Prayer-what's Its Use?

[JoshuaFKon]

Josh,

Good point. I thought the requirement was to show enough faith and God will answer your prayers (from what was said in this thread) and it didn't quite seem right. If you did actually have faith to move a mt. do you literally think it could happen?

Thank you

Dr. t

Yes, I literally believe If I wanted a Mt. to move, and I built up my faith, I could move it (anywhere paticular you want it? :) )

I am willing to do a test, (I have never personally tested my theory) Pick something (not a Mt. please :) ) and I'll pray for it to happen, something reasonable, unlikely, but not "impossible"

Josh B)

[Ray]

Pick something (not a Mt. please :) ) and I'll pray for it to happen, something reasonable, unlikely, but not "impossible"

Josh B)

Can I play?

I have something picked that I'd like you to ask God.

How about asking if the Book of Mormon is really true?

[JoshuaFKon]

<div class='quotemain'>

Pick something (not a Mt. please :) ) and I'll pray for it to happen, something reasonable, unlikely, but not "impossible"

Josh B)

Can I play?

I have something picked that I'd like you to ask God.

How about asking if the Book of Mormon is really true?

Hi Ray :)

(1) I already asked God about that.

(2) I said "not 'impossible'"

Josh

[Dr T]

Sorry but I did chuckle at that.

It would have to be something that cannot be subjective. It would have to be a clear indication that it was directly from God-that's why I picked a missing limb. Josh, isn't there something about "testing God" in the Bible. What does it say?

Dr. T

[JoshuaFKon]

Sorry but I did chuckle at that.

It would have to be something that cannot be subjective. It would have to be a clear indication that it was directly from God-that's why I picked a missing limb. Josh, isn't there something about "testing God" in the Bible. What does it say?

Dr. T

Fine, just for fun, pick something "not subjective" I can't promise anything...but what do I have do lose?

Why don't you throw out a couple of ideas...

Josh

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

What would God NOT do for us?

Stop extreme cruelty from happening to innocent little children.

I agree that God has not stopped some people from doing some very evil things to some other people.

But are you saying you think God WON'T EVER stop that???

... that there's NO way God has helped some other people in the past???

... and there's NO way God would EVER help others???

Maybe we just need to learn how to get God involved when we want God to do some thing(s) for us?

I'm willing to help you when I know you need help, but I don't always know you need help.

And sometimes when you need help and I know I can help you, you don't want to ask me for my help.

But I'm talking about very small children, who aren't old enough to even know what faith is. They don't know to ask God for help. IMO, God would help them if He could.

[Dr T]

I'm having a hard time finding something that is completely objective. Do you have any ideas?

Thanks

[StrawberryFields]

But I'm talking about very small children, who aren't old enough to even know what faith is. They don't know to ask God for help. IMO, God would help them if He could.

Although it pains us to see children suffer in anyway I believe that we don't know all of the answers here in this life.

Innocent people get hurt all of the time. I don't believe that The Lord like to see anyone suffer. Christ suffered for all of us and it was our Fathers Will. I would think that there were plenty who prayed for Jesus to be spared all that he endured but it wasn't meant to be.

[Dr T]

Hi Berry,

You are saying that "Whatever God wills will be done." We might not understand it now, but it will come to pass. Is that what you are saying? I would say that. I think God has plans and they will all work out to His own end. Is that a fair statement?

Thank you,

Dr. T

[LionHeart]

Thanks Berry,

I remember the discussion about "how to pray" but I don't remember if it came to a "what is it for" decision. Can/Is God swayed by prayer? I look forward to people's thoughts.

Thanks,

Dr. T

This is a very good question. Jesus said:

"Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? For your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things."

So one might ask: "If the Lord already knows what we need, then why must we pray for them?"

A saying that can partly answer this question is this: "God helps those who help themselves."

True; He knows what we need, but He also expects us to figure it out as well. We must put forth an effort on our part to find out what we need. Then we pray for it. If it is line with what our Heavenly Father has planned for us, He will grant it; providing our prayer is sincere and faithful. Only then can we truly appreciate it when we recieve the things we pray for.

Another purpose of prayer, according to my experience, is that it is an excellent way to get close to God. When my father passed away, my prayers were my only comfort. The opportunity to pour my heart out to the Lord and in return, recieve his spirit in such an abundance was a great comfort; and was very helpful in pulling through that time of hardship.

As far as growing the arm back, it is likely that the person's arm was ripped off for a purpose; likely an experience that person needed to go through. So growing it back might not be what the Lord has in mind.

L.H.

[Princess3dward]

Does anyone know of someone that is missing a limb? If so, lets do an experiment. Someone faithfully pray for that limb to return (here on Earth in the "here and now") and we can see if it returns. That seems like objective evidence. Do you really believe it will happen?

Dr. T

Okay...

I want chips to fall from the sky...

Can someone do that for me too?

Did you hear the bible story where a prophet told this king he was going to die soon, and than the king prayed that he wouldn't.. really praying... and then the prophet came back and said that he had 15 more years...

[Dr T]

Thanks L.H.,

Good reply. I have come to the conclusion that a big portion of prayer might be for us to be willing to accept God's plan for this life. It's about becoming subservient to God not trying to put ourselves before Him in our desires. I also like how you said it was a comfort to you. That is another good outcome from prayer.

Thanks again,

Dr. T

[StrawberryFields]

Hi Berry,

You are saying that "Whatever God wills will be done." We might not understand it now, but it will come to pass. Is that what you are saying? I would say that. I think God has plans and they will all work out to His own end. Is that a fair statement?

Thank you,

Dr. T

Yes.

[Dr T]

OK. Then when you pray, what are you praying for?

Thanks,

Dr. T

[StrawberryFields]

That depends.

As a general rule I usually...

I thank my Father in Heaven for my blessings.

I will ask for direction in my life.

I will ask for inspiration in being a wife and mother.

I will often pray for a quality I do not currently radiate. When I was a young mother I used to pray for patience...My Father in Heaven blessed me with a child who had colic.

When I almost lost my son to a tire accident two years ago,I pleaded for his life to be spared. We had our ward fast for his well being. It wasn't until months later when posting here at LDS Talk, did I learn that he was saved according the the Will of our Father in Heaven.

What do you pray for Dr. T?

[Dr T]

Hi Berry,

That sounds like a good prayer. You included praise of the Father. You thank Him for what has been provided to you. You petition Him for direction which seems to be a potentially selfless desire to honor Him. You ask for inspiration in life roles which you and God value and for growth. Well done (IMO).

My question about your example with your son (praise God for that) would be that if he (let it never be) that he didn't make it. Would you still say that it was God's will that he didn't?

As a child I would ask for things things selfishly. Now I would probably pray for similar things as you do. I would pray for my acceptance of whatever God had planned and understanding for following appropriately. I would ask that I be a good example to my children and a honest an devoted husband, employee and employer. I'm sure there are other things but I'm not a prayer expert. Jesus does show as an example that it is ok to ask for things like "give us this day our daily bread" I wonder what the extent of that would include.

Thanks,

Dr. T

[karrie91]

I believe Heavenly Father listens and answers every prayer, however I believe that when we dont like the answer we dont believe he has answered.

An analagy

Daddy can I have $10?

No.

Then you dont love me anymore.

How many have had a child or even a grown friend turn on you when they dont get what they want, and say youre not a good parent/friend. Isnt that the case when we pray and we dont get what we want the way we want it, then he's not a good God and he didnt care enough to answer the prayer. Sometimes the hardest answer is no.

[StrawberryFields]

My question about your example with your son (praise God for that) would be that if he (let it never be) that he didn't make it. Would you still say that it was God's will that he didn't?

I wish I could say for certain that I would feel that way but I have not yet lost a child. I would hope that I would feel that my son had completed his journey like I did when I lost my mom the year before. I very much appreciated the Lord allowing me to hold my mom as she took her last breath. The medical professional had allowed us to go into the ER room before they took my son to surgery. They let us go inside of the ER room to tell him Goodbye Forever. In retrospect I think I now know why I didn't realize my sons grave condition at the time. The initial shock of having a tire blow up in my sons face and then beating life flight to the hospital, had me in sheer panic. The trauma nurse came to me and asked if I wanted to truly help my son and I nodded. She told me to give my strength to my son. Immediatly, I began to do just as she mentioned and I lost myself in the love I sent to my son. I now believe that some prayers had been answered...prayers from other people praying for our strength.

Thank you for sharing what you pray for as well.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

What we believe the purpose of our life is, largely determines what we believe prayer is for.

I don't believe the purpose of my life is to experience as little suffering as possible.

I believe the purpose of my life is to grow towards my eternal potential. This requires me to suffer and grow through my responses to suffering. While pain and agony are harsh, unforgiving and often cruel teachers, I believe they teach lessons worth learning...lessons that can't be learned any other way.

"Praying in faith" has become a trite phrase focusing too much on the one with faith, and not on what their faith is in. I don't think having faith means merely "believing something will happen." It's having faith in someone, not something, and that someone is God. If we have faith that not only is He omnipotent, but all-knowing, then praying in faith will translate into asking for patience and strength to endure what He knows will benefit us in the end. In many cases, it will be asking for something He is already willing to grant us but that will only be dispensed when requested.

This requires feeling out God's will, being in tune with the Spirit, and gaining a sense of our life's purpose and potential. Pain can cloud our vision of these things, and I don't judge anyone who is temporarily blinded by the sandstorms of suffering that batter each of us at some point in our lives.

In the end, I believe prayer's uses are largely what 'berry described with a few additions:

~ Giving thanks

~ Asking for guidance/revelation

~ Requesting spiritual stamina

~ Repenting of imperfections

~ Nurturing a closeness with God which will hopefully continue after this life

My adopted sister from Thailand (who was mentally retarded) died of heart disease when she was 8 and I was 10. I didn't charge God with being apathetic for "letting it happen to a handicapped and innocent little girl."

About a year ago a driver had a seizure and rammed into my dad's car while he was driving to church, leaving my mother and I with a brain damaged shell of the man we both loved and respected more than any other man. I don't charge God with being apathetic for sitting smugly in heaven, armed with omnipotence while watching it happen.

The sting of suffering which is mine to endure lacerates the sinews of my spirit, and this is painful it is true. But I pray that the fibers of my soul will be stronger once Christ knits them back together with loving precision. Unchallenged people are largely undeveloped people, whether emotionally, spiritually or physically.

God has all power. God has all knowledge. Consequently, I pray with faith in Him and His perfect attributes, as I make my pilgrim's journey through this vale of sorrow and tears towards my eternal home.

[shanstress70]

SF: "Although it pains us to see children suffer in anyway I believe that we don't know all of the answers here in this life.

Innocent people get hurt all of the time. I don't believe that The Lord like to see anyone suffer. Christ suffered for all of us and it was our Fathers Will. I would think that there were plenty who prayed for Jesus to be spared all that he endured but it wasn't meant to be."

Dr T: "Hi Berry,

You are saying that "Whatever God wills will be done." We might not understand it now, but it will come to pass. Is that what you are saying? I would say that. I think God has plans and they will all work out to His own end. Is that a fair statement?

Thank you,

Dr. T"

AK: "I don't believe the purpose of my life is to experience as little suffering as possible.

...

My adopted sister from Thailand (who was mentally retarded) died of heart disease when she was 8 and I was 10. I didn't charge God with being apathetic for "letting it happen to a handicapped and innocent little girl."

...

God has all power. God has all knowledge. Consequently, I pray with faith in Him and His perfect attributes, as I make my pilgrim's journey through this vale of sorrow and tears towards my eternal home."

OK, you guys are making some good points, but what I'm talking about are small children. I didn't want to get all graphic again, but this stuff happens, so I'm saying it again. I'm talking about a small child who is raped and tortured and buried alive. I don't think that God wants anyone to suffer either, but if He had the power to stop this particular situation, don't you think He would make exceptions for cases such as this for small children? They can't be accused of not having enough faith, or making poor decisions as we adults sometimes do.

You think that God's plans include a small child being raped, tortured, and buried alive? I do not think that God would include that in His plan, which is why I don't think He has the ability to do anything to stop it.

And yes, AK, I know it's inevitable that we will have suffering, but I don't see why this applies to children who don't make the decisions for themselves. IMO, a loving God would not let these things happen if He has the power to stop them.

Everytime we get into this conversation, as we have numerous times here, we just go round and round and round saying the same things over again... myself included. So this is going to be the last I say about it. Just trying to explain why I believe that God does not have the power to intervene.

[StrawberryFields]

OK, you guys are making some good points, but what I'm talking about are small children. I didn't want to get all graphic again, but this stuff happens, so I'm saying it again. I'm talking about a small child who is raped and tortured and buried alive. I don't think that God wants anyone to suffer either, but if He had the power to stop this particular situation, don't you think He would make exceptions for cases such as this for small children? They can't be accused of not having enough faith, or making poor decisions as we adults sometimes do.

You think that God's plans include a small child being raped, tortured, and buried alive? I do not think that God would include that in His plan, which is why I don't think He has the ability to do anything to stop it.

And yes, AK, I know it's inevitable that we will have suffering, but I don't see why this applies to children who don't make the decisions for themselves. IMO, a loving God would not let these things happen if He has the power to stop them.

Everytime we get into this conversation, as we have numerous times here, we just go round and round and round saying the same things over again... myself included. So this is going to be the last I say about it. Just trying to explain why I believe that God does not have the power to intervene.

Shan,

I think this is the most specific I have heard you been on this topic. Thank you.

Now just a little about how I see this. I believe that our Heavenly Father see as always as His children no matter how old we are. I believe it to be this way because I also see this with my own children. Now that they are becoming adults and they get hurt it doesn't hurt me any less then it once did. Also, I believe that this life is just a blink of an eye in our eternal progression and in the Lords eyes.

You mentioned that these small children who go through difficult things don't have the chance to gain Faith and therefore our Father in Heaven wouldn't allow them to be hurt. I don't believe that we go through trials because we are being punished or lack in Faith in any way. I believe that trials are what gives us a pivotal point sometimes to make choices. I believe that trials are often not anything we have control over.

When Nick was injured two years ago he was just 17. He was employed to do a very dangerous job of tire busting. It isn't required by law that he be 18 or that he have any training to do the job he was hired for. Although he was a child, there were no checks and balances to protect him and as his mother I had no idea that the laws of the land didn't protect my child in the work place. As the story unfolded, we discovered about the lack of training, the tire-rim mis-match, and the protection of no-fault insurance offers the employer. I have felt robbed of any justice for my son. It pains me to see him have to suffer at the hands of others mistakes. Nick will always have lasting scars from the lack of responsibility of others. Why didn't the Lord place him just a few inches away from the exploding force of that tire and rim? Why are the laws such that protects those who should have been held responsible for their actions? Why did the employer seek an attorney to hold a secret meeting with OSHA to get out of a minor fine of 2000.00 for not providing a safe work environment with the promise of future training of employees? Life is not fair. We can only pray for the strength to endure what comes our way.

I used to be a very selfish, immature, judgmental person. I believe that I have had my share of trials but I have also had many, many blessings in my 40+ years. My trials have helped to refine me hopefully enough to live with my Father again. I want the same blessings for my own children and I need to remember that MY children are also HIS children and He loves them too.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

OK, you guys are making some good points, but what I'm talking about are small children. I didn't want to get all graphic again, but this stuff happens, so I'm saying it again. I'm talking about a small child who is raped and tortured and buried alive. I don't think that God wants anyone to suffer either, but if He had the power to stop this particular situation, don't you think He would make exceptions for cases such as this for small children? They can't be accused of not having enough faith, or making poor decisions as we adults sometimes do.

You think that God's plans include a small child being raped, tortured, and buried alive? I do not think that God would include that in His plan, which is why I don't think He has the ability to do anything to stop it.

And yes, AK, I know it's inevitable that we will have suffering, but I don't see why this applies to children who don't make the decisions for themselves. IMO, a loving God would not let these things happen if He has the power to stop them.

Everytime we get into this conversation, as we have numerous times here, we just go round and round and round saying the same things over again... myself included. So this is going to be the last I say about it. Just trying to explain why I believe that God does not have the power to intervene.

Shan,

I think this is the most specific I have heard you been on this topic. Thank you.

Now just a little about how I see this. I believe that our Heavenly Father see as always as His children no matter how old we are. I believe it to be this way because I also see this with my own children. Now that they are becoming adults and they get hurt it doesn't hurt me any less then it once did. Also, I believe that this life is just a blink of an eye in our eternal progression and in the Lords eyes.

You mentioned that these small children who go through difficult things don't have the chance to gain Faith and therefore our Father in Heaven wouldn't allow them to be hurt. I don't believe that we go through trials because we are being punished or lack in Faith in any way. I believe that trials are what gives us a pivotal point sometimes to make choices. I believe that trials are often not anything we have control over.

When Nick was injured two years ago he was just 17. He was employed to do a very dangerous job of tire busting. It isn't required by law that he be 18 or that he have any training to do the job he was hired for. Although he was a child, there were no checks and balances to protect him and as his mother I had no idea that the laws of the land didn't protect my child in the work place. As the story unfolded, we discovered about the lack of training, the tire-rim mis-match, and the protection of no-fault insurance offers the employer. I have felt robbed of any justice for my son. It pains me to see him have to suffer at the hands of others mistakes. Nick will always have lasting scars from the lack of responsibility of others. Why didn't the Lord place him just a few inches away from the exploding force of that tire and rim? Why are the laws such that protects those who should have been held responsible for their actions? Why did the employer seek an attorney to hold a secret meeting with OSHA to get out of a minor fine of 2000.00 for not providing a safe work environment with the promise of future training of employees? Life is not fair. We can only pray for the strength to endure what comes our way.

I used to be a very selfish, immature, judgmental person. I believe that I have had my share of trials but I have also had many, many blessings in my 40+ years. My trials have helped to refine me hopefully enough to live with my Father again. I want the same blessings for my own children and I need to remember that MY children are also HIS children and He loves them too.

Thanks for your thoughts on this... I sd I wasn't going to continue, but just one more thing to clarify...

Yes, God always sees us as his children, no matter our age. But, the reason I distinguish small children (and I'm talking infant until maybe 8 or so) is bc they don't know enough to make decisions. They depend ENTIRELY on us to make their decisions for them and to keep them from harm. If we don't do that, they are doomed... it seems like God would look after them when no one else will, if He was capable of doing so. Also, at the age I'm talking about, especially infant and toddler age, they don't learn to make choices from going through horrible things... however, sometimes the opposite is true and they will grow up to be abusive themselves or have all kinds of other problems in adulthood... that is if they live through whatever horrible thing happens to them.

What your son's employer did is horrible. So they did not learn anything from this incident and they will not train their employees or change anything so this doesn't happen again?

I hope Nick's treatments are still going well.

[Dr T]

Thank you all for letting me read your thoughts. A.K., great additions. I like the repent and relationship building additions-those makes sense to me. :)

Thanks again,

Dr. T

[StrawberryFields]

A promise was made to OSHA by Nicks employer and to my knowledge a formal training program has not been applied. His treatments appear to be working still thanks. :)

Growing up I had a brother who was 11 months older than myself. When he was seven he was electrocuted and died. My father tried to save him (cpr) at the scene while waiting for rescue services. For years after losing his son, my father held himself at fault, mach like you said it is the parents duty to protect their children. My dad started drinking heavily and my brothers name would evoke a great deal of pain so he wasn't mentioned much. I believe that our Heavenly Father could have saved my brother but his journey was completed. My mother also had a few misicarriages. I believe that each of us has a mission, or a story to accomplish. Although I am the earthy mother to my children I can not intervene in their story. I will do my best to advise and keep them safe but I can not always protect them in every part of their life. Our children have been given agency.

[Dr T]

Shan,

I don't know if you want to get it to this but my question from your posts makes me wonder if you are not only talking about other children that you see suffer by yourself. Did you have a really hard childhood?

Cautiously,

Dr. T