Mormons and Church History

[HEthePrimate]

Nadia...let's pick a broader historical difficulty. Christian missionaries came with western militaries and opium traders to China. In retrospect, it very much looked like we went there to conquer their militaries, their economy, and their spirituality.

But hey, that was a long time ago. My church's missionaries didn't do it. So, what do I care? Why should I? Well...because I'm white, I'm Christian, and these people were wounded by white Christians. Rather than protest my personal innocence, the happy medium might be to listen to the stories and heartbreaks--to really listen. Where there was clear error, to express sorrow at the harm caused. Chances are, there will be little need to defend and debate, if we simply show we can listen to those who believe they were hurt by ancestors with whom we have common (or even similar) cause.

+1 Good approach, IMHO.

[Vort]

When you join a community, you own its history, its foibles, as well as its accomplishments and victories.

But that's the point, PC. The MMM murderers are not my community, any more than the Lafferty brothers. The fact that they happened to be Mormons doesn't make their story my own any more than the fact that Ted Bundy was at one time a Mormon (or a white man) saddles me to any degree with the responsibility for his acts. So I ask: For what reason and in what sense am I supposed to "own" the murders at Mountain Meadows?

[prisonchaplain]

But that's the point, PC. The MMM murderers are not my community, any more than the Lafferty brothers. The fact that they happened to be Mormons doesn't make their story my own any more than the fact that Ted Bundy was at one time a Mormon (or a white man) saddles me to any degree with the responsibility for his acts. So I ask: For what reason and in what sense am I supposed to "own" the murders at Mountain Meadows?

I did not commit adultery with my secretary, oversell "timeshares" to my Christian resort, nor solicit prostitutes so I could engage in voyeurism. Nevertheless, I have been asked to respond to the infamous stories of "the two Jimmies" (Bakker & Swaggart) countless times. Why? They were Assemblies of God ministers. Sure, I could respond with a curt, "Hey...that was them, not me, not us!" It might shush those inquiring minds, but I'd hardly generate goodwill towards my church.

In my case, I simply listen to what people have to say. I won't gossip about those two men or their families. As you did with Bundy, I do point out that neither is ordained with my church any longer. On the other hand, I also share the rehabilitation process our church has, as well as preventative counseling and support we now enjoy.

Edited February 8, 2012 by prisonchaplain

[Traveler]

I did not commit adultery with my secretary, oversell "timeshares" to my Christian resort, nor solicit prostitutes so I could engage in voyeurism. Nevertheless, I have been asked to respond to the infamous stories of "the two Jimmies" (Bakker & Swaggart) countless times. Why? They were Assemblies of God ministers. Sure, I could respond with a curt, "Hey...that was them, not me, not us!" It might shush those inquiring minds, but I'd hardly generate goodwill towards my church.

In my case, I simply listen to what people have to say. I won't gossip about those two men or their families. As you did with Bundy, I do point out that neither is ordained with my church any longer. On the other hand, I also share the rehabilitation process our church has, as well as preventative counseling and support we now enjoy.

I have read your post with interest (as always). I am also aware of your Asian connections - but I am more concerned with some things than you seem to be.

I have posted this before in other posts but have never put everything together. A child of one of the families involved in the opium China trade was FDR - and became president of the USA - I listened to Ron Paul the other night concerning international and budget problems. I know you are a mod and we are not to talk about current politics - but I wonder if the social - religious - political connections in history are a greater threat today - and religion is involved? and we have only seen the tip of the iceberg in history. I will end now because I do not want to offend anyone but I am not having good feelings.

The Traveler

[rayhale]

PC has a point, there is the guilt by association that people associate when they hear that someone infamous is, or was, a member, like Ted Bundy, or have horror stories of bad Bishops, or other church-members, of a Ward that they went to twenty or more years ago. Then there are always those people that are against any organized religion because of their bad experience in the churches that they went to.