Progressive

[Snow]

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650198872,00.html

You may or may not agree with the ladies' points, and I don't know who hosts the conference/forum, but I think that it is very encouraging that the Chruch-owned Deseret News reports on the issue

[babygirl]

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650198872,00.html

You may or may not agree with the ladies' points, and I don't know who hosts the conference/forum, but I think that it is very encouraging that the Chruch-owned Deseret News reports on the issue

i think people read way to much into what the prophets have said about that...My mom had a hard time with it herself untill someone showed her what the talk really said. It doesnt say you HAVE to be a stay at home mom to be a good LDS woman. it advises you to stay home with your children unless absalutly nessisary. in this womans point and my mothers it was. they needed to work to support there family. what the prophet was advizing is that if you are already well of and can support your family well with just your husband working then do that, instead of the woman also working so they can afford a boat or a summer home. that is becomeing more worldy and not so much concern for the whelfare of there children...

it is sad to me that so many people dont understand that, that the mother has to work. there is a difference between have to and she just wants to. but some people dont see that

If that made any sense, sorry sometimes my mind thinks faster and i dont know how to say what im thinking

[sunny_surfer]

i totally agree with the above post...i mean my mother works and im definatly dont consider myself some lost deprived child because i didnt have a parent at home. I think a mother has as much right to work then a man.

[pushka]

I agree with Sunny Surfer that a woman has as much right to work as a man..no matter what the circumstances.

I don't think a woman should only be allowed to work if it is absolutely necessary..it should be her choice.

Also, what happens if that fairytale marriage in which only the husband is working falls apart, and that perfect stay at home mother has never learned any skills for working...then they would have to rely on welfare, which I get the feeling a lot on this forum are against being dependent upon.

[Dr T]

What about a "stay at home dad"-same responses? Just curious.

Dr. T

[pushka]

Yes Dr. T. each parent should have an equal opportunity to either work or stay at home and look after the children.

[Dr T]

I thought you would say that Push. I was wondering if, internally, that was looked upon differently by people on this site.

Dr. T

[shanstress70]

It was looked at unfavorably by my local LDS church, I have to say. My husband lost his job when I was pregnant. We made the decision that our child would be home till he was at least 3. I was progressing at my job, about to have a huge promotion, with a lot more money... so it made a LOT more sense for my husband to be a SAHD than it did for me to quit my job, especially when the job market was so bad with layoffs galore.

We were active LDS at the time and I cannot tell you how many times people made comments like, "We need to get you a job, Brother XXX, so your wife can stay home the way God meant for it to be." I also had women in church sympathizing with me for having to work. When we told them this was a choice we made, it's like we were from another planet or something!

[StrawberryFields]

the problem I have with the article is the topic "They addressed the topic "How Well Does the LDS Church Support Real Mothers," What does that mean, stay at home mothers are not real mothers?

I was with my children while my husband worked for most of their years in school. It was fine and I am grateful I was able to do so but I also lost myself so to speak. My identity was tied up in being my childrens mother and my husbands wife. At the time I bought it and gave myself away to my family. I will encourage my daughter and daughter in laws to continue to grow as a woman.... To have an identity outside of what is expected in the 80's for mothers. I think things have changed some over the years. Some of what happened to me was the doing of a well meaning husband as well. I wanted to be a teachers aid in the art department after all of my children were in school. I would have the same schedule that they had for school but my husband wanted to be the supporter and didn't really understand my needs for me needing more. I now work part time for my own needs and not as a support for our family, he is okay with that.

My daughter in law will soon have her degree in accounting after which they will start a family. She is planning to do work for some businesses from their home.

[Dr T]

We have been blessed to allow my wife to stay home with our children (until she is ready to return to work). She often gets the other side of the coin. People often say things like, "Oh, you don't work" and look down their noses at her. She used to want to say, "I have a lot of education and training" but now she just smiles and says, "no I stay home with my beautiful children." :)

Dr. T

[Winnie G]

This is another case that makes me wonder what the hack goes on down there in the lower 48???

Dr. T our home teacher is a stay at home Dad. Its economics, his wife has more skills that are employable. I think his self-esteem is taking a kicking and I know his wife has put the presser on to be a stay at home mom but I do not see that happening any time soon.

He is over educated in one small field and little to no employment.

It is like being a sociology major looks good but in less, you are going to teach you had better find a day job.

I also feel the church puts undo presser on its men to be the sole breadwinner.

As the cost of living rises, he is still the only sole provider, but encouraged to be at home by six for the happy family.

I have always worked up until a year ago.

I have to admit I would have loved to be home and be there for my children 24/7 but that is not what I was blessed with. Most of my adult life I have been a single mother or might as well been single raising four children.

The men and women of the church always supported me.

Priesthood holders took my sons on father son outings and I always had home teachers that were more then once a month visitors. Birthdays were never missed, and rarely did I have to go to them for a need that they did not already prepare for.

When my children were approaching ages of baptisms or priesthood ordinations they step up, taught, and prepared my sons.

Members know how hard I worked and were not only kind but went that extra mile.

I have not been anywhere in Canada that stood firm in this Molly Mormon mind set and pressured it into the membership. Yes is seen as an ideal but is not always reachable.

When called as young women’s president years ago I was told by my bishop to encourage education first then Temple marriage. He said the divorce rate even with in the church, was high and getting higher. Young women need to be encouraged to educate them self and continue to up grade as wives and mothers. I locked horns with an YW stake president over this she sang a different tune when I sent her to visit our bishop.

I told my YW that they could be anything they wanted but the goal of motherhood should be held in reverence, the most important calling for women. Fatherhood should also be held within that same reverence.

Are fathers less important then motherhood? I say no and were their support?

We as women can do both but I have to say there were times I felt like a cat on a hot tin roof. Dancing as fast as I could. I think the church understands women and sees what challenges we put in to our lives. If anything the church knows that, a working mother has special needs and some have little or no support from spouses and wear out in the end.

Right now, my son-in-law is a single father raising my two granddaughters.

He is now doing that hard dance but with help from our family, he is doing a good job. We are so proud of him. We also have high hopes a nice Mormon women will see him for the wonderful man he is and be willing to shoulder his important job of fatherhood.

[Dr T]

No argument here Winnie. :)

[rosie321]

I like this new topic. I 'm glad to see people talking about this .

These are some of my random, scattered thoughts- for whatever they are worth:

There is balance in all things. The gospel helps to balance it out.

Women should not be discouraged from work especially with its encouragement of large families. As others brought up what happens if a spouse suddenly dies, gets sick, the relationship becomes abusive, loss of job, or there is a divorce.? I think that the women should be trained and be able to go out and work if necessary. "if you are prepared ye shall not fear. "

The church frowns on women working outside the home but the world frowns on people not working outside the home.

Didn't the Proverbs women work? That women was full and complete. I don't think this takes away from the male roles as given by Heavenly Father or minimize a women. Can't it be a loving thing to want to help out your spouse too? To support him in as much as is within your power? Especially if without children or with older ones?

While I believe the ideal place for the women is more the nurturing environment of the home and that children really need to have a secure, stable, nurturing home base to work from. The reality is that people really do need to be prepared for all circumstances. In this sinful day and age we are seeing a bigger gap between the ideal and the reality people live in every day. If the ideal picture for the different life circumstances is not more clearly painted then more good hearted sisters may be lost. Not having the proper gospel vision for life circumstances could put sisters in some pretty desperate situations or in a position to be scammed. Examples might include all the home business opportunity scams or assuming much debt.

Faith is wonderful but I believe that our church leaders do have an obligation to see that people have the temporal skills and information needed to really survive and apply the principles to their life. This is where I personally would like to see more focus as the church expands. I can really see where some would really feel let down and discouraged by the gap in what the world expects and the church does. I think that there is a balance out there. How can the church better encourage or strengthen members in accomplishing what is asked of them? The world of work increasingly calls for things that would be challenging to live out gospel principles. How can we adequately handle it? The church does a wonderful job of painting the gospel ideal but what about the temporal wisdom filtered through gospel eyes that people need to?

As in the article I wish that there was more female leadership too, or I guess strong examples for women. That it was more pronounced and not just having to always be translated through the male leadership. People really do need strong leadership roles and the church does an excellent job for the males but women also have vital roles to play in the church and society (regardless of priesthood leadership roles). Strong examples need to be strongly emphasized, supported and encouraged by the priesthood. Given the keys to really do these things. (I do feel that President Hinckley has defineately made efforts in this direction and relief society is being pushed this way more and more thankfully- although the prophet series while good, takes away some of the issue/topic time which women really appreciate).

Both sexes are so unique. It would be nice if we knew more about Heavenly Mother(s?) and her/their example. She/they deals with Heavenly Father and watches the children running around in trouble. I'd definately be interested in that. There's just certain things that men really can't express or understand in the same way. After all Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus To best illustrate this ask a man to describe an event and then ask the women. You'll get a totally different picture.

There are things that men will just never have to experience or see the same way. Everything is so male oriented it gets frustrating for the females who do not fit into the typical boxes or want more respected female examples.. Its like everything has to be translated through the LDS male experience to the ideal female experience down to the those not in the ideal situation. Women defineately are treated worldly inferior and just underlings by the church at times. When Christ spoke of the family structure he instructed men to love their wives as Christ loved the church. The church family should have the same respect towards one another. It doesn't mean that women still do not need to look towards their husbands/priesthood. Its based on love. Far cry from the show my dominance air that men sometimes protray that appears to go beyond what the gospel intended.

I can also see the frustration in the example that a male needs to be present in the building. While I understand if there was just one female maybe safety issues. Or would be a problem for just anyone to have access. But if given to a responsible female or with church leadership approval to insure accountability and gospel ideals. What would be the problem? The sisters in that story were just trying to live the gospel better. No mention was made of inappropriate behavior or conduct. Yet it was taken away because of some technicality? Don't we get enough pressure from outside the church? Do these seemingly unnecessarily rules serve more of a burden then a help to people just trying to live out the gospel? To me the church should be a welcoming place encouraging of positive growth. If little things like that will help people get to the next step then what is the problem? Why do we seemingly push people outside of the church in their most vulnerable moments? Isn't it our job to strengthen people and encourage them during those times?

Other thoughts-

In all fairness I also feel for the males who fit outside the norm. I know some in the that boat. It isn't easy for them either. I truly wish people would leave the judgements up to God and let people work out what is best for them and their family.

Is it Heavenly Mother or mothers?

[sunny_surfer]

okay well im going to put in my two cents here as well as add some comments to this topic since i think it is really important, I would also like to note that i was born into the church and am still active,I thought i would mention this since what im about to say may hold some critizism.

I full heartedly believe that there is a lot of pressure in the church and its members, when it comes to serving a mission, getting married, and having a family. This is the same when it comes to the roles that the men and woman are suppose to play in the family house hold. I fully support the idea of a woman going out in the work force and expanding her skills and talents to better her family or the world. I personally think that the line has to be drawn when either parent, woman or men decide to place there career ahead of there family and thats where i think the real damage lies. I personally think that the members in a church or any other place who say that the man should be working and the mother should be at home obviously has some prejudice views towards the sexes, And frankly know nothing about the priesthood or about the gospel. Marriage in my opinion is a partnership and loving relationship which consistes of TWO EQUAL personages, under God to maintain and strengthen the gospel in the family. I challenge anyone to get a verse out of the gospel that states that a men needs to the bread winner and the woman needs to stay at home, the only times that has been said is by the general authority and even they have not forbidden a woman to work. Although a parents we look to the general authority as a guide we must aslo note that they do not have direct authority over an individuals house hold. for example if the prophet came into my house i would have a direct authority to ask him to leave since he hold no authority under my home. In short it is between you and GOD, no other person has a right to tell you how to maintain you home i mean if a man was physically unable to work how would the family survive? through well fare? no way. I say they have all the right to expand there skills in the work force just as a man has a right to do so. I mean if you say the woman has to stay home they its not an equal marriage is it? and that my two cents that im probably going to get heckald for.

[rosie321]

I challenge anyone to get a verse out of the gospel that states that a men needs to the bread winner and the woman needs to stay at home, the only times that has been said is by the general authority and even they have not forbidden a woman to work.

A lot is drawn from tradition. Woman have been presented as the "weaker vessel. " as mentioned in scriptures. The Bible as is translated and passed down really does paint women as lesser beings. The choice to eat from the tree in most belief systems was not part of the plan. Historically women were no more then possessions. The view has not always been historically one of equal or team.

Necessities and legalistics. Lets face it traditionally we did not have the conveniences that would enable a women to work outside. Woman for convenience sake (EG. nursing the young) filled the role of staying home and fulfilling their God given command. Be fruitful and multiply.

Men in scriptures were commanded to work and provide for their families. So they have always stayed in that role.

As far as verses and what might give the impression mixed with tradition and necessities

Here are some to get you started.

Genesis 2:16-19

1 tim 5:8

D&C 25:8

1st Corinthians 14:33

Ephesians 5:22

There are others I'm sure. Those were ones that popped out in my mind.

I think these non traditional issues can be very concerning for women in the church. (men say women are confusing :) ) How far do you take things in this day and age when necessity often dictates something different from what you are getting at church? Where do you begin to cross gospel lines? Here you have this traditional biblical view ingrained that women are lesser and need to be submissive. That we bear the children. Then we are told that we are to be one. The two shall become one. Which indicates that both are a complete person and =. (maybe different roles). We can do whatever. Then there is the priesthood which women have no part of. The priesthood concept itself tends to put women in the lesser category. Some women innocently don't understand why they cannot do some of these things, especially if they have no priesthood in their home or family. It can be confusing as to what is ok and not. What is proper gospel truth and understanding or not. What can or cannot be done. Why you can't just get what needs to be done done.

I think women in general would appreciate having things clarified and more accessible to everday understandings now. The roles and the worldly environment seemed to have changed so much over the years. We need tools to deal with the here and now. Sometimes, as much as I respect the church, it seems like we're using 19th century or bible time tools in our 21st century world. While useful at that time. I can't help but feel that we need to know how to work in our modern technological generation. Not enough has been done, in my opinion to specifically lead women through these role changes in my humble opinion and through observation. To really clarify and explain. To get women the tools they need to be an effective wife, mother, and LDS of today. As before the womans role has changed immensely in our society. Men's has not changed much. I would think that with the modern day leadership we would have more direction in this matter. Just my humble opinion.

[Dror]

When I was a kid, our bishop encouraged my mother to work!! Of course, we would have starved otherwise, and slept on park benches. (He didn't want to use sacred fast offerings to support us too long.)

I think it all depends on the circumstances, and that what the Church leaders are trying to get across is that it is best, insofar as possible, for parents to be available for their children and to raise them, instead of having babysitters or day care centers do it. It would be nice if working mothers got the support they need from the Church, because heaven knows, it's not easy raising children or working, much less doing both!

Dror

[sunny_surfer]

I challenge anyone to get a verse out of the gospel that states that a men needs to the bread winner and the woman needs to stay at home, the only times that has been said is by the general authority and even they have not forbidden a woman to work.

A lot is drawn from tradition. Woman have been presented as the "weaker vessel. " as mentioned in scriptures. The Bible as is translated and passed down really does paint women as lesser beings. The choice to eat from the tree in most belief systems was not part of the plan. Historically women were no more then possessions. The view has not always been historically one of equal or team.

Necessities and legalistics. Lets face it traditionally we did not have the conveniences that would enable a women to work outside. Woman for convenience sake (EG. nursing the young) filled the role of staying home and fulfilling their God given command. Be fruitful and multiply.

Men in scriptures were commanded to work and provide for their families. So they have always stayed in that role.

As far as verses and what might give the impression mixed with tradition and necessities

Here are some to get you started.

Genesis 2:16-19

1 tim 5:8

D&C 25:8

1st Corinthians 14:33

Ephesians 5:22

There are others I'm sure. Those were ones that popped out in my mind.

I think these non traditional issues can be very concerning for women in the church. (men say women are confusing :) ) How far do you take things in this day and age when necessity often dictates something different from what you are getting at church? Where do you begin to cross gospel lines? Here you have this traditional biblical view ingrained that women are lesser and need to be submissive. That we bear the children. Then we are told that we are to be one. The two shall become one. Which indicates that both are a complete person and =. (maybe different roles). We can do whatever. Then there is the priesthood which women have no part of. The priesthood concept itself tends to put women in the lesser category. Some women innocently don't understand why they cannot do some of these things, especially if they have no priesthood in their home or family. It can be confusing as to what is ok and not. What is proper gospel truth and understanding or not. What can or cannot be done. Why you can't just get what needs to be done done.

I think women in general would appreciate having things clarified and more accessible to everday understandings now. The roles and the worldly environment seemed to have changed so much over the years. We need tools to deal with the here and now. Sometimes, as much as I respect the church, it seems like we're using 19th century or bible time tools in our 21st century world. While useful at that time. I can't help but feel that we need to know how to work in our modern technological generation. Not enough has been done, in my opinion to specifically lead women through these role changes in my humble opinion and through observation. To really clarify and explain. To get women the tools they need to be an effective wife, mother, and LDS of today. As before the womans role has changed immensely in our society. Men's has not changed much. I would think that with the modern day leadership we would have more direction in this matter. Just my humble opinion.

I do believe that some of the traditions in the bible you cant do in modern 21 first century, i mean it was tradition in moses time when he crossed the desert to stone a person who had an affair, and also tradition to sacrifice animals to God. BUt we certainly dont do that anymore. As for the fact that eve took the fruit and not adam, anyone who understands the gospel would know that taking of the forbidden fruit was indeed part of Gods plan, mainly because if it was not for the eating of the forbidden fruit then the plan of salvation would not have worked or existed at all. Even though woman have been portrayed as the weaker sexes in the past and in biblica times does not make it true, I mean for crying out load if anyone asked a guy to give birth i bet you no guy could stand up to the pain. We also have to understand that God made all personages equal under his creation and and they all have the full rights and blessings just as anyone else, regardless if they have the priesthood available or not.

[pushka]

I do believe that some of the traditions in the bible you cant do in modern 21 first century, i mean it was tradition in moses time when he crossed the desert to stone a person who had an affair, and also tradition to sacrifice animals to God. BUt we certainly dont do that anymore.

Unfortunately in some countries they do still execute men and women for this reason and others...granted, they are not Christians that are doing it.

[CaptainTux]

The issue is not just the views of leadership, be it LDS, A of G, Baptist, Lutheran, etc etc etc . Many of these faiths leaderships and official dogma do not prohibit women from working, but there are still attitudes in the Christian circles that exist within the bodies of believers.

I have seen single mothers take flak, I have seen working families take a few jabs, I have seen some other judgmental action on a more personal level.

For 12 years I have been married o the greatest gift God has ever given me. For six years now I have enjoyed the greatest gift God ever gave US, our daughter.

Prior to dating my wife I became a born again Christian in 1986 and cut my teeth in the Assemblies of God. When I graduated High School I went to a good charismatic Bible College as a pastoral studies major. I had completed two years of my studies and then I went and quit Bible College....long story...maybe I will tell it someday. I then met my wife and she grounded me and completed me like I have never thought possible. We would get engaged and become married. The man who performed our wedding was a fellow student from Bible college and he was starting a church planting project near our home. Given a second chance in life I had signed on to be his associate pastor. Standing at his right hand we were building something special that is still thriving today and about to get a new building to accommodate their growth.

My wife had graduated college Suma Cum Laud with a degree in Finance and was enjoying herself in a pretty entry level position with a Fortune 50 (50, not 500) company. She loved what she was doing. To accommodate my duties at the church(which really had no money to pay either of us much at the time) I was working at a car wash (flexible hours, closed at dusk, etc). Then came the talk. My friend and my pastor told me that my wife had to be more like his wife. She was not working and raising the kids. She was leading ministries in the church. My wife enjoyed helping setting up chairs and unloading vans on Sunday's, she loved proofreading our newsletters and editing programs, but she felt no call to spiritual leadership. Being a good worker bee was not enough......for him. As far as her job. She was moving up the ranks swiftly and we had no children of our own living with us. Who cared that she made more than me? We lived well below our means in a little one bedroom apartment. I told him I saw no point in her taking on leadership and no point in her quitting just to silence the critics. He then put it to me in an ultimatum. I gave him my set of keys and walked away.

Over the years she would continue to move up and I would end up working my up through ADP as an account executive, then a few other companies moving up the ladder till I took an offer at up and coming telco company to be VP of sales and marketing.

During this time my wife got her Masters and we had our daughter. My mother was watching our daughter while we worked until shortly after 9/11. Personal depression threw her back into the arms of old friends and chemical dependency. So we put our little girl in day care. About a year into it she started becoming very aggressive. We were concerned, and then the nightmare happened. One of the children of my boss who was also at the daycare was found to have been repeatedly abused by one of the daycare workers. She was finally caught when another daycare worker saw her literally drop the boy on his head. When all was said and done there was circumstantial evidence that she may have done this to other children in the daycare. Even if it did not happen to my daughter...she saw it. Sadly we will never know.

Now comes the discussion between my wife and I. She was swiftly heading towards a director level and loved what she did and I was pretty burnt out. The higher I climbed the ladder, the more cynical I got, the higher she climbs, the more of a difference she makes. We made the decision that I would become a stay at home father.

My in laws think I am an idiot with no motivation living off my wife and eating bon bons all day. My church refuses my help during the day for they think I should be seeking employment. I have a neighbor across the street who is always trying to tell me who is hiring.

Now here is the other side of the coin. My daughter's aggression went away rapidly. She is an ace at school and has amazing social development. I am involved in the PTO, yes it is mostly women but my different way of looking at things has added so much to it. I go to school board meetings and ask questions that the school board is not ready to deal with and they cannot side track me for my biz know how is superior to most of the mortals in that room. I teach intro to computers once a week to advanced ESL students at the local Hispanic heritage chapter. One single mother has had her life changed by passing a MS Office cert test and getting a job at an insurance company now being bi lingual with computer skills. I volunteer once a week at my daughter's school and make a difference there. I do volunteer work at the Village hall and make a difference. My wife? There is more to her than just moving up the ladder. The initiatives she has made has drastically reduced her companies attrition level. She has done this by making her company a more family friendly place knowing that happy employees will be productive employees. She also added silly things. An office will close for a day to go canoeing or golfing and stuff like that. Other companies are now beginning to adopt some of her policies. If she is still working there in 5 years, she will be a VP and you will be reading about her in magazines.

Our daughter is stronger and we are both making a difference in the world. I do write professionally and do public speaking engagements on Linux and corporate espionage and computer safety and some months that makes and extra 5k, other months it makes and extra $400, and still other months (most of the time) it makes us nothing. The Lexus is now a Ford Escort that does not always run the way it should. But I am also building a solid reputation in two interesting circles.

This step back has allowed me to collect myself and change some of the directions I have in life and do some things I never would have...or could have before. These opportunities have led to some interesting possibilities. Should one of these possibilities lead to one of two fascinating-as well as lucrative directions-my wife and I have already discussed switching roles and she would gladly do it if one of these two opportunities ever became a reality. I can, and do pursue them in the directions and choices I make, but the closing of the deal is in God's hands.

The switch is not because this is how families should operate or because of the voices of the fools who judge us and refuse to see the good that lies in our circumstance. It is because she sees the enrichment in my life and the changes that have occured and she would like a taste of that and she would like to see what our daughter does in the day...she also would like to see me be happy vocationally which is something she has not seen since we first got married.

I have yet to b given convincing argument that what we have chosen to do is detrimental and outside of God's calling for our life.

[Winnie G]

It would be nice if working mothers got the support they need from the Church, because heaven knows, it is not easy raising children or working, much less doing both!

Again, I shake my head and wonder how much if at all the church is different out side the States?

I have always felt support from the church as a single working mother and later as a married (working) mother.

Its not like I did not hear the encouragement to start a second family with my new husband back then but those were those who did not know physically four was all there was going to be. It was also understood I would keep working. Our bishop never said a word to us as we meet with him before our wedding.

He Meet with us every week leading up to our wedding.

I did have one sister soon after my divorce criticize me severely for working and dating when my children were still young. She was bitter over her husband’s actions and their divorce. They had six children one a newborn. She discovered her husband baby shopping with the “another woman” in the baby department of a local store. Yes a real winner.

I told her that staying on welfare was not for me, my children were not going to grow up thinking their livelihood came in the mail box once a month. She also thought my dating was ill advised. I understood she still had raw feelings and bitterness over her divorce but I did not hold such feelings. I was moving on with my life. She thought I should wait until my children had grown. She also back up her thoughts with biblical quotes. She even turned me in to our bishop. The bishop and I had a nice chat and he understood my marriage was over years before and asked if I was behaving myself did he have to worry about me?

He laughed when I told him at this point men were stake dinners and movies for now. I had no interest in remarrying ever.

I called her back and told her my dating was not her concern and I understood her anger and bitterness. She of course denied that she felt that way.

I said “Come on if I hit your husband with my car mounted him like a deer on my grill and dropped him on your front lawn you would come out of the house and would dance around him poking him with a sharp stick”!

Maybe it is not such a big thing for women in the church to work out side the home in Canada but there are few that I know of that feel they have the right to impose their feelings on those of us that do.

In all, honestly I envy those who are and have the luxury of being able to stay home.

I do not think my children would have turned out any better. Their not perfect but nether am I.

I have seen the Molly Mormon and Peter priesthood familys have their share of children that have problems. It all boils down to the effort put in to their children and then its a crap shoot.

My children saw very little of me at times but they know I loved them. Meals were made ahead, lunches packed; some with little notes in them telling them I loved them and I know life was not easy for them.

They know I know and that was what was important.

Recently when I was feeling very down about my self my eldest son now 29 made the comment that he know how hard I worked baxk in those days and yes a lot went on his shoulders but he never once did he think he was not loved.

[sunny_surfer]

well i gotta commend you on your stand winnie, i mean it can be very easy for a single mother with children to live on child support and stuff like that. I really do commend the single mothers out there that sacrifice a bit of there time with there children to give them a better life. As for the differences i find that american LDS here are a little to uptight about certain issues such as the role of parents in a house, kinda take everything so literal.

[Winnie G]

Sunny shurffer

Child support I wish I have never received any child support that was not garnished.

He still owns me $48.000 dollars. He has always worked under the table and what I do get is from his tax return.

Yes I do find American LDS (Idaho and Utah) are a little uptight as well, the ones that move up here take a while to unwind. I became good friends with a sister from Utah who kept calling all of us sister or brother all the time. I said you can call me winnie and she gave me the oddest look and said “Oh that’s not done” I said “were on the moon”?

Life in the church depending on what part of Canada you live in can be different on certain issues as well.

Not so much on the role of parents but depending what the membership brought with them from their up bringing. Eastern Canada has more uptight on issues because of the Pertain history and Baptist background they take everything so literal. You will meet members who frown on laugher and dancing and do not even go near sex.

However, as you go west the more unwound they become. I was not a happy member in eastern Canada.

It was like visiting that prudish aunt every Sunday. There was how ever a problem of being so far away from the west that some bishops and leaders don’t fallow the operational guidelines. Changing services to suit the whim of the leadership. That is what got me the most.

[pushka]

Capt. Tux, thanks for your story...it was very inspiring..I wish you and your family well in the future!

Winnie, well done for standing up for your rights!