Hey Hey!

[prisonchaplain]

PC, you judged the 'Poster' very harshly - why should knowing who they were change what you said??? Would Christ have done that?

I'm sorry you felt that way. It was not intended as harsh judgment. It certainly does make a difference whether someone fairly new to the site tells another poster to leave, because she's too young to handle all us nons and antis, vs. someone who's been here for awhile, proven herself a caring poster, advising a newbie to consider other avenues. Additionally, imho, the PM was easy to misread, because you didn't know the poster very well.

I concur with several, including you, who've said this got blown out of proportion. I'll admit I got caught up in the bandwagon of folk who wanted to defend Desire from what appeared to be an invitation to leave. The string went for several days, with no word from the PM author, so it seemed even more suspicious.

Bottom-line: I like Desire as a poster. I've also appreciated and learned from some of yours, MrsS. Too bad this misunderstanding has led to many bad feelings. Please accept my apologies for my part in it. I hope you both end up staying.

[CaptainTux]

I think that in most cases, if you have problems with anti-mormons, and if they hurt you to the point where you can't feel the spirit, than you should go. Even I know that there will always be an anti here....

But more than half of my immediate family is anti too, so this is not the most threatening of places.

I have an account at mormonteen.com, but that site, I find is a place where a whole bunch of teens go to complain about dates, or lack there of... and some of the standards in the strength of youth booklet.

I am personally tired of saying the same "The prophet and God thinks it is important, so it is" over and over.

That is why I still post here.

You are exceptional for your age. You know what you want and why you want it. I do not know the exact stats, but most kids involved in church "fall away" sometime between college and 25 years of age. They were so sheltered in the sub culture that they were never properly equipped to deal with life on the outside. I immersed myself in the subculture in my mid teens and stayed there until I was 20 and took a job at a car wash. I was ill prepared for life at the car wash...let alone life in a secular college.

I know that Mrs S meant no harm in her advise to you. I think you have handled yourself well and I hope you continue to stick around.

[insertwittynamehere]

Thanks Dancergirl.

Dr. T,

Dancergirl is completely right. We're not at all counseled to hide from the world, we ARE counseled though to not argue and debate with a spirit of contention. I think that happens all too often on this board and I think whoever told Desire to leave was right (in saying that there is a lot of argue and debate with the spirit of contention). I do not mean to offend anyone so please, no one take offense, but she does have a point and it is something we all need to think about. And on the contrary, Dr. T, we are even asked to share the gospel with others like you stated a past president said. We just know that only through the spirit are people converted so when we get heated about what we're talking about, nothing is getting accomplished. The only success coming from a situation like that is Satan's success over our temper.

I just wanted to add a little bit to what dancer said.. she's completely right.

insert

[CaptainTux]

That sounds like a decision for the young girl to make on her own or with the aid of her Bishop, parents, or other appointed leaders as to her ability to conduct herself on the forums, not for another person, who quite frankly, is as argumentative as quite a few of the folk on this forum.

[StrawberryFields]

Mrs. S you need to be where you feel comfortable. I went to the site you suggested and it appears that they have run our Winnie G. off from that site. I have learned so much from Winnie and if she isn't 'good enough' for them then it is their misfortune. I personally feel that with your experiences you can teach us all a lot.

I have seen where you have recently called out the moderators on somethings. It is a fine line we walk in keeping this site the way Heather likes it and going overboard. I personally don't read every thread for the same reasons John Doe mentioned. There are certain things that will set me off and other things which set other moderators off. We need everyones input because we need to know what others find offensive. When something is brought to our attention we try to discuss these things in the moderator form or where you summit the 'reports'. We are not perfect, and we are all volunteers as moderators.

[Dr T]

Hi Insertwittynamehere,

I hear what you are saying. I think it is a copout however, whenever a good argument is levied and it makes someone uncomfortable and they run to the, "This is a discussion of contention and therefore of Satan!" While I understand the gravity of religious belief and the core value that it has for many, since people base their lives on their beliefs, it just seems like something that people should interact with/ponder/wrestle with and see where the justification for that belief lie (if any). If someone told me-don't wrestle with your beliefs-walk away from critical thinking I would have to wonder what is the real reason for not engaging? Is it because they really don't stand up to scrutiny? Does calling it, "of Satan" give a real reason to not even try to justify belief or is it just a side-step to keep people sheltered? I took no offense to your post-please don't take offense of this one.

Thank you,

Dr. T

[Princess3dward]

I agree [if I understood your point right. I always seem to get things wrong].

If I was born in the church, and never got to question anything, I would be outta there by now. That is what happened to my dad.

I am glad I know a lot about anti beliefs, and I am glad I know how to get the answer to every question.

[lisajo]

I for one am tired of hearing the word... Non-Mormon, What ever happenend to being a good example? comments like these make our church and people look stuffy and very rude. no one else is better than another. Being an LDS member we should be a good example of our faith to those of Other relgions and our own. I have had very few problems from those who are not LDS here but i have had more from those who are Lds, (most of them are long gone from here now) It makes me sad to see this! This site is not an offical site of the LDS church, there for if some of the stuffy LDS don't like it then why are they here?

[boyando]

Hi Insertwittynamehere,

I hear what you are saying. I think it is a copout however, whenever a good argument is levied and it makes someone uncomfortable and they run to the, "This is a discussion of contention and therefore of Satan!" While I understand the gravity of religious belief and the core value that it has for many, since people base their lives on their beliefs, it just seems like something that people should interact with/ponder/wrestle with and see where the justification for that belief lie (if any). If someone told me-don't wrestle with your beliefs-walk away from critical thinking I would have to wonder what is the real reason for not engaging? Is it because they really don't stand up to scrutiny? Does calling it, "of Satan" give a real reason to not even try to justify belief or is it just a side-step to keep people sheltered? I took no offense to your post-please don't take offense of this one.

Thank you,

Dr. T

Dr. T

Is the Gospel of Jesus Christ up for debate? Is he or she who is best at qouteing scripture, the winner?

I'v known you but a little time and have seen compasion and love from you that is with out measure, when someone has been hurt. I believe you to be a good man. I do not however agree, that there is any thing that you can call a "good argument". If you are truly seeking the truth, I think patience might be your best friend.

Let me give an exsample. Through out the years and even untill today, there has been rumors that Mormons have horns. Our President Faust was hit with that questoin not to many Years ago. His rebutel was that he was glad that he still had a full head of hair to cover his horns. I on the other hand, am not so sure if I would not be tempted to belittle some one with such a crazy question. By trying to make some one feel stupit, I put out that light that burns in me. The light of the Gospel.

Many times I have written rebutel's to your questions, only to erase them, because of the spirit that I have had in writting. And yah, that part of it is of satan. Some day I hope to be a little bit more like President Faust. Untill then, please don't let my anger, hamper you in your search for truth. I promise you that if you keep honestly searching, it will pay in the end.

Your friend - allmosthumble

[Guest MrsS]

The string went for several days, with no word from the PM author, so it seemed even more suspicious.

I have been ill- I could read, but when it came to typing, the fingers and the brain would not come together. I am on a stronger pain med - stole it from Husband (800 mg, taking two and eating soda crackers, lemonade and peanut butter to help it get into my system. -not quite a migraine, but nasty just the same) I can not get in to see the Dr. for another three weeks and I don't feel this is ER time (not at $75.00 a whack my co-pay)

Bottom-line: I like Desire as a poster. I've also appreciated and learned from some of yours, MrsS. Too bad this misunderstanding has led to many bad feelings. Please accept my apologies for my part in it. I hope you both end up staying.

Thank you - I do like the people here for the most part. One person who I really miss is Ray - as aggravating as his "In Other Words got" - I miss him.

[Dr T]

Hello allmosthumble,

Thank you, Sir, for the kind words. Is the gospel up for debate? Even if only internally, I would say "yes it is." Just as ethics, moral systems, philosophy, politics, or any discipline of study ought to be. I like your posts AH. :) I love reading your ideas. I look forward to more. Patience is def. a good thing. Have I been read as not being patient? If so, I apologize to you for that.

Dr. T

[CaptainTux]

Dr. T

Is the Gospel of Jesus Christ up for debate? Is he or she who is best at qouteing scripture, the winner?

Is the gospel up for debate? Yes, it is. The question, however, should not be "who wins?" but who loses?

If I cannot provide the validity of my faith in Christ, I may not be allowed to practice said faith if the Gospel is written off to have as much validity as the A*Teens (which we all know should have never happened). More importantly, if I enter into debate with a skeptic, what happens to him or her if I lose the debate from not knowing my facts or sheer cowardice of conflict? They walk away with the whispers of lies still in their head. What cost can you place on the life of one soul? It was worth the life of the son of God. That soul that just walked away was worth a blood sacrifice. The life that was shed for that man was NOT without passion. In anger, He turned over tabled, He called the leaders a brook of vipers, whitewashed walls, and full of poo. He stood toe to toe with those who would insult him sometimes and even asked a woman (who just asked for His aid) why he should do something for a mere dog like her. Passion and zeal for truth and a willingness to mix it up a bit is not without it's precedent. Debate over the Gospel was pretty much a third of Paul's journeys in Acts. Sometimes with his own life in danger.

[john doe]

Mrs. S said:

John Doe - you said that I took you post out of context -

Actually I said you misread my intentions in the post. I did not mean for you to think my words were pointed at you specifically.

you quoted PC's remark:

QUOTE

By all means, if you feel you are weak in the faith, bury yourself in your own faith tradition, and move to a ocmmunity where nearly everyone is like-minded. Sometimes small worlds do feel safer.

I happen to agree with this statement. OK you are agreeing with PC's statement where he is saying that I am weak in the faith. Some of the discussions here are not for the weak-minded or weak of faith. Did I ever once say that I was weak-minded or weak of my faith?

Sorry, but maybe I missed something in PC's post. I didn't read where he said you, specifically, were weak in the faith.

In rereading your post, I see that it really can be taken several ways. I am leaving my added remarks where they are so you can see how I took them. I also want you to know, John Doe, that I believe you did not mean this in an accusatory way.

Thank you, Mrs. S. I have enjoyed reading your posts and the passion that you show in your faith in doing so. I hope you can forgive me for any misunderstanding we may have had, because I certainly did not mean any insult to you. I value your views and hope you choose to stay.

[Guest MrsS]

Thank you, Mrs. S. I have enjoyed reading your posts and the passion that you show in your faith in doing so. I hope you can forgive me for any misunderstanding we may have had, because I certainly did not mean any insult to you. I value your views and hope you choose to stay.

Thank you for your words. I ask you for your forgiveness too -

[begood2]

Thank you - I do like the people here for the most part. One person who I really miss is Ray - as aggravating as his "In Other Words got" - I miss him.

Ok, what happened to Ray? I don't want him to leave either. Someone please fill me in.

[StrawberryFields]

Thank you - I do like the people here for the most part. One person who I really miss is Ray - as aggravating as his "In Other Words got" - I miss him.

Ok, what happened to Ray? I don't want him to leave either. Someone please fill me in.

Ray is been trying to break his addiction to this message board for a long time. Maybe he will succeed this time. :)

Here are his stats.

Active Stats

User's local time Oct 9 2006, 06:45 AM

Total Cumulative Posts 4,314

( 3.4 posts per day / 5.64% of total forum posts )

Most active in Gospel Discussion Board

( 2010 posts / 66% of this member's active posts )

Last Active 3rd October 2006 - 02:05 PM

[Gwen]

well, take a weekend off! lol i agree with others that this has been blown way out of porportion, however, that doesn't mean that there is nothing to be learned from it. it seems that this has brought out a lot of feelings, pos and neg.

let me say that i apologize to mrs s or anyone else i offended. it does make me chuckle, i have been told i am nice to a fault and i thought that is how i responded to this. because i can't speak for anyone esle, i'm would like to point out some things that i said that might clear up why i was shocked by the referece to me calling anyone weak.

in a post to Des i said,

"Yes you are young, and yes you sometimes seem to be confused or not have all the answers.

i would caution you to not respond to every post or every person.

if you can't resist the urge to respond then it may be best to leave so as not to place yourself into the deceptions of the adversary. but if you choose this choose it for your best good, not because someone who thinks they are better told you to leave (note: the accusation was made before i read the pm and was going off assumptions made by the feelings it left Des with)

ponder carefuly, you are a daughter of God and therefore are a princess who diserves all the wonderful things your Heavenly Father has in store for you. Follow him, not the toungs of deception to be found in the world."

honestly mrs s i thought those statements were somewhat in agreement with you, that des needed to be careful, she is young, she is impressionable. i just chose to approch it differently, that is all.

after reading the pm.....

"the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

lol

be aware of who we are and our strengths and weakness.

if this person feels the spirit has left because of feelings and words here, i'm proud of them for having the personal insite to be aware of their weakness and act on that knowledge. if they feel they must tell us first, freedom of speach, go for it. what i think, this may have even been done out of concern for des and it didn't go well. so if it were me i think i would come out here publicly apoligize for the unintentional hurt, say my peice and never return. that simple."

the first thing was meant to be a humorous way to say i thought you meant well. sorry it that was not clear. this is a statment i frequently ask myself when saying something that means well, is this what i need to say or is it the road. lol

in my opinion anything that removes the spirit from my life is a weakness to be prayed upon by satan. you said the spirit left. i was saying that i was proud of you for knowing yourself. i again accknowledge that it was done out of concern (in case it was missed before) countering my privious post when i didn't have all the facts. i then stated what i would do.

i am glad that you are willing to apoligize on your terms, by no means do i set the terms of someone elses choices.

i thought i was being nice, so i again apoligize for any inconsiderate comments that put me on that 'road' that i avoid traveling.

ALmom

[begood2]

SF,

Thanks! I know that Ray has said that before . I personally enjoyed him as a member and I knew that he had been posting up to October 3rd.

Ray, Desire and Mrs. S for me you're all part of the LDSTalk family and I want you to all stay. I'm sorry if anyone or anything has upset you.

I have a big heart and a big hug for you all.....(well maybe a handshake for Ray since he is a guy. )

Because, in my view, "Families are forever"!

[Princess3dward]

I really miss Ray aswell...

[insertwittynamehere]

Hi Insertwittynamehere,

I hear what you are saying. I think it is a copout however, whenever a good argument is levied and it makes someone uncomfortable and they run to the, "This is a discussion of contention and therefore of Satan!" While I understand the gravity of religious belief and the core value that it has for many, since people base their lives on their beliefs, it just seems like something that people should interact with/ponder/wrestle with and see where the justification for that belief lie (if any). If someone told me-don't wrestle with your beliefs-walk away from critical thinking I would have to wonder what is the real reason for not engaging? Is it because they really don't stand up to scrutiny? Does calling it, "of Satan" give a real reason to not even try to justify belief or is it just a side-step to keep people sheltered? I took no offense to your post-please don't take offense of this one.

Thank you,

Dr. T

Dr. T,

I take no offense to your post whatsoever. I actually pretty much agree with you. I have personally never used a discussion being "of satan" as an excuse not to discuss. I completely agree that discussion is a good thing and pondering and critical thinking are essential to our faith. In fact, this is exactly what we are counseled to do to find out for ourselves what the truth is and develope our own personal testimonies. No true testimony can be a testimony without personal critical thinking and pondering. I'm completely for this. What I simply meant in my post was that not all cases are like this. We all know that there are some whom purposefully come on this site just to provoke a fight. Those are the discussions I stay out of because they are discussions out of the spirit of contention, not honest curiosity or anything of a positive sort. A sitation like that IS of Satan and those are the situations I personally try to stay out of and think most people should.. I think if we all were to do that, we would save ourselves a lot of stress, frustration, and anger on people who dont even want to hear our side but only want us to hear theres. THAT is handing our temper over to Satan and thats what I was speaking of. Also, I metioned that we as Latter-day Saints know that only through the spirit are people converted, I would like to second this. Even in discussions where one does honestly want to learn but there are belief differences, the moment we get angry, we lose the spirit. When we dont have the spirit, we arent able to teach successfully. There are ways to discuss without getting angry when others disagree. I do it all the time and I'm sure there are a lot of others in the world that do as well. We have members on this board and all kinds of other boards.. and we've also got 52,000 missionaries out there that are doing it. Thats all.

insert

[Princess3dward]

<div class='quotemain'>

Hi Insertwittynamehere,

I hear what you are saying. I think it is a copout however, whenever a good argument is levied and it makes someone uncomfortable and they run to the, "This is a discussion of contention and therefore of Satan!" While I understand the gravity of religious belief and the core value that it has for many, since people base their lives on their beliefs, it just seems like something that people should interact with/ponder/wrestle with and see where the justification for that belief lie (if any). If someone told me-don't wrestle with your beliefs-walk away from critical thinking I would have to wonder what is the real reason for not engaging? Is it because they really don't stand up to scrutiny? Does calling it, "of Satan" give a real reason to not even try to justify belief or is it just a side-step to keep people sheltered? I took no offense to your post-please don't take offense of this one.

Thank you,

Dr. T

Dr. T,

I take no offense to your post whatsoever. I actually pretty much agree with you. I have personally never used a discussion being "of satan" as an excuse not to discuss. I completely agree that discussion is a good thing and pondering and critical thinking are essential to our faith. In fact, this is exactly what we are counseled to do to find out for ourselves what the truth is and develope our own personal testimonies. No true testimony can be a testimony without personal critical thinking and pondering. I'm completely for this. What I simply meant in my post was that not all cases are like this. We all know that there are some whom purposefully come on this site just to provoke a fight. Those are the discussions I stay out of because they are discussions out of the spirit of contention, not honest curiosity or anything of a positive sort. A sitation like that IS of Satan and those are the situations I personally try to stay out of and think most people should.. I think if we all were to do that, we would save ourselves a lot of stress, frustration, and anger on people who dont even want to hear our side but only want us to hear theres. THAT is handing our temper over to Satan and thats what I was speaking of. Also, I metioned that we as Latter-day Saints know that only through the spirit are people converted, I would like to second this. Even in discussions where one does honestly want to learn but there are belief differences, the moment we get angry, we lose the spirit. When we dont have the spirit, we arent able to teach successfully. There are ways to discuss without getting angry when others disagree. I do it all the time and I'm sure there are a lot of others in the world that do as well. We have members on this board and all kinds of other boards.. and we've also got 52,000 missionaries out there that are doing it. Thats all.

insert

I think that if we didn't awknologe their threads, they would come herass us in other ones.

[Dr T]

I hear what you are saying Insert. Thanks :)

[Blessed]

Hello all, it has been a great long while since I have posted on here. Just thought I would wave to everyone.... hoping someone remembers me. ;-)

[StrawberryFields]

Hello all, it has been a great long while since I have posted on here. Just thought I would wave to everyone.... hoping someone remembers me. ;-)

Hey Blessed!!

It's great to see you

Do you still talk with Jenda? Still in Alaska? What's new?

Your Friend, SF

[Blessed]

Hi SF!!!

Still in Alaska, not much new. SStuffDD. I haven't talked to Jenda in a while. Isn't she still here??