Article on hetero marriage with SSA

[carlimac]

Here is a story of a couple who chose to get married with eyes wide open about his same sex attraction. It can be done.

LDS Living - Living with Same-sex Attraction: Our Story

[Echo2002]

I know a guy who managed to live 20+ years with a woman and have 4 children with her all the while having SSA. Unfortunately he started acting on his SSA and she divorced him. She knew he had homosexual feelings before they got married.

I know another guy who was not so fortunate. He didn't tell his finance until their honeymoon night. The marriage was annulled the next day or so.

It's got to be hard to have SSA and try to live a heterosexual lifestyle.

[Bini]

I wouldn't do it but I certainly wish them the best. Perhaps they'll beat the odds.

[Echo2002]

It was a touching story and obviously marriage is not for everyone in this situation. I think it's false to assume marriage will reverse someone's SSA. It sounds like they both received personal revelation on the matter.

[carlimac]

It was a touching story and obviously marriage is not for everyone in this situation. I think it's false to assume marriage will reverse someone's SSA. It sounds like they both received personal revelation on the matter.

General Authorities discourage marrying with "cure" in mind. Sounds like they both know the attraction is there but it isn't in the forefront of their minds all day everyday. It's taken a backseat to the more important aspects of life.

[annewandering]

The blog was quite interesting. I started to read it being very skeptical but came away with a renewed hope for those with ssa.

Hope that their life continues in the vein it is going now. It is a good example to others that they can have good lives if they stay close to God and follow His inspiration. Not necessarily as a traditionally married couple but as a person who has dedicated much of his life to helping other people to have faith in God and deal with ssa.

[carlimac]

And a follow-up explanation by LDS Living on why they published the story:

Mormon Life - {LDSL Blog} Talking About Same-sex Attraction

[MarginOfError]

I haven't read the whole thing, but the first question that comes to mind is, "is his same sex attraction a homosexual thing, or a bisexual thing." I imagine it would be quite a bit easier for a bisexual to maintain a heterosexual marriage. I should finish the article to see if it says anything about that.

[Echo2002]

I think he is homosexual, it mentioned him having feelings for a man. It doesn't say for sure though.

[annewandering]

I think he is homosexual, it mentioned him having feelings for a man. It doesn't say for sure though.

I guessed he was bi since he obviously was attracted to his wife. At least enough to have children.

[Bini]

I read the article earlier, and while it states that Ty was attracted to a man (and men in general), the article doesn't clearly specify whether he is homosexual or bisexual. If he is in fact bisexual, then the article is a bit misleading, in my opinion. I agree that it would be easier for a bisexual individual to live a heterosexual lifestyle, versus a homosexual.*

[annewandering]

Perhaps you are right, Bini but he may not want to specify or he may not even know for sure. He seems to be someone who wants to live the gospel and help others so that is good in my book.

[Guest]

I guessed he was bi since he obviously was attracted to his wife. At least enough to have children.

I read the article earlier, and while it states that Ty was attracted to a man (and men in general), the article doesn't clearly specify whether he is homosexual or bisexual. If he is in fact bisexual, then the article is a bit misleading, in my opinion. I agree that it would be easier for a bisexual individual to live a heterosexual lifestyle, versus a homosexual.*

See, there's no winning this.

A homosexual man who strives his hardest to follow the gospel and marry and have children with a woman can easily be dismissed as... nah, you're a bisexual, you don't count.

No wonder homosexuals find themselves hopeless.

[annewandering]

How is it dismissing? I admire what he is doing. Maybe I am HOPING he is bi so that he has a slightly easier time of it.

See there is a big problem. Communication is words but intent and emotions dont always show in the words.

[Soulsearcher]

See, there's no winning this.

A homosexual man who strives his hardest to follow the gospel and marry and have children with a woman can easily be dismissed as... nah, you're a bisexual, you don't count.

No wonder homosexuals find themselves hopeless.

I don't see it as a dismissal so much as an inquiry. The story in the article does kind of gloss over more detail on what level and what directions his attractions were focused. From the information the article provided and age wondering about if he's bisexual or not is a valid question. No one is stating he is for sure or saying he must be for this to work, just pondering if that's part of why this works while in many other cases it just doesn't

[Bini]

See, there's no winning this.

A homosexual man who strives his hardest to follow the gospel and marry and have children with a woman can easily be dismissed as... nah, you're a bisexual, you don't count.

No wonder homosexuals find themselves hopeless.

Anatess, you don't understand my post. I said that the article did not specify whether this man is homosexual or bisexual - only that he has SSA. Then I added that IF in fact he is bisexual, then that may partly explain how he is able to live a heterosexual life, in which case, the article would be a bit misleading. The article doesn't specify either way, so we just don't know. Assuming he's a gay man, his story is inspiring for other homosexuals, such as my nephew who is LDS. If he is bisexual, his story may not connect on the same level, with gays and lesbians that AREN'T attracted to the opposite sex at all.*

[annewandering]

Ok I have to add something here that might be a bit hmmm taboo. You dont have to be homosexual or bi or anything else to feel a sexual hmm 'perk' from the same sex. My gosh just look at all the ads on tv and in magazines that push naked womens body in the effort to entice men AND women to buy their product. You dont think those are intended to be arousing to both men and women? Not necessarily with sex in mind for that model but just the feeling of arousal.

There are psych tests done to test the DEGREE of arousal from different scenarios not whether they will arouse at all. They know there will be a degree in most cases.

Do you see what I mean or am I just not getting the idea across? Anyway the point is that a person can be aroused by either sex and not be homosexual or even bisexual. The man could be 100% homosexual and still father children. It just would not be as satisfying, I would think.

[Bini]

Ok I have to add something here that might be a bit hmmm taboo. You dont have to be homosexual or bi or anything else to feel a sexual hmm 'perk' from the same sex. My gosh just look at all the ads on tv and in magazines that push naked womens body in the effort to entice men AND women to buy their product. You dont think those are intended to be arousing to both men and women? Not necessarily with sex in mind for that model but just the feeling of arousal.

There are psych tests done to test the DEGREE of arousal from different scenarios not whether they will arouse at all. They know there will be a degree in most cases.

Do you see what I mean or am I just not getting the idea across? Anyway the point is that a person can be aroused by either sex and not be homosexual or even bisexual. The man could be 100% homosexual and still father children. It just would not be as satisfying, I would think.

Anne, I understand what you're saying. For me personally, I think some of those commercials, like Calvin Klein (which are typically very sexually charged), use sex appeal to convince women into believing they should look like the sexy siren in the ad, and not necessarily to arouse them. But can people have SSA and not be bisexual or homosexual? Yes. I find women's bodies more sexually attractive than men's but I don't have this urge to be with a woman. I love being with my husband - in every sense.*

[Soulsearcher]

The man could be 100% homosexual and still father children. It just would not be as satisfying, I would think.

It's not.

[annewandering]

Didnt think so. lol. Now see what just happened? Not a big thing but a little step to practicing understanding. :)

[carlimac]

I agree with Anne. So much of media is meant to be sexually stimulating in a general way- although Playboy Bunny types do nuthin for me. Neither do extremely muscular men in Speedos. Uck! So at what point does one become a bisexual? Has anyone ever defined the line clearly? My friend's husband who left her because he was "gay" did father a child with her. So is any man with SSA who can father a child with a woman considered bisexual?

Just from reading Ty Mansfield's first book, he was clearly homosexual, even engaging in some kind of relationship with another guy at some point after his mission I think. ( I don't believe he broke the law of chastity because I don't think he was ever excommunicated.) He did date girls in highschool and college but he gave the impression it was group date situations- the social and cultural thing to do plus he didn't want anyone to find out about his SSA. Since Ty doesn't go into any detail at all about his specific sexual arousal response, we have no way of knowing his level of homosexuality. I don't really want to ask him.

This is why I think the whole LGBT movement is a bit of a crock and so potentially dangerous. It's possible that, since there is so much social acceptance of self proclaimed "gays" now- so many pro-gay messages out there, that kids who have even the slightest inclination towards SSA can easily be fooled into believing they are hopelessly gay and incapable of having a healthy relationship with the opposite sex. The Qs (that's the "Questioning" if I understand it right) are being told to throw away their chances of a hetero relationship by the LGBTs. The gospel of Jesus Christ tells them otherwise if they will listen and exercise faith.

Edited May 26, 2012 by carlimac

[annewandering]

You may, possibly, be right but there is no way to know without respectful talking and listening.

[Soulsearcher]

I agree with Anne. So much of media is meant to be sexually stimulating in a general way- although Playboy Bunny types do nuthin for me. Neither do extremely muscular men in Speedos. Uck! So at what point does one become a bisexual? Has anyone ever defined the line clearly? My friend's husband who left her because he was "gay" did father a child with her. So is any man with SSA who can father a child with a woman considered bisexual?

Just from reading Ty Mansfield's first book, he was clearly homosexual, even engaging in some kind of relationship with another guy at some point after his mission I think. ( I don't believe he broke the law of chastity because I don't think he was ever excommunicated.) He did date girls in highschool and college but he gave the impression it was group date situations- the social and cultural thing to do plus he didn't want anyone to find out about his SSA. Since Ty doesn't go into any detail at all about his specific sexual arousal response, we have no way of knowing his level of homosexuality. I don't really want to ask him.

This is why I think the whole LGBT movement is a bit of a crock and so potentially dangerous. It's possible that, since there is so much social acceptance of self proclaimed "gays" now- so many pro-gay messages out there, that kids who have even the slightest inclination towards SSA can easily be fooled into believing they are hopelessly gay and incapable of having a healthy relationship with the opposite sex. The Qs (that's the "Questioning" if I understand it right) are being told to throw away their chances of a hetero relationship by the LGBTs. The gospel of Jesus Christ tells them otherwise if they will listen and exercise faith.

Can a gay man who fathers a child be considered a bisexual. really depends, was he actively seeking sex with a woman or was he using her as part of a cover up. It's selfish and cruel but sadly the easiest way to get people off your back is sleep with women, lots of different example out there as to what people will do out of sheer terror.

"this is the reason i think the whole christian movement is a bit of a crock and potentially dangerous, it's possible since there is so much social nonacceptance now of self proclaimed gays that - so many anti gay messages out there that kids who have even the slightest inclination towards SSA can easily be fooled into believing they are hopelessly damned and incapable of having a healthy relationship with the same sex"

funny how easy such thoughts can be turned right around.

again you are letting your prejudice showing. Questioning people aren't being told to throw away anything. they are being given information. They are being given facts. You think i never heard messages like Ty's or people who advocated his form of life? It's all i heard, i never heard the pro side. the gospel of jesus christ doesn't say anything for sure about them having a heterosexual relationship. people say it, but in reality the gospel doesn't really have many direct answers on relationship answers for gays except don't engage in the ones you are drawn to.(though some still question that). What you think you see isn't there. For the majority, not the fringes we warn of the dangers, just like all people with common sense do, and then leave the choice to the people who need to make it. Also remember that for you seeming to worry about people being peer pressured from the gay side, it exists more from the religious side. Family, friends ect, there tends to be a much larger non-gay influence in the lives of gays than there is a gay influence.

[carlimac]

"this is the reason i think the whole christian movement is a bit of a crock and potentially dangerous, it's possible since there is so much social nonacceptance now of self proclaimed gays that - so many anti gay messages out there that kids who have even the slightest inclination towards SSA can easily be fooled into believing they are hopelessly damned and incapable of having a healthy relationship with the same sex"

What is a "healthy relationship" with the same sex for someone with SSA? If you mean a love and physical attraction that is identical to a romantic hetero relationship, this is where the comparison breaks down.

Even though you can hardly bear me talking about Ty Mansfield, (have you read his book yet like I suggested?) he gives an alternate choice. he describes what happened to him when he had a huge crush on a guy and said he loved that guy. He knew it was wrong. He knew he could never be completely happy in a same gender relationship because he would have to give up on something that was more important to him than having sex or even a close bond with that guy. What was more important was his relationship with Heavenly Father. So his description of a "healthy relationship with the same gender", even when there is mutual attraction, is to keep their distance. To just not go there.

Also, you say "what you think you see isn't there." What exactly do you think that I think I see? What am I inventing? Do you really expect us to believe that gays are sitting down and rationally explaining the dangers of gay relationships with questioners? Where and when does this happen? Certainly not in the cyberworld. All I see out there in the media, from Hollywood, from the APA, from self asserted gays and lesbians, (besides from you- you're an exception), is the crass and angry language, the exhibition and display of the lifestyle and the hypercriticism of the likes of Ty Mansfield who say there really is another way to approach these feelings you are having. I can't believe for a minute that any gay person who is sold on the lifestyle could ever counsel a questioner in an objective manner. Maybe it's because decent people like you don't often make the media spotlight. All we see is the militant pro-gay crowd. The wishy washy homosexual is never going to make it in public. They'd be eaten alive.

Edited May 26, 2012 by carlimac

[Guest]

I don't see it as a dismissal so much as an inquiry. The story in the article does kind of gloss over more detail on what level and what directions his attractions were focused. From the information the article provided and age wondering about if he's bisexual or not is a valid question. No one is stating he is for sure or saying he must be for this to work, just pondering if that's part of why this works while in many other cases it just doesn't

Anatess, you don't understand my post. I said that the article did not specify whether this man is homosexual or bisexual - only that he has SSA. Then I added that IF in fact he is bisexual, then that may partly explain how he is able to live a heterosexual life, in which case, the article would be a bit misleading. The article doesn't specify either way, so we just don't know. Assuming he's a gay man, his story is inspiring for other homosexuals, such as my nephew who is LDS. If he is bisexual, his story may not connect on the same level, with gays and lesbians that AREN'T attracted to the opposite sex at all.*

I guess I'm the only one who took Ty Mansfield on his word:

"I had pretty much concluded that I probably wouldn’t marry in this life, and I had come to a place where I was okay with that. I had let go of any personal or cultural pressure to marry and was content to stay single. "

- not something a bi-sexual would say.

"As soon as the opening prayer was given, I was completely enveloped by this spiritual feeling. I hardly remember anything that was said during the session, but the feeling was unlike anything I’ve ever felt. For nearly two hours, all the hurt, the pain, the confusion, the frustration were completely gone. In their place was this feeling of divine love I had also never experienced. As a part of that, there was a feeling of what I perceived as pure celestial love and desire to be with a daughter of God in the most holy, connected, and uniting of ways. The world’s portrayal of love and romance seemed so shallow and “false” in comparison. With the feeling came the words: “Just stay with me. If you do, this is the feeling you will someday feel—and it will be a permanent part of your being.” "

Why would he say that if he was bi? Oh, I see. If he was touched by the Spirit and given a way to fulfill his desire to live the Celestial Law fully, then he must have been a bi, he just didn't know it. Bah Humbug.

One more:

"I experienced some gradual change over time as I continued to try to stay close to and be led by the Spirit and as I sought other various means of personal growth. "

- Yep. He was bi. He was just delusional thinking he was homo in the first place.

And lastly:

“I think so many people rely on their hormones and/or their emotions to drive them that they get stuck feeling for their spouse whatever those things tell them to feel. And then if they try to feel otherwise, to love their spouse more than what hormones or emotions tell them to, they feel like they’re doing their spouse a favor rather than recognizing that they hadn’t understood how to truly love in the first place."

- Yep. He didn't rely on his hormones to drive him. But no, he's still bi coz he managed the feat of marrying and having a kid with Danielle.

I don't get it.

Edited May 26, 2012 by anatess