A note on evil.

[Hala401]

One thing about the Theatre Massacre that is sure, is that there is evil in the world, and evil does react to goodness. Of note is the fact that one of the victims of the shooting narrowly missed being killed in another shooting in Canada. It has made me realize that evil reacts to goodness in a very aggressive and recognizable way, though.

So, an extreme case is evil reacting to Jesus Christ.

Then think hard about the opposition that good people run into. I hate to get Job-ian about this, but sometimes goodness attracts evil. Look at poor Job, who had gained the notice of the evil angel.

Then, in our own realm, think about the times we are just trying to behave and bad things happen to us. Perhaps some would feel that there is little connection between just trying to live a good life and evil attacks. All I am suggesting is that even in the face of what we think is random evil, we should still try to be good; to please Heavenly Father and to reach out to those who need our help.

[The_Warrior]

I am not sure what you are trying to say - However, If I were the devil and had to work within certain rules (the chief one being that no one may be tempted beyond their capability to resist), I would most certainly go after those who are more likely to make it into heaven. If I was a dark angel assigned to 10 families, I would sort by those that are already committing sin of their own accord, and keep them on the "back burner," and instead focus on the one-two families that are living in righteousness so that I can get them all to the same level. Once everyone is on the same level of "sin" I can focus further on making them miserable and perhaps interact to score the "big sins," adultery or murder. Those last two sins need to be tempered and introduced gradually as to not "shock the conscience."

Keep in mind that while only a third of spirits followed the devil, of the remaining two-thirds only an INFINITESIMAL portion is being tried (living) at a given time - so it is very likely that there is a whole TEAM of evil spirits for each person. What is even more frightening is the fact that they all know us better than we know ourselves because of the veil. The only thing keeping things "fair" is the Lord's promise that we will in fact not be tempted beyond our capability to resist... there is another thought: the more righteous you are, the greater your ability to resist; thus the evil efforts grow.

Sorry if that does not answer or help you - you seemed to be focusing on the victim aspect... I kinda just played the devil.

Edited July 22, 2012 by The_Warrior

[Hala401]

I am pretty old, in fact, I am almost used up, so I am pretty sure that evil is like that cigar smoke that used to drift around the resturant. Still, experientially, it seems like the better one is and the more good they do to motivate others to do good, the more hardship they encounter. Of course, I have never seen a definitive rule book about it.

Oh, one can say that the Book of Mormon and the Bible are those books, but that is not what I am talking about because we all know that we can read either book a half dozen times and get something new every time.

Sometimes I wonder about the connection between good works and reward. The high ground that Jesus Christ talks about is doing good without expecting a reward, but sadly I think that most of us expect rewards from time to time for being good.

The fact is that we can sometimes spend a life time doing good, and then get kicked in the teeth. The fact remains however that Heavenly Father is still in the heavens and he knows all. We must avoid the idea that our rewards are on earth.

[bcguy]

I have seen cases where mass shootings were result of mental illness. But this case was more pre-meditated. The guy showed up in court today. looked dazed but I still do not know what to think about it. A gun range manager was asked "by voice mail" if he can join a gun range club but he called back, heard his voice mail and it sounded a little disturbing so, he said "no, I had bad vibes about that outgoing vm message"

Personally, I do not know what to think about the theater shooting other then the fact his mind could have been deteriorating into some kind of mental disorder.

As long as there are guns that are allowed by law into the hands of those who have mental illness, there will always be shootings by the guns owner.

[Hala401]

I have seen cases where mass shootings were result of mental illness. But this case was more pre-meditated. The guy showed up in court today. looked dazed but I still do not know what to think about it. A gun range manager was asked "by voice mail" if he can join a gun range club but he called back, heard his voice mail and it sounded a little disturbing so, he said "no, I had bad vibes about that outgoing vm message"

Personally, I do not know what to think about the theater shooting other then the fact his mind could have been deteriorating into some kind of mental disorder.

As long as there are guns that are allowed by law into the hands of those who have mental illness, there will always be shootings by the guns owner.

A friend of mine is wondering if it is young adult onset of schizophrenia?

[annewandering]

Mental illness does not mean they can not plan ahead. For example people with paranoid schizophrenia, or whatever its called now, can plan for years. In fact that is something they do very well. They can be extremely focused. The idea that people with mental illness have to be disoriented and unorganized is just false.

[Hala401]

Mental illness does not mean they can not plan ahead. For example people with paranoid schizophrenia, or whatever its called now, can plan for years. In fact that is something they do very well. They can be extremely focused. The idea that people with mental illness have to be disoriented and unorganized is just false.

I used to have a job as a trainee/worker at The National Aliance of the Mentally Ill, NAMI. It was a federally funded senior work force re-entry program. My boss was a schitzophrenic and when he was OK, he must have been IQ 150 or so, but when he thought he was God, he would walk right out into traffic on the busy expressway out front. He is a very good man and it always made me sad that he had that problem.

[Guest]

As long as there are guns that are allowed by law into the hands of those who have mental illness, there will always be shootings by the guns owner.

Well, the reason you get a gun is so you can shoot it when you need to. So, of course, there's always going to be shootings when you get a gun - regardless of mental state. Shooting a gun is not a crime. Neither is it immoral in my opinion.

If you're talking about criminal-shooting, you're going to have an impossible time determining who has criminal-shooting-capable mental illness when reviewing a gun license application. If you've ever been prescribed with ritalin - even if it was in elementary school - does that qualify you to have mental illness? How about if you got diagnosed with seasonal anxiety disorder? But more than likely, you never went to seek psychological treatment, so nobody knows if you have mental disorder, not even you.

Okay, so let's say you got some form of magical psychological evaluation as part of your gun license application that prevents people like the guy in Colorado from obtaining a gun... that's not going to solve anything. Timothy McVeigh blew up a Federal building without needing a gun to do so. 9/11 hijackers killed over 3,000 people with nothing but box cutters and an airplane. Are we going to require psychological evaluation to buy fertilizer and box cutters?

Now, let's say that my father-in-law who has a license to carry (he's retired navy) happened to be in that theater when the guy started shooting. I'm fairly certain that if my father-in-law do not get hit after the first few shots was fired, that guy would have been incapacitated by my father-in-law's firearm. The shooting will last less than 2 minutes. Of course, my father-in-law's firearm would be of absolute no use against Timothy McVeigh's fertilizer...

[Guest]

A friend of mine is wondering if it is young adult onset of schizophrenia?

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy doesn't have any mental illness at all.

[annewandering]

The guy had bullet proof armor. The idea of people having a firefight in a crowded theatre just makes me nauseated. The police were there in 2 minutes. Long minutes yes.

It would be much more productive to make sure NO guns get into the theatre. For instance not letting people go out the emergency doors to bring guns into the building. Not letting toy weapons in. Not allowing big coats which can conceal weapons. I am sure there are better ideas out there. Better and more logical than adding more guns into a movie.

[Guest]

The guy had bullet proof armor. The idea of people having a firefight in a crowded theatre just makes me nauseated. The police were there in 2 minutes. Long minutes yes.

It would be much more productive to make sure NO guns get into the theatre. For instance not letting people go out the emergency doors to bring guns into the building. Not letting toy weapons in. Not allowing big coats which can conceal weapons. I am sure there are better ideas out there. Better and more logical than adding more guns into a movie.

Of course I agree with you. But that goes for all venues - not just theater. And of course, those who are intent on shooting at people will find ways to do so - bypassing security.

So you have a choice - go through airport security type inspections going anywhere - mall, theater, school, buses... etc. Or find a way to defend yourself against the idiots.

[NeuroTypical]

As long as there are guns that are allowed by law into the hands of those who have mental illness, there will always be shootings by the guns owner.

Hmm...

From where I'm standing, that statement is equally true no matter what demographic group we use instead of "those who have mental illness"...

As long as there are guns that are allowed by law into the hands of rednecks, there will always be shootings by the guns owner.

As long as there are guns that are allowed by law into the hands of gay people, there will always be shootings by the guns owner.

As long as there are guns that are allowed by law into the hands of people on the other side of my political aisle, there will always be shootings by the guns owner.

As long as there are guns that are allowed by law into the hands of blacks, there will always be shootings by the guns owner.

As long as there are guns that are allowed by law into the hands of jews, there will always be shootings by the guns owner.

Yeah, not a very useful thing to think, in my opinion. I wonder if it might be a good idea to brush up on some basics:

Myths about Mental Illness By Elder Alexander B. Morrison Of the Seventy

Sensational and incomplete media reports have conjured up stereotypical portrayals of the mentally ill as crazed and violent lunatics, dangerous to others as well as themselves. The truth is that the vast majority of people with mental illness are not violent, and the great majority of crimes of violence are not committed by persons who are mentally ill.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[beefche]

The guy had bullet proof armor. The idea of people having a firefight in a crowded theatre just makes me nauseated. The police were there in 2 minutes. Long minutes yes.

It would be much more productive to make sure NO guns get into the theatre. For instance not letting people go out the emergency doors to bring guns into the building. Not letting toy weapons in. Not allowing big coats which can conceal weapons. I am sure there are better ideas out there. Better and more logical than adding more guns into a movie.

You are advocating for body searches at movie theaters? I have to leave my winter coat in the car and trek through snow, ice, and freezing temps to go see a movie? Why not for the grocery store? What about when I decide to get gas for the car?

My point is, people who are intent on killing will kill. There's little we can do to stop them. Of course we should take precautions, there's no doubt about that. But, I don't want to have to submit to a body search to leave my house for something as simple as going to a movie theater.

[NeuroTypical]

The guy had bullet proof armor. The idea of people having a firefight in a crowded theatre just makes me nauseated.

Well, the whole situation makes me sort of nauseous, but a few more facts might help you avoid some of the nausea.

Fact: Bullet proof armor does not, in fact, make you Bullet Proof.

Yesterday on the radio, a guy who had been a US marshall and had been shot in his bullet proof vest, called in to speak on this specific point. You might not kill a guy wearing body armor by shooting him, but it hurts like heck, you can knock him down by shooting him, and multiple hits can degrade the armor's effectiveness.

Remember - the correct intent is not to shoot to kill, you shoot to stop.

Please understand - I am not saying people should have returned fire in a crowded theater. That could have been effective, or it could have killed more people. I don't know - I wasn't there. All I'm doing is pointing out what bullet proof vests are.

I'm rather partial to the Dept. of Homeland Security's guidelines on active shooter situations:

HOW TO RESPOND WHEN AN ACTIVE SHOOTER IS IN YOUR VICINITY

1. EVACUATE

• Have an escape route and plan in mind

• Leave your belongings behind

• Keep your hands visible

2. HIDE OUT

• Hide in an area out of the shooter’s view

• Block entry to your hiding place and lock the doors

• Silence your cell phone and/or pager

3. TAKE ACTION

• As a last resort and only when your life is in imminent danger

• Attempt to incapacitate the shooter

• Act with physical aggression and throw items at the active shooter

Run. If you can't run, hide. If you can't hide, fight. If you must fight, do whatever is necessary to stop the threat. I like that - my wife and I are training our kids like this. We add another step up front - don't be in a dangerous situation in the first place.

It would be much more productive to make sure NO guns get into the theatre. For instance not letting people

...

Not letting

...

Not allowing

Such interesting words, "Letting" and "Allowing". We add them into our sentences, sometimes totally blind to the fact that we're lying to ourselves about our ability to "let" and "allow". Those darn lawbreakers - always breaking laws. Always doing things they're not allowed to do. Thinking they can do things we don't let them do.

Your "better ideas" include metal detectors and armed guards, Anne. We haven't really figured out anything better, that doesn't infringe on our rights. (Besides, of course, raising up righteous children in good families with proper morals and character, and succeeding at missionary efforts so we can live like the Nephites after Christ came.)

Edited July 24, 2012 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[norah63]

Didn't he tell the police that he was the joker? That is a pretty clear statement if it is correct.