The Glory Of Religion Is Intelligence

[Snow]

United-States - New study: Intelligence Quotient among Mormons and non-Mormons in Utah

This study, conducted by the University of Pennsylvania in conjunction with Utah State University, compares intelligence quotient (IQ) between members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS or Mormons) and non-LDS in Utah. It examines the extent to which righteous living explains variations in intelligence between LDS and non-LDS. Complete IQ table estimates were derived using conventional methods and cross-sectional data for white males and females from 1994-1998. IQ was 110.3 for LDS males, 102.0 for non-LDS males, 114.2 for LDS females, and 104.4 for non-LDS females. A comparison between LDS and non-LDS of the intelligence quotient estimates indicates that although differential tobacco, caffeine and alcohol use explains some of the higher IQ in LDS, it only accounts for about 4.5 IQ points of the 8.3 point difference for males and 4.2 points of the 9.8 point difference for females. Higher life IQ experienced among LDS not explained by tobacco, alcohol and caffeine use may be due to factors associated with religious activity in general, such as better physical health, better social support, and healthier lifestyle behaviors, faith-based conditioning, moral superiority and recognition of eternal truth. Religious activity may also have an independent protective effect against early onset of senility.

[Guest Starsky]

LOL....are you kidding?

[AFDaw]

Interesting

[DisRuptive1]

Makes sense. Except for the fact that women, both LDS and non-LDS, have higher IQ's than men. That's gotta be wrong in some way or another. That test should be redone.

[Cal]

Originally posted by Snow@Mar 12 2004, 04:50 PM

United-States - New study: Intelligence Quotient among Mormons and non-Mormons in Utah

This study, conducted by the University of Pennsylvania in conjunction with Utah State University, compares intelligence quotient (IQ) between members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS or Mormons) and non-LDS in Utah. It examines the extent to which righteous living explains variations in intelligence between LDS and non-LDS. Complete IQ table estimates were derived using conventional methods and cross-sectional data for white males and females from 1994-1998. IQ was 110.3 for LDS males, 102.0 for non-LDS males, 114.2 for LDS females, and 104.4 for non-LDS females. A comparison between LDS and non-LDS of the intelligence quotient estimates indicates that although differential tobacco, caffeine and alcohol use explains some of the higher IQ in LDS, it only accounts for about 4.5 IQ points of the 8.3 point difference for males and 4.2 points of the 9.8 point difference for females. Higher life IQ experienced among LDS not explained by tobacco, alcohol and caffeine use may be due to factors associated with religious activity in general, such as better physical health, better social support, and healthier lifestyle behaviors, faith-based conditioning, moral superiority and recognition of eternal truth. Religious activity may also have an independent protective effect against early onset of senility.

Snow--this study does not surprise me at all and I am glad you have posted it. It is not clear from the study what variables they were controling. Did they control for the variable of the correlation between "willingness to uproot oneself and one's family and strike out on a new adventure, brave the elements in crossing a vast North American plain, and pull yourself up by your boot straps and turn a desert into an oasis--to build one of the most impressive religions in the world, and become a state with one of the highest production of PhD's and scientists"

A strong argument can be made that the mormon pioneers were almost certainly superior mentally and in character to the kind of people who immigrated to america to begin with. They often had to leave family and friends, which requires a superior sense of independents and self-determination, and strike out into a big unknown. I don't see how this wouldn't "select" for a superior intelligence and character.

From a personal view--I know that my great-great-great-great grandfather was unusually bright and capable as were his sons who, as little children, made there way from Tunstall, England to Nauvoo. These were not your AVERAGE IQ people.

And, as IQ is largely inherited, neither (IMHO) were most of the mormon pioneers.

Also, think about the effect on the genetics of Utah of polygamy. Most the polygamists were the more affluent and capable men. YOu had to be to put up with and take care of that many women--these people had a lot of kids, needless to say, which led to leaving a big chunk of superior genetics in the Salt Lake valley. Enough to skew the IQ results? I would say, DEFINITELY

[Guest curvette]

What effect does caffeine use have on IQ? Most LDS I know get their caffeine anyway--they just get it cold instead of hot.

[Guest Starsky]

That is all interesting insights Cal...but my progenitors on my mother's side....were smart..though she herself wasn't very...I love her..don't get me wrong...but educationally speaking...she was slow...

My father...on the other hand, was brilliant..genius even. His parents came over during the early nineteen hundreds from Holland. My father was first generation to be born here in his line.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by curvette@Mar 13 2004, 11:48 AM

What effect does caffeine use have on IQ? Most LDS I know get their caffeine anyway--they just get it cold instead of hot.

Yeah...chocolate...

[DisRuptive1]

Literally, caffeine does rot your brain.

[Snow]

OHHH!

Now I see the problem. The study was about life expectancy and I inadvertantly substituted intelligence. It was a simple mistake and I apologize.

I tried to make it obvious by adding in as potential causes of higher IQ, moral superiority and recognition of eternal truth.

Cal, I don't know if you have a point or not but I would guess that Mormons read more than non-Mormons, generally and reading from an early age probably plays a part in the development of early IQ. If there is any real statistical difference, I doubt that it would be so large.

The cynic in me would love to see such a study, by religion. I think there is some data about religion and education: Either way, I think it would go something like this:

Jewish,

LSD, Atheists

Liberal Protestantism, Angelican

Catholic

Muslims

Conservative Protestantism

Pentecostals and Charismatics

Here's the real story:

http://www.seniorheadlines.com/index.php3?...ge&id_art=73062

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by DisRuptive1@Mar 13 2004, 11:53 AM

Literally, caffeine does rot your brain.

It isn't always good for your heart though...and

It does take the moisture out of your cells...so you look old quicker...

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Snow@Mar 13 2004, 11:55 AM

OHHH!

Now I see the problem. The study was about life expectancy and I inadvertantly substituted intelligence. It was a simple mistake and I apologize.

I tried to make it obvious by adding in as potential causes of higher IQ, moral superiority and recognition of eternal truth.

Cal, I don't know if you have a point or not but I would guess that Mormons read more than non-Mormons, generally and reading from an early age probably plays a part in the development of early IQ. If there is any real statistical difference, I doubt that it would be so large.

The cynic in me would love to see such a study, by religion. I think there is some data about religion and education: Either way, I think it would go something like this:

Jewish,

LSD, Atheists

Liberal Protestantism, Angelican

Catholic

Muslims

Conservative Protestantism

Pentecostals and Charismatics

Here's the real story:

http://www.seniorheadlines.com/index.php3?...ge&id_art=73062

You set us all up! YOU !

[Cal]

Snow--there is a VERY scientific and reliable study that shows that Utah, for the last 50 years as been at the top producers of scientists PER CAPITA in the whole country. This is not just someone's opinion. I can cite you the study and you can read it for yourself in the study, which has been published as book called "SAINTS AND SCIENTISTS"

It was first published as a PHD thesis in 1960, and repeated in about 1990 and again in about 1999. In all three studies Utah led the nation, though, I don't know if it does in the last few years.

By the way, the study also shows that Mormon scientists ( and these are not just people with BA's in science,but are mostly PHD scientists) have not too much trouble reconciling mormonism and science, though the vast majority of the mormon Biologists and Geologists PHD's believe in evolution, don't believe in a literal flood and believe in an "old" universe

[Snow]

Right Cal,

I agree there are lots of smart Mormons. I am familiar with the Mormon scientist topic as well as with at least one gu'ys criticism of it which is on lds-mormon.com.

There is a difference between IQ and education (I work with a bunch of idiot Drs, not all are, just some) but generally speaking accomplished people in fields like science have a higher IQ than average - not stopping here to discuss the merits of IQ measurements - however, I think you would have your work cut out for you in correlatng high production of scientists within Mormonism to higher general Mormon IQs. For example, it could be that more of the smart Mormons (in this case Utah Mormons) go into science (instead of other high achievement fields) than in other states or religions and the reason for that may be cultural...

[Tr2]

I have constantly remarked about smart people believing dumb things. I guess something like this gives ground to what I've been saying for quite a long time.

[sgallan]

Interesting stuff.

But if the glory of religion is intelligence.....

..... how does fundamentalist Islam (and Christianity for that matter) work into this equation?

And I think the Jewish religion has them all beat....

[Snow]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 13 2004, 04:11 PM

I have constantly remarked about smart people believing dumb things. I guess something like this gives ground to what I've been saying for quite a long time.

I noticed that you read this yesterday but kept quiet on it until after I corrected it.

[Tr2]

I noticed that you read this yesterday but kept quiet on it until after I corrected it

No, it's that I'm on moderated status and my posts take a while to show up.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Snow@Mar 13 2004, 11:55 AM

OHHH!

Now I see the problem. The study was about life expectancy and I inadvertantly substituted intelligence. It was a simple mistake and I apologize.

I tried to make it obvious by adding in as potential causes of higher IQ, moral superiority and recognition of eternal truth.

Snow, I am so glad that you substituted those "facts", because if you didn't, I would have seriously questioned the validity of the article, or the intelligence of everyone living in Utah. Those IQ numbers were seriously low. I was thinking how glad I am that I don't live in Utah if those were the actual numbers. B) (Some of us non-LDS, non-Utah natives have much higher IQ's.)

[Snow]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 13 2004, 06:49 PM

I noticed that you read this yesterday but kept quiet on it until after I corrected it

No, it's that I'm on moderated status and my posts take a while to show up.

Trident,

That put your comment in another context then. Thanks for the backhanded compliment I guess.

Jenda,

Ave IQ is 85 to 114 making 100 the mean.

[Guest Starsky]

My sons IQs were given to us in their jr. high days....and they were 119 and 135. So I don't think Utahns are too dumb...

[Cal]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 13 2004, 04:11 PM

I have constantly remarked about smart people believing dumb things. I guess something like this gives ground to what I've been saying for quite a long time.

Refresh our memories, what have you been saying?

[Cal]

Originally posted by Peace@Mar 14 2004, 12:08 AM

My sons IQs were given to us in their jr. high days....and they were 119 and 135. So I don't think Utahns are too dumb...

You base the IQ status on all of Utah on that of two people? I'm sure that isn't what you meant, but it is what you seemed to imply.

[Tr2]

Refresh our memories, what have you been saying?

Can you not read?

[Cal]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 14 2004, 06:24 PM

Refresh our memories, what have you been saying?

Can you not read?

The problem is,TR2, I read very well---- on this particular thread you have said precious little. As to other threads you have said several things--which one of them are you supposed to be refering to?