Staying With or Ending A Marriage-Opinions

[Guest FixingTheWrongs]

I'm fortunate to be in a great marriage. Though we've had issues and trials, some of the things I've read here really hit home that I have it pretty good.

As I've read through the posts I've wondered at the following.

From the things I've read here, I'm just wondering what it is that makes a person decide to stick with a marriage or end it. From what I've seen the straw that usually breaks the camel's back is the other spouse not willing to work on the issues.

Does anyone else have any opinion's?

[Dravin]

My, uninformed, opinion is that as long as two both spouses are willing to commit to improving a marriage it's survivable. As for what might cross my own unwilling to commit threshold... I'm not entirely sure unless we're gonna get obviously extreme with the hypotheticals.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Dravin

[JudoMinja]

I can only speak from my own personal experience, but I know that the straw that broke the camel's back in my previous marriage was when my child was put in danger. My husband would often pick fights with me over the tiniest little things and would get very physical, to the point that I feared for my life. Self-preservation never really kicked in, because I had become very depressed and was even considering ending my own life. The only reason I didn't was because I knew my newborn child needed me to take care of him. When my husband picked a fight with me while I was trying to put our son down for a nap and tried to get physical while I was holding this five month old baby, I was very lucky that the child did not get hurt. But it was close.

That was it for me. It was like a switch went off in my brain, and I knew I had to leave if I was ever going to keep my baby safe. Nothing else would have done it for me. I was willing to stick it through and try and try and keep on working on making things better. I was willing to look past all my own personal pain and suffering, because I'd made a commitment to my marriage and I didn't take that lightly.

I know now that my mindset had become rather warped and that there are certain things I should never tolerate in a spouse. I know that I should have hit my "breaking point" way sooner than I did in that particular marriage, because I tolerated far more than anyone should ever have to tolerate. In the future, should I remarry, my plan is a "one-strike" policy. Should my future husband cross the line into abusive or adulterous territory, he gets one chance to make it right. He will get kicked out temporarily while he makes amends by going to therapy, anger management, bishop, etc. If he makes progress, he will be welcomed back, but should he revert to the same problem again it would be over for me.

I don't know how much that helps answer your question, but that is my personal experience and opinion - at least as far as I handled it and plan on handling things in the future.

[BenRaines]

When both are not willing to work on the issues. I chose to stay in a loveless marriage for over 20 years being told "I don't love you anymore" "I don't need counseling" "If you don't like it go somewhere else", etc. Once the children were all grown and settled down then I divorced. Married over 30 years.

Now remarried to a true partner who I can never do enough for and she for me. This is how I knew it should be all along but it never was before now.

Ben Raines

[Jennarator]

I have often seen things end when one (or both) won't bend and don't want to work out issues.

[Guest]

When both are not willing to work on the issues. I chose to stay in a loveless marriage for over 20 years being told "I don't love you anymore" "I don't need counseling" "If you don't like it go somewhere else", etc. Once the children were all grown and settled down then I divorced. Married over 30 years.

Now remarried to a true partner who I can never do enough for and she for me. This is how I knew it should be all along but it never was before now.

Ben Raines

I'm glad you found happiness. As strongly as I feel about marriage, your first marriage sounds almost as bad as my brother's. I know that his kids are what keep him hanging on. Two are out of the house now, and sadly I hope that when the other two are gone, he takes the same path that you do and finds a deserving companion.

[Guest]

In my marriage, divorce is not an option.

[trubludru]

Yeah, I would say that is it, one spouse unwilling to work on or even admit there is a problem or something that they could do to change the relationship. That is what did in my marriage. I busted my hump trying to get educated and seek out help and show as much love as I could to my ex and in turn I received nothing but emotional abuse and the insistance that I was the one causing every problem in the relationship. I could have stuck in there if I felt like my ex was willing or attempting to make the slightest effort to build the relationship, but she seemed unwilling or unable to show the slighest interest in doing so over the period of several months.

So I made the decision to get divorced as we were married pretty much in name only instead of continuing to live in a very unhappy and unpleasant situation. I never thought I'd face a problem that I couldn't deal with or get through, but being with someone (who you supposedly covenanted with to be married to for eternity) that doesn't even want to try making things better, let alone actively accusing you of being a horrible person when you are doing everything you can to show you love her, was simply too much to handle. I never thought I would consider divorce, but when your spouse truly does not care about the relationship and for months has shown no indication that they have any love or even consideration for you, what is the point of being married to them? Men are that they might have joy.

Edited January 20, 2012 by trubludru

[Bini]

In my marriage, divorce is not an option.

In a healthy and happy marriage, divorce is never an option. When your spouse beats the crap out of you, threatens the safety of your children and has no remorse, divorce becomes an option.

[annewandering]

If a person goes into a marriage determined to make it work with total commitment then if it has a chance in the world it will work.

Some behaviours, abuse, pedophilia, etc., cannot be worked with but most can be. I,also, would not stay in a marriage where my spouse hated or even disliked me even if he was perfect otherwise. What would be the point?

To stay married through thick and thin does require a high level of commitment, forgiveness and respect.

I have been married for almost 41 years now and there have been some really rough patches but what we have is so worth the effort.

[Jennarator]

Interesting conversation.

Ya know, when my husband and I were talking about getting married, we knew that a blended family and the issues that can cause, would be our biggest area for potential fights and the marrige falling apart. We decided that anytime an issue comes up about the kids, we would talk about it and we decided, ahead of time, that would NOT break us up. So far the only tiffs we have been in were about the kids. And those, so far, have NOT been bad. We'll make it.

[annewandering]

Interesting conversation.

Ya know, when my husband and I were talking about getting married, we knew that a blended family and the issues that can cause, would be our biggest area for potential fights and the marrige falling apart. We decided that anytime an issue comes up about the kids, we would talk about it and we decided, ahead of time, that would NOT break us up. So far the only tiffs we have been in were about the kids. And those, so far, have NOT been bad. We'll make it.

Truth is you dont have to have blended family to fight about the kids! :) Just thought you might like to know we, probably, all do at one time or other.

My husband is very easy going and not strict at all. We made an agreement that we would not interfere with the other over petty stuff. Of course he is the good guy and I am not. Oh well lol.

[Guest]

In a healthy and happy marriage, divorce is never an option. When your spouse beats the crap out of you, threatens the safety of your children and has no remorse, divorce becomes an option.

Agree.

I expressed before on lds.net that I couldn't imagine being close friends with somebody for 2 years and not know if he's capable of beating the crap out of me. I would think that the careful selection of a spouse is 90% of the challenge.

Of course, some people pointed out that there are those guys that are perfect models of the human species until they get married and they show their dark stripes. I don't know, I've never met anybody like this so it's completely outside of my sphere of experience.

[slamjet]

Of course, some people pointed out that there are those guys that are perfect models of the human species until they get married and they show their dark stripes. I don't know, I've never met anybody like this so it's completely outside of my sphere of experience.

Hello! I wasn't perfect, but I sure did hide a whole lot of things that blew up after marriage.

So, how about those cousins...

[trubludru]

Of course, some people pointed out that there are those guys that are perfect models of the human species until they get married and they show their dark stripes. I don't know, I've never met anybody like this so it's completely outside of my sphere of experience.

/Begin rant

It isn't just men who can be abusive, my ex became very emotional abusive towards me and while my life wasn't threatened it is still abuse. She wasn't that way before the marriage, but for whatever reason she thought it was normal to act that way once we were. I have a co-worker who has an emotionally abusive wife as well. He has stuck out the marriage because he has kids and if they were divorced the kids would likely end up with the mom. I respect what he is doing but I had no children and no desire to have children with my ex once her "dark stripes" showed. Again I went into the marriage with someone I thought I'd be with forever, and I wish wasn't divorced, but it was basically that or end up curled in the fetal position in my parents basement for the rest of my life or even worse get to the point I had no desire to even live. It isn't a black and white issue, of you can always make it work if you want to. Sure I could be "married" still but what is the point if only causes misery? I did a lot of praying and pondering before I made the decision to get divorced and the answer I got was that my ex was choosing not to honor the covenants she'd made with God and with me, and I couldn't change that. I don't advocate divorce, it is pure hell to go through, but sometimes it is for the best, even if you aren't physically in danger.

/ End Rant

[JudoMinja]

/Begin rant

It isn't just men who can be abusive, my ex became very emotional abusive towards me and while my life wasn't threatened it is still abuse. She wasn't that way before the marriage, but for whatever reason she thought it was normal to act that way once we were. I have a co-worker who has an emotionally abusive wife as well. He has stuck out the marriage because he has kids and if they were divorced the kids would likely end up with the mom. I respect what he is doing but I had no children and no desire to have children with my ex once her "dark stripes" showed. Again I went into the marriage with someone I thought I'd be with forever, and I wish wasn't divorced, but it was basically that or end up curled in the fetal position in my parents basement for the rest of my life or even worse get to the point I had no desire to even live. It isn't a black and white issue, of you can always make it work if you want to. Sure I could be "married" still but what is the point if only causes misery? I did a lot of praying and pondering before I made the decision to get divorced and the answer I got was that my ex was choosing not to honor the covenants she'd made with God and with me, and I couldn't change that. I don't advocate divorce, it is pure hell to go through, but sometimes it is for the best, even if you aren't physically in danger.

/ End Rant

While I understand and agree with what you are saying in your rant, I think it is misplaced. Being female, anatess would certainly be looking for "guys" or men who flip and do a total one-eighty after marriage, not women. From what she said in her post, and my personal knowledge of her, I do not think that anatess meant to exclude the possibility of women being abusive by saying "guys".

I've seen the abusive extremes from both genders- in my previous marriage and in my older brother's previous marriage. I think that in many ways women who abuse are worse than men, because they tend to use more subtle and manipulative tactics. I know from personal experience that this is not a gender specific problem. Before my brother divorced, his wife put him through just about everything my husband put me through. She ruined his finances, destroyed his self-esteem, alienated him from his family, monitered all his communications and interactions with others, constantly berated and belittled him, destroyed his property, and phyiscally struck and assaulted him. There were many instances where my brother came home to my parents to escape her abuse, but his breaking point did not come until she committed adultery with a sixteen year old. That was when he finally filed for divorce, but even then he went back and forth with her several times trying to "work things out for the sake of the kids".

Like anatess said, I think making a careful decision before stepping into a marriage is 90% of the battle. My first decision was not a careful one, and neither was my brothers. We both let emotions and impatience get the better of us. There were many warning signs in my relationship before I ever married and same with my brother's marriage. Make a good careful decision and virtually nothing should be able to break apart your marriage.

That being said, no matter how careful a decision you make, there is always the possibility that your relationship could cross over into the extremes that make it unhealthy. It is my personal belief that a couple should be able to work through anything "for better or worse" as long as those extremes are never crossed. That is why I have established my "one-strike" policy for a future marriage. I will be making a much more careful decision and don't think that one-strike will ever become an issue. But if it does... I'm not tolerating it.

[Guest]

I grew up in the Philippines where divorce is illegal. Legal separation is provided for abusive situations and situations that involve adultery. But, legally separated people cannot remarry. Adultery is a crime and legally separated people can be sued by their spouses for adultery.

The system developed a culture that makes marriage a very serious business with both parties going into the marriage knowing they will have to work through everything.

I've kept this principle even after migrating to the US. I had to elope when I decided to marry a non-Catholic American. My parents were very upset - different religion, different race is a very giant challenge that is a recipe for failed marriages. But, my husband and I were friends for almost 2 years before we got married. I had every confidence that we can work through the differences. And before we got married, we made a pact - divorce is not an option. There were times in our 14 years of marriage that the only thing keeping us together was the pact. We overcame the challenges and became stronger for it. But then, my husband is the best husband in the universe. I have a major temper problem that tend to become verbally and physically abusive when it goes out of control. My husband knew this coming into the marriage and decided it's something he can handle. He is my partner in overcoming this. Yes, there were times when he had to dodge plates thrown at his head, but all through it, he was rock steady in his dedication to help me overcome it. And no, I'm not cured. It's going to be a lifelong challenge and he is there, right by my side secure in the knowledge that I love him with all of my being.

Edited January 21, 2012 by anatess

[mrmarklin]

AAA

The three deal breakers:

Adultery

Abuse

Addiction

[Martain]

Having come from a family where both my parents and grandparents (one side) divorced, I'm dead set determined that divorce will not be an option for me. My covenant to her will be an eternal one and I'm determined that hell or high water I'll keep that covenant.

While there are valid reasons for divorce, hopefully who ever I find will feel the same way I do about marriage as that will definitely help.

Basically my promise to whom ever I marry will be that if there is trouble I'll do anything to make it right and see any amount of therapists and councilors to help us through it. I'll promise that divorce will never be an option unless because of sin the Lord commands me to do so.

That being said, I don't expect to enter the covenant of marriage without first having received confirmation from the Lord that he approves of us getting married. Even this can sometimes be insufficient though.

Both my father and mother received such a confirmation before getting married. Yet after my mother filed for separation, my father says the spirit clearly told him that to pursue a divorce as it would ultimately become such in the future and this way both parties would be spared much pain and agony.

All I can do is ensure that there is nothing I do or do not do which would prompt or cause such an event to happen and trust the Lord that he will take care of the rest.

As to your original question I would expect that one of your answers is 'revelation'. When things get tough and painful, those who have received such a confirmation prior to marriage will have a greater store of enduring strength in my opinion than those who do not.

There is also another way that 'revelation' is your answer. In the midst of trials and painful situations, those who rely on the Spirit and have access to divine revelation can receive enduring power then as well.

If you were having difficulty in your marriage through prayer and you asked if you should divorce and his guidance was to endure it, wouldn't that make a huge difference?

[Bini]

Martain, you make great points. I think all of us agree that divorce is never an option in a healthy and happy marriage. Mind you, that doesn't mean that a "healthy" and "happy" marriage isn't without hiccups. A healthy and happy marriage means BOTH parties are willing to acknowledge faults and work on them. In this case, yes, divorce is not an option because as long as there's a "will", there's a way and through the Lord, it's possible.

But in a marriage where only ONE is striving for a successful (functional, loving & eternal) marriage, and the other quite frankly doesn't give a darn, I don't believe at all that the Lord would command anyone to "endure" it. The Lord would command us to forgive, forgive ourselves and move forwards in his plan he's set out for us. One cannot achieve this if he or she spends his or her whole life battling their spouses demons. We can't change nor save others. And if your partner point blank doesn't want what you want and falls under the 3 A's.. Time to get out.

[Dravin]

That being said, I don't expect to enter the covenant of marriage without first having received confirmation from the Lord that he approves of us getting married. Even this can sometimes be insufficient though.

Insufficient for what? I think the direction your going is a guarantee against divorce, but I want to make sure. Because I agree that such confirmation is no guarantee against the agency of one or both spouses being used to destroy love and marriage.

[Martain]

That being said, I don't expect to enter the covenant of marriage without first having received confirmation from the Lord that he approves of us getting married. Even this can sometimes be insufficient though.

Both my father and mother received such a confirmation before getting married. Yet after my mother filed for separation, my father says the spirit clearly told him that to pursue a divorce as it would ultimately become such in the future and this way both parties would be spared much pain and agony.

Yes, as you say, that's what I meant.

[Juan_P]

I'm glad you found happiness. As strongly as I feel about marriage, your first marriage sounds almost as bad as my brother's. I know that his kids are what keep him hanging on. Two are out of the house now, and sadly I hope that when the other two are gone, he takes the same path that you do and finds a deserving companion.

Yes, it is important to find a dererving companion. Someone who doesn't love you or cheats on you.

There may be excuses to delay things, like kids growing up, but eventually nature and God will make people look for and find deserving partners.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Juan_P

[Guest]

I have no idea what you just said, Juan (edited: now that you edited that sentence, it makes sense), but his role as a father is the most important to him of any. He is an amazing dad. He decided early on that it would be best for him to be there for them every single day instead of every other weekend. He's taking the hits (verbally) so that they don't have to. He also believes in the covenants he's made and keeps hoping and hoping that she will change (she has for short periods. The longest was when she dragged him to the bishop to be told off, and she ended up getting the tongue-lashing. She was a lot better for a while after that.)

I've often wishes his decision was different, because he is so very unhappy and he's been so stifled. But I respect that he feels like this is best, and he's doing everything he can to make sure he knows 100% that this is a marriage that can't be saved before he walks away. But I think (and hope) that once the kids are gone, her days are numbered.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Eowyn