Other religions

[Vort]

I'm not too interested in getting into that, but if it helps you, just one example is...

Maybe my ward is just much better than yours.

How is that prideful? I'm making a supposition to try to account for your vastly different view of things from mine.

Besides, I wrote that after your false accusation. Please post something I had already written. Hopefully, you can do better than this non-example.

More than that...it is the general tone that you are right and I am wrong, which I don't see it that way.

So you expect me to say that you are right and I am wrong?

Which planet are you from?

I'm fine with being a High Priest and having my view.

At the risk of putting too fine a point on it:

Duh.

Your expectations of others in the church and me is about you, so if I'm not responding to your points and waving them off, it is because I don't care to continue to rehash the same things with you.

You cannot rehash what you have not hashed in the first place. You are bringing up topics for discussion, then refusing to discuss them beyond merely making assertions.

Perhaps if you had some doctrinal quotes or teachings, I could respond to that.

Let's start with these two.

D&C 1:30

...those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth...

JS-H 19

I was answered that I must join none of [the other churches], for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

But it isn't worth it for me to respond to:

Your claim of "many paths" is simply false.

That is just your opinion, and you can have it.

Yes, I can. And I do. But I have explained why you are wrong, and you have steadfastly refused to address what I have said. I can only assume it's because you have no response to it, and so would rather avoid the question by pretending it's all opinion anyway.

[Heber13]

I don't understand how you are trying to teach the compassion of Heavenly Father, yet your bringing up the same comparison that you're condemning.

Thanks for asking, maybe I can help try to clarify my intention.

By bringing up the idea that we claim more truth and if others have truth they can bring it to us and we'll add to it, sounds elitist to me. The purpose of that was to make my point that it sounds prideful to say those kind of things and be insensitive to our brothers and sisters outside the church, many of which that I mingle with are outstanding people with high values and happy lives, and exemplify Christ's teachings based on their devout following of their religion.

I think the comparisons and the exclusivity claims I hear (not just in my ward but throughout this thread) do not strike me as Christ-like. That is my feeling.

I am open to hear yours.

Truth is not only in our doctrines but in the testimony we bear with the non-believers from our own spirit, that's why it's important to stand up for what you believe in or don't believe at all.

So, again, I am trying to make the point that I agree with you on standing up for what we believe, but I don't find it fruitful to have to make comparison or put our claims above others in order to stand up for what we believe.

Again, I will quote President Uchtdorf who warned:

This sin [of pride] has many faces. It leads some to revel in their own perceived self-worth, accomplishments, talents, wealth, or position. They count these blessings as evidence of being “chosen,” “superior,” or “more righteous” than others. This is the sin of “Thank God I am more special than you.”

We can be confident in what we believe. We can be bold in our claims of what goodness we have found when telling others about our testimony. But we can also be open to other possibilities. I am.

But I think most of this group does not agree with me. Which was the intent of my post. To ask what people thought about my beliefs.

[Hala401]

That's worth a lot! The worth of souls is great!!

To be very clear, especially in light of following the conversation. The LDS church is firmly about Jesus Christ, and following the commandments of Heavenly Father. The LDS church is uncommonly loving and stands above all other churches that I have encountered. The call is for us to unreservedly follow Jesus Christ in all that we do. And, believe me, there is a lot about me that those other churches hated.

I stand on the Atonement, and make following the commandments in all that I do a priority, and that with varying success.

[Bini]

Doc and Cov. 3 :16a, has always been a point of hope for me.

"Behold this is my doctrine: Whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church:"

The 'us vs them' is just not a profitable road to share the gospel in my humble opinion.

What a great quote, and right to point.

[jb789]

Heber, I think your inquiry is a very thoughtful one, and is a point in one's spiritual inquiry that, if they are honest, all will eventually reach.

It's unfortunate that some have been railing against you for this honest inquiry, which is, seeing the good in other religions/faiths, and then wondering if they might also be vehicles in some form to take one to eventual exaltation.

In my experience, when people at at a certain level of spiritual maturity (that is, their faith is sufficiently strong in the Savior, they are not moved about by winds of doctrine, etc), then they are able to see more of the inherent good in all religions. This doesn't mean such a person discounts the Saviour or his church! Rather, similar to our Father in Heaven, they see the sincerity in people seeking God in the ways available to them, and that these are indeed valid ways of seeking God in certain times/places (again, the Buddha comes to mind, also Lao Tzu, Mother Teresa, etc - these were indeed spiritual people, I dare say even among the elect of God that devoted their lives to helping others).

When people respond with defensiveness (even concerning the LDS church), while technically they may be correct, the defensiveness stems from a faith that is not yet mature enough to see the good in various sources. Such defensiveness actually stems from fear - the fear that one's absolute beliefs may be shaken.

I guess what I'm saying is, I understand where you're coming from, and you make very valid points. However, depending on the spiritual maturity of those you speak with, they may or may not be capable of the notion that indeed there is truth, and inspired men, in all of the world's great religions.

Anthony de Mello had a great quote: "There was once a student who never became a mathematician because he blindly believed the answer he found at the back of his math textbook - and, ironically, the answers were correct." I think that's a great quote that indicates, though our beliefs may be correct, it is the pursuit of spirituality, the spirit within us, that is essential.

[Vort]

It's unfortunate that some have been railing against you for this honest inquiry, which is, seeing the good in other religions/faiths, and then wondering if they might also be vehicles in some form to take one to eventual exaltation.

In my experience, when people at at a certain level of spiritual maturity (that is, their faith is sufficiently strong in the Savior, they are not moved about by winds of doctrine, etc), then they are able to see more of the inherent good in all religions. [...] When people respond with defensiveness (even concerning the LDS church), while technically they may be correct, the defensiveness stems from a faith that is not yet mature enough to see the good in various sources. Such defensiveness actually stems from fear - the fear that one's absolute beliefs may be shaken.

Not sure which shocks me more: How badly you have misinterpreted what has been said, or the fact that you condescend to show yourself amongst us hoi polloi at all.

[Vort]

Again, I will quote President Uchtdorf who warned:

This sin [of pride] has many faces. It leads some to revel in their own perceived self-worth, accomplishments, talents, wealth, or position. They count these blessings as evidence of being “chosen,” “superior,” or “more righteous” than others. This is the sin of “Thank God I am more special than you.”

Indeed, you are fond of this quote. And a wonderful quote it is. But you have not yet related that quote to this thread. No one here has "revel[ed] in their own perceived self-worth, accomplishments, talents, wealth, or position." (Except perhaps you, who were quick to point out your exalted missionary calling as an AP and your service in a bishopric and on a high council.) For the sake of us struggling to apply President Uchtdorf's words to the present thread, you might perhaps point out some of the "self-worth, accomplishments, talents, wealth, or position" that you think people have been reveling in.

[jb789]

Not sure which shocks me more: How badly you have misinterpreted what has been said, or the fact that you condescend to show yourself amongst us hoi polloi at all.

Woah! Just a second, I was only saying I understand where Heber is coming from :)

Years ago actually I was quite exacting in defending the LDS faith, being sometimes a bit harsh in judgement to those of other faiths. Since then, my approach has become more moderate, in that I really can see that many of the founders of other religions, and their followers today, very much have their hearts honestly seeking truth. This doesn't mean one can escape the need of the Saviour/ordinances/etc, of course, but spiritual sensitivity takes on more a role of understanding and genuine appreciation/even learning from other faiths, as opposed to lumping them in a pile of "doctrines of men" (which some are, but some are truly inspired!).

But when any discussion leads to a battle of "I'm right, you're wrong", this is not the spirit of the gospel, it's nothing more than a defense of beliefs that doesn't help anyone, and causes those involved to just close off more in their own beliefs.

[Hala401]

What a great quote, and right to point.

I am happy that you've had such a nice experience.

[Vort]

Woah! Just a second, I was only saying I understand where Heber is coming from :)

Hmmmm...

No, that is definitely not all you were saying. For example:

It's unfortunate that some have been railing against you for this honest inquiry, which is, seeing the good in other religions/faiths, and then wondering if they might also be vehicles in some form to take one to eventual exaltation.

This is certainly not "only saying [you] understand where Heber is coming from :)". (And it's also untrue: Not one single person railed against Heber for asking this question. Not one.)

When people respond with defensiveness (even concerning the LDS church), while technically they may be correct, the defensiveness stems from a faith that is not yet mature enough to see the good in various sources. Such defensiveness actually stems from fear - the fear that one's absolute beliefs may be shaken.

How, exactly, do you think that the above statement "was only saying [you] understand where Heber is coming from :)"? It says nothing of the sort. Rather, it is passing judgment on your perception of those who responded (and an incorrect perception it was).

I guess what I'm saying is, I understand where you're coming from, and you make very valid points. However, depending on the spiritual maturity of those you speak with, they may or may not be capable of the notion that indeed there is truth, and inspired men, in all of the world's great religions.

Again, how is this statement merely stating understanding for Heber's position? On the contrary, it was a commentary on the spiritual maturity of others (as if you had any insight into such a thing).

(By the way, it was another misperception on your part. I do not believe anyone on this thread suggested that the world's great religions lacked either truth or inspired men. If someone made any such suggestion, please point it out.)

Years ago actually I was quite exacting in defending the LDS faith, being sometimes a bit harsh in judgement to those of other faiths.

I see. Please do not impute your youthful mistakes or foolishness to others. No one here wrote anything like the foolishness you claim you participated in years ago.

Since then, my approach has become more moderate, in that I really can see that many of the founders of other religions, and their followers today, very much have their hearts honestly seeking truth.

Wonderful. I am happy for you that you have been able to learn what our prophets have taught for generations. That's a great step. But the fact that you were unable to see that does not therefore mean that people on this thread can't see it. We can see it just fine.

But when any discussion leads to a battle of "I'm right, you're wrong", this is not the spirit of the gospel, it's nothing more than a defense of beliefs that doesn't help anyone, and causes those involved to just close off more in their own beliefs.

In this, I agree with you completely. I think it's a shame that some have so completely closed themselves off from alternate opinions, even those of prophets and scripture. It's sad that a man who has been given an infinitely precious gift insists that his gift really is not any better or more precious than anyone else's. It's a wonder that such people waste their time and money serving missions to bring people into a fold that, by their own beliefs, is no better than the congregation or faith tradition to which those people already belonged. Seems downright illogical to me.

[Hala401]

Doc and Cov. 3 :16a, has always been a point of hope for me.

"Behold this is my doctrine: Whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church:"

The 'us vs them' is just not a profitable road to share the gospel in my humble opinion.

I agree with you to a point, however there are important differences that can not be ignored. I do try very hard to obey the rules and covenants of the church, however it does not erase the fact that my experience at the hands of other churches was harsh, so harsh that I completely disavowed those of the "plastic Jesus"," who have a form of Godliness but deny the power there in" and was Muslim for years because of them.

It may not be pretty or nice but it happened and to imply that it did not ... There is something special about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, other wise we would not learn of the apostate church.

So, I dislike one of the original premises of this thread in that it gets dangerously close to saying that one church is as good as another. Yes, we should be loving and good and kind to others, but we have a little more of the truth than them.

[Heber13]

So you expect me to say that you are right and I am wrong?

Which planet are you from?

I choose to have no further discourse with you.

I appreciate everyone else sharing their opinions in a way we can have a discussion about my sincere questions.

[Vort]

I choose to have no further discourse with you.

Oh, grow up. Don't take your ball and stomp away. Of all the things you could take offense to, "What planet are you from?" must certainly be the most ridiculous.

You have steadfastly refused to respond to what I say. Don't quit now and pretend that you're fulfilling some principled stand instead of just cowering away.

[jb789]

Hmmmm...

No, that is definitely not all you were saying. For example:

It's unfortunate that some have been railing against you for this honest inquiry, which is, seeing the good in other religions/faiths, and then wondering if they might also be vehicles in some form to take one to eventual exaltation.

This is certainly not "only saying [you] understand where Heber is coming from :)". (And it's also untrue: Not one single person railed against Heber for asking this question. Not one.)

When people respond with defensiveness (even concerning the LDS church), while technically they may be correct, the defensiveness stems from a faith that is not yet mature enough to see the good in various sources. Such defensiveness actually stems from fear - the fear that one's absolute beliefs may be shaken.

How, exactly, do you think that the above statement "was only saying [you] understand where Heber is coming from :)"? It says nothing of the sort. Rather, it is passing judgment on your perception of those who responded (and an incorrect perception it was).

I guess what I'm saying is, I understand where you're coming from, and you make very valid points. However, depending on the spiritual maturity of those you speak with, they may or may not be capable of the notion that indeed there is truth, and inspired men, in all of the world's great religions.

Again, how is this statement merely stating understanding for Heber's position? On the contrary, it was a commentary on the spiritual maturity of others (as if you had any insight into such a thing).

(By the way, it was another misperception on your part. I do not believe anyone on this thread suggested that the world's great religions lacked either truth or inspired men. If someone made any such suggestion, please point it out.)

I see. Please do not impute your youthful mistakes or foolishness to others. No one here wrote anything like the foolishness you claim you participated in years ago.

Wonderful. I am happy for you that you have been able to learn what our prophets have taught for generations. That's a great step. But the fact that you were unable to see that does not therefore mean that people on this thread can't see it. We can see it just fine.

In this, I agree with you completely. I think it's a shame that some have so completely closed themselves off from alternate opinions, even those of prophets and scripture. It's sad that a man who has been given an infinitely precious gift insists that his gift really is not any better or more precious than anyone else's. It's a wonder that such people waste their time and money serving missions to bring people into a fold that, by their own beliefs, is no better than the congregation or faith tradition to which those people already belonged. Seems downright illogical to me.

This is what I mean by an honest discussion turning into a war of who's right and whose wrong! It's a bit ridiculous, reads like a lawyer trying to make their point in court

At any rate, I'm not going to exchange in a heated debate of tit-for-tat, I have other things to do. When the pursuit of truth becomes a war of contention, we've lost it's essence already.

[Vort]

This is what I mean by an honest discussion turning into a war of who's right and whose wrong! It's a bit ridiculous, reads like a lawyer trying to make their point in court

I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on the internet. All you have to do is to respond.

At any rate, I'm not going to exchange in a heated debate of tit-for-tit, I have other things to do. When the pursuit of truth becomes a war of contention, we've lost it's essence already.

Fine, then. Don't respond in heat or contention. Just respond. Don't be another one of those drive-by commenters who don't bother either to defend or even explain their posts.

[Sicily510]

Check this out:

WE ALL ARE MORMONS....by Rabbi Shifren

We are living in an era of insanity! Witness the latest attempt to remake the nature of our country, founded and established on certain principles that have been the envy of the entire world. The latest assault on our country and its values comes in the form of vicious and criminal violence against the Mormon church in Westwood, California

Interesting how the selective self-righteous indignation on the part of the radical Gay activists is played out here: they bewail the blow to freedom and justice! But I thought we just had elections, where the majority of Californians expressed their views in a free and open manner. Are we not a nation of laws? Dare we relive the McCarthy era, where Americans were harassed and threatened with the loss of their jobs for believing in a certain way? If the Gay radicals should have their way, untold numbers of Americans would live under the threat of the Gay-Lesbian "thought police," where individuals that reject the Gay lifestyle would be sought out and have sanctions brought against them.

It's bad enough for those working in the entertainment industry here in Los Angeles, where a fog of political correctness and a bending over backwards to accommodate, even promote Gay lifestyle is in full gear. Let none dare say that this type of activity is anathema to our country, our morality, and the debauchery of our young people.

Let it be stated unequivocally: The radical Gay attack on the Mormons is the shot over the bow against the United States of America. There was a time when what a man did in his bedroom was sanctified between himself and G-d. Now we are being served an "in-your-face" smorgasbord of smut and licentiousness as being between people who only "want their civil rights."

Hogwash! We are dealing with the equivalent of a moral takeover of the country that has as its bedrock a belief in G-d and His promise for humanity. They don't want civil rights! What they desire is quasi Gay/Lesbian hegemony, where a huge "bookburning," reminiscent of the Nazis, will purge any remnants of the "Christian, White, mainstream America" that has given ALL AMERICANS the most profound scope of freedom, liberty, and justice that Mankind has yet to experience.

People have perhaps wondered: why the Mormons? Answer: they are a small, yet vocal Christian minority. They have been selected by the mobs as vulnerable, a group that might not have such massive support among America's Christians.

We who are friends of the Mormons, their patriotism, their family values, will not falter in our continued support of these dear Americans. Let us recall the Christian minister Niemoller, whose admonition during those dark years of Nazi Germany moved us to our core:

"When they came for the gypsies, I said nothing, because I wasn't a gypsy. When they came for the homosexuals, I said nothing, because I wasn't a homosexual. When they came for the Jews, I said nothing, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I said nothing, because I wasn't a Catholic......then they came for me, and there was no one left to defend me."

My fellow Americans, in the coming battle for the heart and soul of America and everything we cherish, may this call to arms be the mantra of every concerned patriot:

"WE ALL ARE MORMONS!"

RabbiShifren-WeAreAllMormons112008

When one thinks Mormons are not open to other beliefs it's because we are busy sustainig our beliefs in Jesus Christ. And when other religions compare doctrines and beliefs, we are only standing our grounds on defending what they have misinterpreted. I found this link through a research on the attack against the Mormons in L.A. I even went to church the following sunday and some of the members whom were there shared their testimonies. They were crying as they were trying to protect the Temple from vandalism, and the churches, too. It's crazy how much this church is being persecuted from media to people just straight up rude in your face kind of way. I know the adversary is tempting members to retaliate and fight back in an immoral way, hopefully you can remember that we are not self-righteous we are humans seeking peace through Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father to sanctify us, and this is what we should share with others. We are imperfect, but we try so much even in our own homes to maintain the unity of of our families with hope, love and charity in our Savior Jesus Christ.

I know our presidency or bishops and teachers in the wards are imperfect, that's why I know this church has flourished because we all unite with faith in becoming righteous through our Savior Jesus Christ. None of us are strong enough without the grace of Jesus Christ to inspire us to do for others what we would want done for ourselves. This Church's foundation is built on Jesus Christ and will forever remain in his glory and even prophets have testified to we the members in their spiritual revelations, that is the miracle I found in this church. To know that the firm foundation of Faith is real piercing through my soul allowing me to fill through tears of Joy in Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.

"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you." John 14:27

Heber13, I understand what you're saying but the real issue is past that point already. The real issue is being worthy to stand in Holy places and hear our Savior knock when he comes.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Sicily510

[Leah]

I'm not too interested in getting into that, but if it helps you, just one example is...

More than that...it is the general tone that you are right and I am wrong, which I don't see it that way.

I'm fine with being a High Priest and having my view. Your expectations of others in the church and me is about you, so if I'm not responding to your points and waving them off, it is because I don't care to continue to rehash the same things with you. I understand your point of view. I just disagree with it. And I think it is OK in the church for various views to exist.

Perhaps if you had some doctrinal quotes or teachings, I could respond to that. But it isn't worth it for me to respond to:

That is just your opinion, and you can have it.

It is confusing that you accuse Vort of not having humility, but when he asks for evidence of that, you respond that you are "not too interested in getting into that". Why make the accusation, then?

I see nothing prideful in Vort's words. I see him standing up for the teachings of the church.

If you think his experiences with his ward are "prideful", then I guess I am "prideful", too, as I have never had any experience with the people putting down other churches in my ward...and especially not in talks in sacrament meeting. Indeed, I see the opposite, where the good and the truth is other churches, is acknowledged and respected.

It almost seems that you are asking us to feel ashamed of our church.

Isn't it a little (or a lot) prideful for you to come here and purport that you know better than the church's teachings? You want everyone to agree with your personal viewpoint, and when they don't, it "isn't worth it" for you to engage with them. Yet you are the one who made the claims that are being responded to. Did you just expect everyone to say "Oh yeah...the Church is wrong and you're right!".

I am sure you will say it is not. I find it ironic that you will bring forth quotes from church leaders to try to "prove" your point, yet at the same time, you purport to know better than these leaders.

[Heber13]

So, I dislike one of the original premises of this thread in that it gets dangerously close to saying that one church is as good as another. Yes, we should be loving and good and kind to others, but we have a little more of the truth than them.

I really appreciate your opinion because you lived through that and have experience to speak from.

However, as much as I understand the path you came from, and it sounded like it was not positive in any other religion until you found the beauty of this church, I do not think your experience is universal for everyone.

My sister is married to a muslim. He and his family are wonderful people, truly loving. Truly hating the few extreme muslims that give them a bad name. They live their religion in a way that is about love and devotion. I respect them.

I have also seen people grow up mormon who have gone through terrible experiences at the hands of church members. Physical, sexual abuse. Awful things done inside the church buildings on Tuesday night activities. Examples of church members who spoke of God with their lips, but their hearts were far from Him.

I do not wish to discredit your experience in any way shape or form. I agree with you that this church is beautiful and I'm happy for you that you have found peace. However, your incredible experiences are probably not universal to everyone, right? There are many examples I have from my friends in other religions that are happy, healthy, and apply Christ's teachings. It has made me become more sensitive to the comparisons between groups, because there is so much good in the world.

I also think the Church leaders have softened these words over the past decades. They have distanced themselves from BRMcConkie's words of generations past where any other church is considered "The Church of the Devil". They are more praiseworthy of our brothers and sisters of other faiths.

Perhaps there was a meaning in God's plan for you to go through the path you went through, and eventually found truth in this Church. Perhaps others are on that path as well, for different reasons or different experiences with different timetables, and God is aware of them and their path as well. Not all will complete that path in this life and join the church.

It doesn't lessen my experience in the church. There can be many paths. God is not limited in how He can accomplish His work and His glory. That is how I feel.

[Heber13]

Thanks for the post from that Rabbi.

Can you clarify what you mean by this so I don't misunderstand you?

Heber13, I understand what you're saying but the real issue is past that point already. The real issue is being worthy to stand in Holy places and hear our Savior knock when he comes.

[Hala401]

I think that we are now talking about a different set of issues here, when you speak of persecution of the church in California. I really had little understanding of the issues, until Rickety confronted me on Prop 8. And, I don't really have a lot of understanding of it yet. However, I do believe that some of the GBLT side have told outrageous whoppers.

Civil rights and religious rights are two different things I think according to our constitution. The conflict around confusion on the matter is what has ignited to controversy. While I may not endorse the morality surrounding same sex marriage, I do not believe that anyone has the right to legislate morality.

As church members, we have the right to enforce our own set of moral rules, but we can not apply them to others. The GBLT, again, some of them, have capitolized on creating confusion around the issue with the other voters, who are mainly interested in getting their pork chops and fried potatoes on the table.

[Vort]

I also think the Church leaders have softened these words over the past decades. They have distanced themselves from BRMcConkie's words of generations past where any other church is considered "The Church of the Devil".

This is a blatant lie, Heber. McConkie never said any such thing. You are inventing this out of whole cloth.

Prove me wrong, and I will openly apologize. Refuse to prove your point, and I (and every other honest, thinking person) will take that as a tacit acknowledgement of your open dishonesty.

[Leah]

This is what I mean by an honest discussion turning into a war of who's right and whose wrong! It's a bit ridiculous, reads like a lawyer trying to make their point in court

At any rate, I'm not going to exchange in a heated debate of tit-for-tat, I have other things to do. When the pursuit of truth becomes a war of contention, we've lost it's essence already.

But wasn't that exactly the point of your posts? To tell Vort and others here that they/we are wrong?

Or are you just mad that not everyone agrees that you are "right"?

What is a discussion forum fo, if not debate and "tit-for'tat"? Isn't that how it works? Someone makes a statment, someone else responds to that statement. Or do you just expect to make statements and not have them responded to or - horrors! - challenged?

[Vort]

There can be many paths. God is not limited in how He can accomplish His work and His glory. That is how I feel.

You are demonstrably wrong (again). God's word has repeatedly taught that God is, in fact, quite limited in how he can accomplish his work and glory. For example, God cannot (note the word) save people in their sins. It's not a choice God makes. It is an impossibility.

[skippy740]

Well... IIRC, Bruce R. McConkie said (in the 1st edition of Mormon Doctrine) that the Catholic Church was the "church of the devil" spoken of in The Book of Mormon. And based on the history of Cardinals and other things spoken of, it would seem that the Catholic's church HISTORY would show some of this. I am NOT saying this about the Catholic Church today.

In my opinion, every church serves a purpose, but not every church has the divine right of authority, priesthood and ordinances. There are good people in all churches.

In my opinion, these other churches are great "training wheels" towards the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The problem is that many people just "stay there" and not progress and become open to new truths.

[Heber13]

I have never had any experience with the people putting down other churches in my ward...and especially not in talks in sacrament meeting. Indeed, I see the opposite, where the good and the truth is other churches, is acknowledged and respected.

I'm glad to hear that from your ward. But I have heard the comments many times. Sorry, I don't know what to say, but it is why it is a sore point with me. If there was a visitor with me when I heard those things, I would have been embarrassed. I'm just sharing my experience.

Some of the posts in this thread do not make me feel better.

It almost seems that you are asking us to feel ashamed of our church.

I'm not asking that at all, in any way. If that meaning was taken from my words, I apologize. That was never intended.

Isn't it a little (or a lot) prideful for you to come here and purport that you know better than the church's teachings? You want everyone to agree with your personal viewpoint, and when they don't, it "isn't worth it" for you to engage with them. Yet you are the one who made the claims that are being responded to. Did you just expect everyone to say "Oh yeah...the Church is wrong and you're right!".

Leah, I have no problem engaging with people who will talk to me. I am not here to try to get people to agree with me, or have anyone believe the Church is wrong. I don't feel I've suggested that in any of my posts.

My point is, from my view, other religions have provided a viable path to find God. That is all.

I am sure you will say it is not. I find it ironic that you will bring forth quotes from church leaders to try to "prove" your point, yet at the same time, you purport to know better than these leaders.

I don't believe I have ever claimed to know more than our leaders. I'm trying to live the principles they teach.

So, am I supposed to engage and try to share my opinions using backup from church teachings and doctrine, or am I not?

I am confused with your post on where you stand on the subject.

Regardless of whether you think I'm prideful or not, do you believe other religions can bring people close to God, and if they don't get a chance to accept truths in this life, they can be taught and saved in the next life? If so, we are close to agreement that other religions can be one pathway to exaltation. For God works in mysterious ways, and His ways are higher than our ways. I'm not saying our church is false (I've never suggested that). I'm just saying I'm open to possibilities of many paths.