Defending The Faith...brother D's Rant!

[Brother Dorsey]

When I initially found this site I thought "Cool, a place to come and discuss my faith, church doctrine and the like with other LDS". But this hasn't been the case....it seems like most everyday someone of another faith comes here to put in their two cents and basically tell me what I hold dear to my heart, my faith, my church is wrong. So, I feel I have to defend myself and my beliefs....I really have no problem doing that but it seems so redundant as no one can really prove faith, that's why it's called faith. Here's a true story: Not long ago a missionary once told me of a man (who lives in a coastal town in Oregon) who was searching for a church to join and he did years of research. This man had read every single piece of literature about the church he could find both for and against, he had read the standard works over three times, he read the Comprehensive History of the Church by BH Roberts, and even the entire 9 volumes Work and the Glory, every church pamphlet, every church book, saw every church video, etc. (I must add that this is a very learned man, he has several degrees)...but yet he hadn't ever been to church, hadn't ever prayed to ask for the truth....he was seeking it in books....he was looking for proof. Although he said that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was the only one that came close he still wanted that proof. Until that man gets on his knees in humble prayer he will never know the truth....ever. To those posters who have the agenda of trying to tell us we are wrong, that our faith is wrong.....please understand that most LDS have had their spirits touched by the Holy Ghost and the truth was made known, clear and precise. And to us, to deny that truth would be to deny God.

Okay....here's a couple of questions for all posters:

My question is how did you find what you believe to be the truth....regardless if you are LDS or not ?

Do you believe you can defend your faith and how far will you go to do so?

[Princess3dward]

Do you believe you can defend your faith and how far will you go to do so? Although some people will argue different about me, I believe I can defend my faith... as soon as I learn better communication skills

I didn't anwser the first question because I did what you said in your paragraph.

[shanstress70]

I try really hard not to get into arguments about faith. Mostly, I post on the general discussion section so that I can avoid this. When I first left the LDS church I felt I needed to do this in order to defend my decision. But in time I became totally comfortable with it and no longer felt that was necessary.

I TRY to only do this is when I'm told by someone that I'm wrong and God has told them that I'm wrong, etc.

I will make an even bigger effort to not argue about faith.

Good points, Bro. Dorsey!

As far as your questions go, how did I find what I believe to be truth? I just believe what makes the most sense to me, or what is most rational. However, I realize that part of any religion is irrational.

How far would I go to defend my faith? Not very far, bc to me religion is a very personal issue. If you don't believe what I believe, more power to you. No one can prove who is right, so we'll find out one day!

[prisonchaplain]

please understand that most LDS have had their spirits touched by the Holy Ghost and the truth was made known, clear and precise. And to us, to deny that truth would be to deny God.

Here are my random thought responses:

1. Sometimes the best ideas come out of rants.

2. Whether Jews becoming Christians (i.e. Jews for Jesus), 'unbelievers' becoming 'believers,' or yes, even LDS becoming something else -- by far the most fertile ground for converts is amongst the inactives, the disgruntled, and the unconverted members (some join, but never belong).

3. I've cited this book often (Snow recommends it): How Wide the Divide: a Mormon and an Evangelical in Conversation. In it the authors show how to be respectful, where the divide is not so wide, but ultimately, they both (an evangelical and a Mormon scholar) that we will rightly continue to seek to convert one another.

4. Personally, I find a sincere presentation of another religion invigorating. (This guy actually cares about God and about getting it right!)

5. Generally, what is offensive is the combination of ignorance and arrogance.

6. At minimum, we're all God-seekers, so respect should be our default stance.

Okay....here's a couple of questions for all posters: My question is how did you find what you believe to be the truth....regardless if you are LDS or not ? Do you believe you can defend your faith and how far will you go to do so?

1. Faith did find me. Church workers came into our neighborhood offering candy, balloons and Good News. Parents said I could go, and at 10-years of age I went, accepted the offer of salvation, and never turned back.

2. 'Defending the faith,' sounds so 20th-century. Seriously, I'm seldom called upon to justify my faith. When I'm teaching inmates how to witness, I tell them they really need two basic tools to get started.

A. A testimony. How did you come to the faith, and what is the key aspect of your life that has changed since. BTW, best to be able to tell the story in less than five minutes. Nobody argues with personal stories. They may say, "That's great for you," but the story has been given.

B. For the interested, a couple of simple explanatory Bible verses (the Word shall not return void). I like John 3:16 and 1 John 1:9.

When people ask questions, I try to answer them. Usually, the best "prep" is simply an on-going conversational relationship with God (daily and spontaneous prayer). Developing that ability to hear the still small voice of the Spirit. Also, regular Scripture reading gives the Holy Spirit material to plant in our mouths when those opportunities come.

I think that covers Bro. D's questions. :-)

[Guest MrsS]

When I initially found this site, I thought "Cool, a place to come and discuss my faith, church doctrine and the like with other LDS". But this hasn't been the case....it seems like most everyday someone of another faith comes here to put in their two cents and basically tell me what I hold dear to my heart, my faith, my church is wrong. So, I feel I have to defend myself and my beliefs...

I feel/ felt the same way, Brother Dorsey.

I really have no problem doing that but it seems so redundant as no one can really prove faith, that's why it's called faith.

<<snip the good story – thanks Brother Dorsey – I liked that one>>

Okay...here’s a couple of questions for all posters:

My question is how did you find what you believe to be the truth...regardless if you are LDS or not?

I was 8 years old when my oldest brother discovered the scouts and Dad said that he had to find a better troop than the neighborhood one ( it was full of hoods and bullies). I don’t know how he found the LDS troop – undoubtedly through a classmate. Brother is 8 years older than I am. Anyway – I couldn’t follow him to scouts, but I could follow him to church! Brother and the two older sisters were baptized, thus I had listened to three sets of Discussions. This was back in the early 1960’s. I was baptized at age 14.

So I have been involved in the Church since I was 8 – parents were not members – they didn’t belong , i.e. were active in any Church, yet they were supportive of us kids going to any church we wanted to. Helped us to read the Bible, tried to explain and answer our questions, etc. When I was 18 I left the Church – the reasons were stupid and the story is veeerrrry long. I never stopped believing, I just stopped living the commandments. Drank the no-no’s, smoked, did pot, did Rx drugs, did mescaline. (only did the drugs for about 3 months – but it was enough for me to know I would never do any of it again!) Got hooked up with a very non-Christian dude and thought that if I loved him enough I could love him into loving Christ. Yep, I was sooooo naïve. After 29 years I learned he wasn’t going to love me, or God, he just loved himself, the alcohol, cigs. and his one night stands. I came back to Church and left him at the same time. I have been active in Church, I am remarried to a Worthy Temple Recommend holder, Active HP, loving and oh so very spiritual man.

The Spirit of Elijah is what brought me back to Church, and the prayers of my family, and the love of my Home/Visiting Teacher Couple. For 26 years, I had the same couple ‘assigned’ to me – and I love them dearly. They are my Adopted Parents/ Best Friends/ Brother and Sister.

The Spirit of Elijah – about 2 years before I left the ex, I became obsessed with making contact with my relatives. I interpreted it as my living relatives. As a youth, we lived in the same neighborhood as my mother’s two brothers and their small brood. We were 7 children, they were only 3 each = small! I was old enough to baby sit my cousins, and then as they grew – to play with them. Take them to the zoo, Saturday matinees, etc.

I spent a year tracking them down and asking how they all were doing. Then I received a package from my youngest brother’s wife. It was my Mom’s genealogy paperwork. In it were letters to her cousins and in-laws. I started writing to them. What resulted was I received nearly an apple crate of family group sheets, pedigree charts, marriage, death, divorce, and court papers. On my Mom’s family and on my Dad's. This brought me back to Church – I really can’t explain it all – it is just that one day as I was reading the court papers where my mothers mother and her husband had taken her deceased daughters husband to court to get legal custody of their grandson. I knew I had to go back home to Church. Odd isn’t it? The husband was living with the local prostitute and her four illegitimate kids. Grandma wasn’t about to let her grandson be raised by a hooker and the nere’ do well that her in-lust daughter married. Thus the court trial. Grandma & Grandpa Sam got custody, and this prompted me to get myself back to Church!

Do you believe you can defend your faith - - -

I will not defend my faith, religion, the Church, or the True Gospel of Jesus Christ; because I know it needs no defending. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can stand on its own against all of the anti’s, against all that satan has tried, will try, and does try to do to it. I was taught that rather than defend our faith, it is better to Bear (Bare? which spelling??)Our Testimonies. (Side bar here – with that in mind, go back and re-read the majority of Ray’s answers. What he has been doing is bearing his Testimony. Often he is repetitious, to say the least – but it is his testimony and who are we to mock it??)

I too am so tired of explaining and then explaining yet again about my faith. I am soooooo tired of listening (reading) to the LDS members explaining and then explaining yet again. I am fed up with non-LDS members questioning every blessed thing we say, most especially the mundane and non-relevant things. They do not read the references we post, or if they do, they do not acknowledge it. They go to the anti sites and believe every vile word that is written there, and then tell us that we are lying, or denying the truth. I simply cannot understand why no one will go to lds.org and read what is there! Or go to mormon.org and read, and then still believe the anti sites ranting. As per the wonderful story you told Brother Dorsey – they too, are looking for the easy answers. When it comes to religion, faith, commitment to a faith – there are NO easy answers.

Being LDS is not easy. It is one of the hardest religions to live. It is NOT a Sunday only religion, or Sunday and holiday only religion, or when you are born and then die religion. It is 24/7 – it is an entire way of life. At 14 I didn’t understand that. 30 years later I most certainly did. When I came back into activity – I did so with both eyes open, with full understanding and with great willingness on my part to uphold my baptismal covenants.

Because of the decades of alcohol consumption, I have memory loss. I personally do not remember my own baptism – I have had to ask my family to relate to me what conspired. It is like listening to a story, I know what happened, but only because my family has told me. I don’t remember much about seminary or mutual. I had to be reintroduced to my teachers at my old ward. Once I have met them and talked with them a bit – I am able to recall some things.

When I became active again – I related all this to my Branch President. He asked the senior missionaries to give me the new member lessons. After those lessons I was given the Gospel Principles lessons, then I joined the adults in the Gospel Doctrine class.

I will never have all of my early church memories, nor will I ever have all of my “lost” memories. I really don’t want all of them. When you have ‘danced with the devil’ as I have AND survived – you really don’t want to remember everything.

and how far will you go to do so? I will heed what the First Presidency states in For The Strength of Youth – pg, 12 Choose your friends carefully. They will greatly influence how you think and act, and even help determine the person you will become. Choose friends who share your values so you can strengthen and encourage each other in living high standards. A true friend will encourage you to be your best self.

To have good friends, be a good friend yourself. Show interest in others and let them know you care about them. Treat everyone with kindness and respect. Go out of your way to be a friend to those who are shy or do not feel included.

In conclusion ~ there is too much contention on this board. Not everyone is being treated with kindness and respect – the non-LDS and the anti’s do not take into account the religious age of the posters. They question in depth those who are babes in the Mormon faith, and not enough of the LDS members are defending these new in the faith. IN MY OPINION I believe it is because they (the antis and non-LDS) have the perfect victim – someone who is so new in the Church, yet who are so very passionate about this new faith of theirs. It really is a one sided battle. The poor newbie LDS defending away, getting Gospel Principles mixed with Gospel Doctrine, and because they are so new they are mixing up the unique Mormon lingo – and the anti’s and non-LDS just jump on this, twisting words around to suit themselves and their own agenda.

For those of you who are not of our faith, who have stated that you came here to find the truth. That is all well and good, I believe we ALL are searching for the Truth and the Light of the Gospel. But could you please be clearer and honest in your definition of Truth.

I am here because I am looking for persons of my religion to converse with. To have points of the Gospel and the Scriptures explained a bit fuller to me. To share my insights, thoughts and joys with-in an LDS environment. There NEVER is enough time to visit at Enrichment Night, or the Pot Lucks, or when the VT/ HT come to visit, or after the block at Church.

These internet forums are ideal for visiting. As long as the anti’s are kept off, and the boards moderated. This could be a great board if it enforced its Terms and Rules, and if the members adhered to those Terms and Rules and also to the Article of Faith 11 We claim the aprivilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the bdictates of our own cconscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them dworship how, where, or what they may.

And in Article of Faith 13 aWe believe in being bhonest, true, cchaste, dbenevolent, virtuous, and in doing egood to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we fhope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to gendure all things. If there is anything hvirtuous, ilovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/a_of_f/1

These are my thoughts – good or bad – they belong to me.

[Jason]

Mrs.S,

What you and many other LDS fail to understand is that many (but by no means all) of the anti-mormon arguments are quite valid. Not only that, but the apologists "answers" for those questions satisfy none but the already faithful. Jeff Lindsay's website is not there to satisfy the questions of the anti's, but to hopefully keep the faithful in the church.

So many people keep asking: Why do the anti's continue to ask the same questions over and over again. It's because they have not been answered in a way that can honestly silence the critics!

Frankly, Im a bit disappointed with some parts of your post. The gospel of Jesus certainly needs no defense, but the fact of the matter is that I've yet to encounter a Church on the planet that actually teaches and practices the gospel of Jesus. To my knowledge, none has ever existed. I think everyone is missing the real picture.

Anyway, I know that I get labeled "anti" on occasion, and I certainly hope that I can dispel that label with my occasional defense of your church. Mormonism is a great religion, and works well for many people. I'd like to see a few things change, but I'd like to see things change with every church and every religion I've come across.

Anyway, I hope you have had a great sabbath, and that you'll have a great Sunday tomorrow.

Peace.

[Guest MrsS]

That is your opinion Jason, and yes, more often then not you are anti. and that is My Opinion.

[Maureen]

MrsS,

From your post, I'm getting the picture that because you chose to leave your good life in the LDS church and venture out into non-LDS territory and find only heartache and a depressing life, you associate your experience in life as, therefore everything that is LDS is good, and everything that is non-LDS is bad. From your life perspective I can see why you would see it that way. But that is not the case in everyone's life. There are good non-LDS and LDS people out there, and there are bad non-LDS and LDS people too. To project your life's view on new baby Mormons can be just as bad. You are limiting their choices and ability to choose what is right for them. You are telling them it not good to make mistakes, but that is how we learn, by our mistakes. Good influences can come into our lives from members of all religions. To have such a narrow view as yours of what is good and bad is very sad, and that is your choice to make; but telling a very young member of the LDS church that she should follow your example of attitude against non-members is actually being a bad example. I truly hope that as you go through life and meet people of all walks of life that you would be more fair in your judgement of them.

M.

[Princess3dward]

I don't think she NEEDS to associate with them to much anymore.

She isn't surrounded as much by them [just an impression I got].

By all means, if I could just get away from it all, I would...

but I can't until I am old enough.. so on those grounds, I feel there is no point in me leaving, because my mom and my sisters are all anti, and a lot of people I go to school with are anti...

It is easier to talk to anti's here, than in person...

and when I do see them in person, I am better off because I know what to expect.

Them as in anti's.

I have no problem with non-LDS.

[Guest MrsS]

Maureen,

You know nothing of my life- my trials and tribulations. You do not know my life within the LDS church. My parents were not members. if you had read what I had written you would have seen that my oldest brother introduced us all to the church in the '60's. Mom and Dad were not members then, Mom joined the the late 80's. She did the proxy work for Dad.

I think we all are guilty of judgeing here.

[CaptainTux]

Okay....here's a couple of questions for all posters:

My question is how did you find what you believe to be the truth....regardless if you are LDS or not ?

Do you believe you can defend your faith and how far will you go to do so?

Fascinating queries.

How did I find Jesus? A very long story, I may tell it here one day. Suffice it to say that a polio survivor with a deformed body who stood about 4 and a half feet tall become a giant to me in 1986. I met a man who had a harder life than mine who was not cynical, bitter, and jaded. He set the example for me.

Do I believe I could defend my faith? Yes. Apologetics and debate is fascinating to me. I willfully engage in such activities often. Can I prove it scientifically? No. Can a prove it as a lawyer proves a hypothesis in civil court? Yep.

How far would I go? I would willfully relinquish my own life or that of my family before denying faith and that is not something I say lightly. Would I assault another? Nyet.

As far as your main issue. I suggest you read the community standards and enjoy the gift you have. When you remove terms like anti, them, and us...you may just find fellowship here.

[Princess3dward]

I find you very interesting Captain....

I think it was what you said here:

"I met a man who had a harder life than mine who was not cynical, bitter, and jaded."

I wonder why that hit me like it did... :hmm:

[Brother Dorsey]

As far as your main issue. I suggest you read the community standards and enjoy the gift you have. When you remove terms like anti, them, and us...you may just find fellowship here.

Ummm....I have a wonderful fellowship here...besides, where in my post did I say "anti", "them" or "us"? Anyone? anyone? anyone? Bhueller? Remember thou shalt not bare false witness......

If you read my post correctly you can see my main issue as you call it is those who come here to attack my faith and put that faith down and call it wrong. As far as I am concerned anyone who comes here to tell me that what I believe is wrong, that my faith is unfounded and I will burn in hell have no right and are in violation of community standards....and I am talking specifically about non-LDS and anti-LDS (because who else would it be?) A member of the LDS church wouldn't so it would have to be an anti-LDS which is also a non-LDS and when I compose a post that specifically talks about "those" people or "them" I think all others here know whom I am talking about.....please understand, I have nothing against you or what you believe...you are welcome to it....I'm not going to put it down or tell you you are wrong because it's right for you...However if an another attacks my faith then I will label them as anti-LDS and treat them accordingly. This board is not for trying to convert Mormons....it is not to be used as a place to ridicule anothers faith and if it be a persons reason for coming here I will defend my faith and have them kicked off.

[Princess3dward]

"This board is not for trying to convert Mormons...."

Some people seem to have a hard time understanding that.

A lot of people seem to come where with those intentions...

What I always remember when I am talking to someone who thinks my faith is stupid, is I always remember an experiance I had, like my baptism, or the orange [maybe I will tell you that one later, or blog it].

They can not like my faith, but they can't change what is true, and they can't change experiances I had.

They can try, but they can't do it.

[lisajo]

I think we have a few to many paranoid LDS here that think every one who is not LDS on this site is bad or anti!

[CaptainTux]

I think we have a few to many paranoid LDS here that think every one who is not LDS on this site is bad or anti!

That reminds me of what my doctor told me the other day. He sat me down and told me that the good news is that I am not paranoid...the bad news is...well, everyone IS out to get me.

[Princess3dward]

[CaptainTux]

Ummm....I have a wonderful fellowship here...besides, where in my post did I say "anti", "them" or "us"? Anyone? anyone? anyone? Bhueller? Remember thou shalt not bare false witness......

If you read my post correctly you can see my main issue as you call it is those who come here to attack my faith and put that faith down and call it wrong. As far as I am concerned anyone who comes here to tell me that what I believe is wrong, that my faith is unfounded and I will burn in hell have no right and are in violation of community standards....and I am talking specifically about non-LDS and anti-LDS (because who else would it be?) A member of the LDS church wouldn't so it would have to be an anti-LDS which is also a non-LDS and when I compose a post that specifically talks about "those" people or "them" I think all others here know whom I am talking about.....please understand, I have nothing against you or what you believe...you are welcome to it....I'm not going to put it down or tell you you are wrong because it's right for you...However if an another attacks my faith then I will label them as anti-LDS and treat them accordingly. This board is not for trying to convert Mormons....it is not to be used as a place to ridicule anothers faith and if it be a persons reason for coming here I will defend my faith and have them kicked off.

A mere extrapolation from other data gleaned from other posts. I do not usually play the micro quote rule. In a social circumstance one does not say.."On 4/23/06 at 4:21, you had said...blah blah blah words words words." Not any fun. If I maligned your thoughts in any way, please consider it an honest error not warranting of sarcastic reply...in other words, like Earth, I am mostly harmless.

I will agree that to come to a Mormon centric site to insult a Mormon makes about as much sense as someone running into Chevy/'Vette fest in Chicago, register, buy a ticket, etc just to run to the middle of the showroom and shout "Chevy ######, Fords rule!" then laugh and wet yourself. However, you will find that in pretty much any forum you will see this behavior. I mod a few Linux sites and I see people come in to distro bash and run. Go to a Star Trek site and you will see Star Trek haters. The best you can do is to report violations and rude behavior to a mod and put offensive people on ignore if the forum software has such a feature.

Those are what is known as trolls. They go to forums and make a lot of noise and bug people for the express purpose of getting a rise out of you. The phrase, don't feed the troll means to ignore them.

I dunno know why people hate Mormons. Some people do. They consider you dangerous and icky.

I will tell you this about the house that Heather built. The LDS members here have answered the tough questions I had here forthrightly and honestly without the sugar coating the missionaries or the host families of the missionaries gave me. I respect that.

I am not LDS, but I have gained a new respect for the LDS because of this site and the friends that I have made here. Some of these people are people that I would like to meet in person one day. Here is the kicker about the whole anti thing. Some of the people that have been labeled "anti" here are some of the ones who have helped me develop a respect for the LDS and consider them to be my brothers and sisters. Not really sure where I am going with this. I am rambling.

Cheers

[CaptainTux]

I find you very interesting Captain....

I think it was what you said here:

"I met a man who had a harder life than mine who was not cynical, bitter, and jaded."

I wonder why that hit me like it did... :hmm:

I think the reason is this. The world is full of cynical, bitter, and jaded people. It is rather a pandemic we are in.

You have to be an optimist.

Idealism is easy, living it is hard.

I envy the innocent idealist. Someone like Jimmy Stewart's character in Mr Smith Goes to Washington has to be who he is. He knows nothing else.

Me? My dad took off when I was 4. Not too uncommon, but it set the stage for my addict mother to marry a man when I was nine who thought it was okay to beat women and children. I left that environment when I was 13 to live with my grandparents barely human. Getting through that and somehow recreating a human being from scratch (long story there, suffice to say I decided to have a personality and the lie eventually became me). I would learn to love and eventually marry a great woman who grounded a wild child with a chip on his shoulder. We had Jess and Jess would be diagnosed with a heart defect at 3 months old. We almost lost our marriage over that. It was a hard road back. In the last 4 years I have had three critical surgeries not knowing if I would either come out of them or have a full recovery. A recent neurological condition has given me a time clock to fight to do what I feel I need to do. Dance at my daughters' weddings and run one marathon to completion.

I could go on. Suffice it to say life has hammered me and in my path I have seen the worst humanity has to offer and the worst I have to offer has always been held at bay. If what I have experienced was all there was for me, I would not be able to go on. Life has to be better than this, society has to be better than this, we as a culture have to be better. There is an ideal. Being an idealist gives me a goal, a target. Even if I never see it, at least I aimed for something. At least I gave my last breath clawing and scratching for it never giving up hope that it is there. At least I lived my life on the high road and left this dump a little cleaner than it was when I get here in 1970. At least I (hopefully) will have inspired my daughters to be greater than the sum of her parts and know love and have a strong foundation laid to build whatever kind of life she wants for herself.

My, that was pretty frelling cathartic. Sorry 'bout that.

Cheers

[BenRaines]

Capt Tux, well said and a continued welcome to you. Nice to see you back.

I too believe that how we see life is a good part of how we live life.

One of my favorite poems is the following:

Two men look from behind prison bars

One sees the mud the other the stars.

Ben Raines

[Maureen]

Capt Tux, well said and a continued welcome to you. Nice to see you back.

I too believe that how we see life is a good part of how we live life.

I agree with Ben. Considering what you've been through CaptainTux, you have a wonderful attitude and outlook on life. It's nice to have you back. :)

M.

[CaptainTux]

<div class='quotemain'>

Capt Tux, well said and a continued welcome to you. Nice to see you back.

I too believe that how we see life is a good part of how we live life.

I agree with Ben. Considering what you've been through CaptainTux, you have a wonderful attitude and outlook on life. It's nice to have you back. :)

M.

Thank you both. Thanks to all that have welcomed me back.

There are days when a positive attitude and faith that God will get you through another day is all you got. We all battle fear and darkness and insecurity all the time. Tomorrow will happen regardless and yesterday is already done. I know too many people, both in and out of the church, that allow their past to hinder their future.

This week I had days I could barely walk and one day I played football with some friends. I made three receptions (two for first downs), recovered a punt for 20 yards, and blocked two receptions. Today my six year old and I went mini golfing. She made par on 3 holes and won 100 tickets in the arcade for a stuffed bear worth about a third what we spent winning it. Those two days are gifts from God. The days that my wife takes her to the park and I have to stay behind may be bad for me, but they get time together...another gift. I get to be told the tales of monkey bars and who she met from her class at the park. Had I been with them, who would she have to regale the stories of adventure to?

When I read 2 Corinthians 4:8, 9 I hear God telling me to keep getting up every time I am knocked down. No promise I will not get knocked down again. When I watch Firefly, I am told that "When you can't walk, you crawl, and when you can't do that, you find someone to carry you."

Life goes on. The only question that remains is if you are going to live the life or merely survive.

Yeah, I been thinking a lot the past few months.

[Princess3dward]

it set the stage for my addict mother to marry a man when I was nine who thought it was okay to beat women and children.

I hate that. I didn't know abuse was abuse until I was in highschool, and CAS visited me... again. My mother told me they were nuts, and to ignore their phone calls... She also told me to lie to them. It makes me very mad eapecially that children don't know that what is happening to them is bad.

[Dr T]

What is "CAS"?

[Princess3dward]

What is "CAS"?

Childrens Aid Society.

They anwser calls on abused children, and interview the children without telling the parents, and then confront the parents and basically (are supposed to say) fix this or you will lose your kids.

They only REALLY do anything after someone dies though.