside happenings or because we're neglecting to do the things that feed our spirits, we lose sight of things as they are and instead see things as the world might. I son't take offense at the fact that the bishop has more inspiration than I do in certain things, because he has stewardship of the whole ward; and besides, unto whom much is given, much is required. I'm thankful for all he does and all of his efforts in behalf of our ward; the time and worry and efforts he gives freely, in his OWN TIME. I wouldn't want his job in a million years.

I take no offense in your opinion. It is true that I am dealing with a lot in my life right now, certainly some of which has taken me away from God(losing 2 children, both very traumatic ways) I have tried to get some what of a testimony back but the anger blinds most of this light. I appreciate your views and took some of what you said to heart. I know I am looking for understanding from sources that are not equipped to give it. I am thinking about maybe reaching out to other churches for some new and different peace.

[momof7-2nheaven]

Since the OP is directed at religion in general, I'd like to point out an ironic reality. Many congregations are made up overwhelmingly of women and children. My own church (AoG) is sometimes jokingly referred to as the Assembly of Girls. So...if religions in are anti-women, why do women generally seem to be more pious?

My idea on this is that women are in charge of raising the children, and for the most part God in your children's lives gives some morality for them to follow that doesn't only come from their parents. (Just a thought)

Women are also certainly more emotional. The burning or feeling of the spirit would have to be classified as an emotion.

[mordorbund]

I do believe that Islam is more masculine than the LDS church but I think we come in a strong second.....

What leads you to think this? Do you know more Muslim men than women? Or are there specifics tenets that you're thinking of?

[Colirio]

It's funny that you mentioned your experiences being on the ward council.

I am a man and have experienced the very same feelings, frustrations, and even sadness at having my "good ideas" and thoughts being turned down by a Bishop when I have served on the ward council that you have expressed.

Laying aside the gender roles for a moment, the bigger question to me is why anyone wants the authority associated with those Priesthood keys.

As Elder Bednar pointed out during the training meeting with the new handbooks, revelation can come from any source. That can be the Young Women's President, the Bishop himself, the Ward Clerk, or the random 3 year old that happened to come with his parents and plays quietly in the corner. It's up to the Bishop to recognize that revelation as such and implement it. He is accountable to Christ for doing so.

So, as a member of the ward in general, we have all the opportunity to receive the same revelations, partake of the same Spirit, be edified thereby, or not. All the while not being held accountable to Christ for failing to make the correct decisions concerning others.

Isn't this WHY we are not supposed to aspire to callings to begin with?

So, going back to my question, why would anyone, male or female, be upset about not being given the responsibility for a leadership position in the church? Do we feel that we are limited in our abilities to serve others just because we are not called to a specific type of service? Do we feel that our standing with the Savior or our seat at the Celestial Dinner Table will be affected negatively by anyone other than ourselves?

[FunkyTown]

I just wanted to know how many people out there believe that most religions treat women as a second class citizen, a lower status than men?

You've heard how a lot of the other sisters feel, but it sounds like you have a particular hurdle you're attempting to get over. That's understandable. We all have them - Are you an LDS member feeling like you're a second class citizen?