True or False?

[Eleven]

On my mission we had a mission pres that i didnt fully agree with at all times, but still sustained and did what i was told. I had two mission presidents, and the second was by far the one to relate to me, focusing more on Part member work and working through the members like the preach my gospel explains..

anyways, this first mission pres was very "be a man" kinda guy and also was a lawyer, and so in and out he kinda took what he wanted out of the white handbook and preach my gospel and the rest he made his own. Anyways, heres what im getting at.

He had this quote that SO many of my rm buddies love, and it doesnt even make any doctrinal sense to me whatsoever.. His quote was

"If you dont make a success out of everything you do, then you will never make a success out of anything you do"

What i get out of this is "If youre not successful at everything you try, your just unsuccessful, period."

One of the mission buddies posted this on his facebook and I tried to ask him "Hey what im getting out of this is *what i just typed*, and he deleted all my posts lol.. so i guess it was a soft spot.

What my question is; What do you get out of that quote? Does anyone else take it for a hasty generalization fallacy that one instance of unsuccessful shouldnt ever mean your damned from ever being successful? Or is it the bad taste in my mouth from this mission president thats getting in the way of me seeing it?

EVERYTHING is a BIG word, and so is ANYTHING. I concluded to them that if this statement were true, i could say that because i was unsuccessful at making my self breakfast without making a mess, anyone could conclude i will never be successful at paintball because of it lol..

i use extremes to help paint the picture, but you get what i mean.

i need commentary. let me know

[Dravin]

It would state that if one ever got lost (not being successful at navigation) then one is unsuccessful period. Tried to spell a word correctly and failed? Tried to do a mathematics problem correctly and failed? Tried to make a meal but burned it? You are a doctor who tried to save someone but they died? Politician who ever lost a campaign? You will never be successful at anything.

I suppose one could debate over just how narrowly to define success and what qualifies as "what you do" though.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Dravin

[Vort]

On my mission we had a mission pres that i didnt fully agree with at all times, but still sustained and did what i was told. I had two mission presidents, and the second was by far the one to relate to me, focusing more on Part member work and working through the members like the preach my gospel explains..

anyways, this first mission pres was very "be a man" kinda guy and also was a lawyer, and so in and out he kinda took what he wanted out of the white handbook and preach my gospel and the rest he made his own. Anyways, heres what im getting at.

He had this quote that SO many of my rm buddies love, and it doesnt even make any doctrinal sense to me whatsoever.. His quote was

"If you dont make a success out of everything you do, then you will never make a success out of anything you do"

What i get out of this is "If youre not successful at everything you try, your just unsuccessful, period."

One of the mission buddies posted this on his facebook and I tried to ask him "Hey what im getting out of this is *what i just typed*, and he deleted all my posts lol.. so i guess it was a soft spot.

What my question is; What do you get out of that quote? Does anyone else take it for a hasty generalization fallacy that one instance of unsuccessful shouldnt ever mean your damned from ever being successful? Or is it the bad taste in my mouth from this mission president thats getting in the way of me seeing it?

EVERYTHING is a BIG word, and so is ANYTHING. I concluded to them that if this statement were true, i could say that because i was unsuccessful at making my self breakfast without making a mess, anyone could conclude i will never be successful at paintball because of it lol..

i use extremes to help paint the picture, but you get what i mean.

i need commentary. let me know

Another way of interpreting his words is, "If you don't make overall success out of your life as a whole, none of your individual small successes are meaningful."

But I agree, it's kind of a stupid saying.

[Traveler]

On my mission we had a mission pres that i didnt fully agree with at all times, but still sustained and did what i was told. I had two mission presidents, and the second was by far the one to relate to me, focusing more on Part member work and working through the members like the preach my gospel explains..

anyways, this first mission pres was very "be a man" kinda guy and also was a lawyer, and so in and out he kinda took what he wanted out of the white handbook and preach my gospel and the rest he made his own. Anyways, heres what im getting at.

He had this quote that SO many of my rm buddies love, and it doesnt even make any doctrinal sense to me whatsoever.. His quote was

"If you dont make a success out of everything you do, then you will never make a success out of anything you do"

What i get out of this is "If youre not successful at everything you try, your just unsuccessful, period."

One of the mission buddies posted this on his facebook and I tried to ask him "Hey what im getting out of this is *what i just typed*, and he deleted all my posts lol.. so i guess it was a soft spot.

What my question is; What do you get out of that quote? Does anyone else take it for a hasty generalization fallacy that one instance of unsuccessful shouldnt ever mean your damned from ever being successful? Or is it the bad taste in my mouth from this mission president thats getting in the way of me seeing it?

EVERYTHING is a BIG word, and so is ANYTHING. I concluded to them that if this statement were true, i could say that because i was unsuccessful at making my self breakfast without making a mess, anyone could conclude i will never be successful at paintball because of it lol..

i use extremes to help paint the picture, but you get what i mean.

i need commentary. let me know

I love the saying - and I believe Christ taught this principle - Have faith and be believing and all things will turn out for your good.

I believe the problem is not understanding the true eternal meaning of the term "success".

The Traveler

[NoxNullaEgetDeumPerfectum]

Sounds like hes saying, if your not reaching the point of perfection in everything that you do, then you will never be perfect or good in anything.

Maybe what he was trying to say is that, if you dont try you wont ever have the chance to succede. The way it is right now, sounds like he wants a super perfect Man or Women. Failing is necessary inroder so that a individual can learn from it. If your not learning from it, then you have truely given up and failing. Point is to pick yourself back up again and to continue onwards.

[Traveler]

Sounds like hes saying, if your not reaching the point of perfection in everything that you do, then you will never be perfect or good in anything.

Maybe what he was trying to say is that, if you dont try you wont ever have the chance to succede. The way it is right now, sounds like he wants a super perfect Man or Women. Failing is necessary inroder so that a individual can learn from it. If your not learning from it, then you have truely given up and failing. Point is to pick yourself back up again and to continue onwards.

You only have failed when you quit - picking yourself back up or even with the assistance of someone else - is success - not failure.

The Traveler

[Guest]

"If you dont make a success out of everything you do, then you will never make a success out of anything you do"

is not

"If youre not successful at everything you try, your just unsuccessful, period."

Nope.

I use that quote a lot. Learned it from my dad. It goes hand-in-hand with the saying, "When you get lemons make lemonade".

Basically, the idea is that you can always make a success of everything - including failure. If I am unsuccessful at making breakfast without making a mess, it is still a success because I learned how to clean up messes and succeeded at that. Of course, if I just throw my hands up and cry because I made a mess, then yeah, I failed. And if that's my attitude, then I will not be successful in anything - because at the first sign of a snag, I throw my hands up.

This reminds me of my brother. He had a car that was 14 years old. He bought it brand new when his son was 2. My brother has never had a ticket, never had an accident, and is borderline OCD with car maintenance. He loved that car. He gave the car - in pristine condition - to his son when his son turned 16. And a week later, his son totalled it in a car accident. When my brother heard about it, his first reaction was - "Now we know the airbag still works".

Edited August 8, 2012 by anatess

[HiJolly]

"If you dont make a success out of everything you do, then you will never make a success out of anything you do"

What i get out of this is "If youre not successful at everything you try, your just unsuccessful, period."

i need commentary. let me know

What you get from it shows that you are one who tends to let the world and/or personal experience defeat you and this mindset does not hold 'hope' and 'faith' as internal values, effectually speaking. Sorry, I can see that's too blunt but I can't think of how else to put it.

For me, it describes the mental 'spin' that there is ALWAYS a pony to be found in that pile of manure, there is always a silver lining in that black cloud, there is always a way to gain value from lived experience, no matter how bad it is.

HiJolly

[Dravin]

As I suspected, it boils down to how people are defining "success" and "what you do". People are parsing things rather finely on both sides, and it seems to stem from exactly what people are infusing the words with. You're getting concepts like ultimate success, or that as long one continues trying to succeed then the "thing you do" isn't over yet and thus can't be declared to not be successful. On the other hand you have the idea that what you do is more quantized, if I burn the omelette I failed at making an omelette, I may have learned from it it but that's a success of the thing I do called learning not the thing I do called making an omelette.

That failures are a necessary part of learning and growing and to not be discouraged and that as long as you keep trying or are learning something you haven't failed are just different sides of the same thin coin. One sees failure as inherently bad so it is defined such that as long as one is progressing it hasn't happened, the other sees it as common preliminary step to finally succeeding.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Dravin

[Eleven]

As I suspected, it boils down to how people are defining "success" and "what you do". People are parsing things rather finely on both sides, and it seems to stem from exactly what people are infusing the words with. You're getting concepts like ultimate success, or that as long one continues trying to succeed then the "thing you do" isn't over yet and thus can't be declared to not be successful. On the other hand you have the idea that what you do is more episodic, if I burn the omelette I failed at making an omelette, I may have learned from it it but that's a success of the thing I do called learning not the thing I do called making an omelette.

That failures are a necessary part of learning and growing and to not be discouraged and that as long as you keep trying or are learning something you haven't failed are just different sides of the same thin coin. One sees failure as inherently bad so it is defined such that as long as one is progressing it hasn't happened, the other sees it as common preliminary step to finally succeeding.

BTW thanks for all the ideas guys. But Dravin i fully agree, the quotes validity completely relies on the persons definition of what exactly success is. The difficult thing about me and where this quote originated with me is this Presidents view of success was numbers. If you didnt baptize a lot, you were never called into leadership. The zone leaders heavily talked about a "favorite 30" list anytime a lot of zone leaders where going home, meaning some of the other lowly missionaries would have to step it up and become that type of missionary... because of all this, certain areas baptized 70 people, and i SPECIFICALLY remember a missionary coming to me and showing me 70 names of converts, 2 were still active and both had WOW problems...

So for me, My president, knowing what his definition of success was, said this quote and the only thing i could think of was more and more depression among other missionaries. If you didnt baptize as much as everyone else, you werent making a success out of your mission.

Anyways, what i said in this facebook comment was "I think the saying is off but the moral is right. I believe Pres was trying to say "If you dont give 100% in everything that you do, how can you ever hope to be successful in anything you wish to accomplish".

that was my take on it. But in the christian world, saying "If youre not first your last" to me is an oxymoron.

[skippy740]

He had this quote that SO many of my rm buddies love, and it doesnt even make any doctrinal sense to me whatsoever.. His quote was

"If you dont make a success out of everything you do, then you will never make a success out of anything you do"

Tell me how that is different than D&C 4?

Therefore, O ye that embark in the service of God, see that ye serve him with all your heart, might, mind and strength, that ye may stand blameless before God at the last day.

Also, you need to define success in your mind.

If success is ONLY a result (in this case baptisms), then you will have a closed-mind to what is really being taught.

Success is a destination (result) AND a journey. Success is planned in your routine - in the actions you take (or not take).

Success is the specific, measurable action taken towards a goal. If you are doing this on a regular basis, you are successful... because you are implementing a plan for success - regardless if you achieve the desired outcome or not.

If your results are not what you expect, you then take a look at the process that got you your results. Is the process still acceptable? Then continue on. If you can improve up on it, do so.

[Traveler]

Thought I would add a quote from my father in giving advice to me one time when I was complaining about difficulties with a professor at college: He said it really does not matter how difficult the requirements someone will find a way to succeed and no matter how easy the requirements some will find a way to fail - that is not really interesting. What is interesting is that in both cases it will be the same ones that succeed or fail.

The other thing my father said is that when given a task no matter how difficult or easy some will complain and some will go about getting it done - again it does not seem to be if the task is difficult or easy - the complainers and the doers remain mostly the same. I think the only exceptions is politics - where everybody complains and no body does hardly anything.

The Traveler

[NoxNullaEgetDeumPerfectum]

You only have failed when you quit - picking yourself back up or even with the assistance of someone else - is success - not failure.

The Traveler

As long as you continue and dont quit. That is success, yes.

[THIRDpersonviewer]

I get where you can see where your mission president seems like baptisms and numbers might have been what he was about.

I served in our mission office for about 4 and 1/2 months. I got to see my mission president nearly every day. There were a lot of things that not being in the office it was harder for me to grasp and catch his vision(the one he received from God). I'll just say, he was definitly inspired.

I know there was a period of time that he was focusing on the numbers. I say that as he was trying to figure out how to increase the activities connected to the numbers not the numbers themselves. I knew his heart, he made it evident to us. He loved the people, he was the 15th missionary to serve in the country in the early 70's. He felt apart of those people. However, he was strict and similar to the "no-nonsense approach you described. When I was with him in the office, the numbers had dropped significantly from the prior mission president. The area authority presidency asked why the numbers dropped, and the reason was because the way we were now counting numbers. We were now counting how preach my gospel says we were supposed to. The reason our mission president made that an important emphasis is because "these numbers mean what they actually say they mean, and now we can train where we need to."

After this another nearby mission was having absurd success. So, the assistants called them up and they explained that they recorded daily results not just weekly. There is the quote that says where performance is measured performance improves, where performance is measured and reported performance accelerates. I helped collect those daily results, and the results did improve. However for some missionaries they didn't respond well and the performance decreased.

I think to a number of missionaries to whom I talked to, they wondered why there was such an emphasis on numbers.

The truth was that it wasn't for the numbers sake. It was because when you are accountable for what you do, then you strive to do your best to fulfill your accountability. The numbers were just the outward reflection of what you do. It is the only measuring stick the mission president has, and the area presidency has, and the quorum of the twelve and the President has. Numbers come as you do what you are supposed to.

Mission Presidents would love to focus on helping you grow inwardly in your work, but that is for individual interactions(interviews and discussions at the table for meals at zone conference) and occasionally the group(ZC and other meetings). Often that is why there were zone leaders to help with that.

Remember those numbers are just tied to the activities you are doing. Are you doing anything? If you have some numbers then yes. You don't need to have baptisms for you to have the evidence that you are working. If you are getting lots of lessons or new people investigating, then you are working to find people but no baptisms suggest you need to improve your teaching, or transiton from just meeting people to building firm relationships, or getting members involved.

[THIRDpersonviewer]

So going to you MP's comment "If you dont make a success out of everything you do, then you will never make a success out of anything you do."

I agree with it though I think it is worded awkwardly. I agree when you define success correctly. In my opinion, it is narrow-minded to say I didn't get baptisms so I failed. I didn't make my omelet correctly so I failed. I didn't make the light bulb so I failed.

People can be narrow-minded regarding perfection. This example shows someone who doesn't know what perfection is. I was talking once about perfection, and then I did something where I got it wrong, I think it was I dropped something. The girl said I wasn't perfect. That is not what perfection is about(though Im sure we won't drop anything when we are). perfection is about being united with God, so that we possess the same attributes, characteristics, talents, abilities as Him and we live eternally in a family unit. However people view the things you do or say, and then they make a judgment to say whether you are perfect or not. No matter how meaningless that task or comment was.

In my opinion, success is when you accomplish something. wouldn't you say? So what did you accomplish when you didn't get any baptisms? If you were working, then you probably developed patience, long-suffering, and charity, and hope. You might have touched a number of lives along the way who have had their seeds planted. The list can go on and on.

Failure grows when you have less of a window of success. Think of a pie chart where the .01% is a bright green against a red pie. If you are trying to hit that sliver of green all the time and define the red as failure , then probability says YOU WILL FAIL. Many many more times than you have success.But if you broaden your scope and range of success then you will obviously hit the green more and more.

So, the key is being able to turn anything you do into a success. If you can then you will succeed in everything.

Look at the 13th article of faith.

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