What Is The "atonement"?

[Ray]

Can you come up with some analogies for:

What the atonement actually is, how we get it, and how it works... while keeping it simple?

I've tried to do that, and I think it can help others understand it.

For example, I recently used this analogy...

... and imperfect (or incomplete) as it is, I believe it can help others understand it:

Say: God gave you a billion dollars...

... or a line of credit on a billion dollars. God could keep giving you more, but that's really not the point I'm driving at now... it's a very generous gift.

And you didn't have to do anything to receive it.

God just gave it to you. It's yours. It has your name on it.

But to receive that money from God, you have to go through God to get it...

... meaning you have to get God's authorization to use it, and keep using it, for what God wants you to do with it.

If you walk away from God... forever... then you will never receive it.

Right now, the money is waiting, and you have some more time to claim it.

But if you wait too long, you won't get it. There's a deadline for receiving it.

And only God knows how long God gave you. I can't speculate about that.

But I can tell you I got mine, and that some people don't seem to be using theirs.

If they are, then why aren't they buying what I know to be good?

(I believe the questions are helpful to help you (or others) see what I'm thinking.)

[boyando]

I hope you will forgive me for not using my own words, but I have not found a better analogies than the parable of the bicycle in Stephen E. Robinson's book, believing Christ.

One afternoon after work as I was reading the news paper, our oldest daughter, Sarah, who was then seven years old, came up to me and said "Daddy, can I get a bike? I'm the only kid in our neighborhood who doesn't have a bike." I mumbled some kind of general nonspecific accent, but Sarah lifted up the paper and looked me in the eye. How, and when? she asked.

Now it would not have been easy for us financially to buy Sarah a bicycle at this particular time, so I tried to stall her. "I'll tell you what Sarah" I said "You save all your pennies, and soon you'll have enough for a bike"

"OK," she said and she went away - I was off the hook. A few weeks went by, and I was once again sitting in my chair after work, reading my newspaper. This time I was aware of Sarah doing some chores for her mother and being paid for it. Then she went into her bedroom, and I heard a sound like "clink, clink."

"Sarah, what are you doing?" I asked. She came out of her bedroom with a little jar in her hand. It had once been a maraschino cherry jar, but she had cleaned it up and cut a slot in the lid. On the bottom of the jar were a bunch of coins. Sarah showed me the jar and said, "You promised that if I saved all my pennies pretty soon I'd have enough to get a bike. And Daddy I've saved every single one!"

Well, she's my daughter, and I love her. I hadn't actually lied to her. If she saved all of her pennies, eventually she would have enough for a bike. But by then, she would probably want a car. In the meantime, sweet little Sarah was doing everything in her power to follow my instructions, but her needs were still not being met. I was overwhelmed. "OK, Sarah," I said, "let's go downtown and look at bikes."

We went to every store in Williamsport. Finally, in one of the big discount stores, we found it: the Perfect Bicycle (probably the one she knew in the premortal life). From halfway across the store, she knew it was The One. She ran and jumped up on the bike and said, "Dad, this is it. This is just the one I want." She was thrilled.

Then she noticed the price tag hanging down between the handlebars, and with a smile, she reached down and turned it over. At first she just stared at it; then the smile disappeared. Her face clouded up, and she started to cry. "Oh Daddy," she said in despair, "I'll never have enough for a bicycle." It was her first bitter dose of adult reality.

The bike, as I recall, cost over one hundred dollars. It was hopelessly beyond her means. But because Sarah is my daughter and I lover her, I haven an interest in her happiness. So I asked, "Sarah, how much money do you have?"

"Sixty-one cents," she answered forlornly.

"Then I'll tell you what, dear. Let's try a different arrangement. You give me everything you've got, the whole sixty-one cents, and a hug and a kiss, and this bike is yours."

Well, she's never been stupid. She gave me a big hug and a kiss and hand over the sixty-one cents. then I had to drive home very slowly because she wouldn't get off the bike. She rode it home on the sidewalk (it was only a few blocks), and I drove along beside her. And as I drove, it occurred to me that this was a parable for the atonement of Christ.

You see, we all want something desperately, but it's not a bicycle. We want the kingdom of God. We want to go home to our heavenly parents worthy and clean. But the horrible price - perfect performance - is hopelessly beyond our means. At some point in our spiritual progress, we realize what the full price of admission into that kingdom is, and we also realize that we cannot pay it. And then we despair. That's where Janet (my wife) was that night as we talked, in despair at the vast difference between perfect performance and what she felt she could do.

But only at this point, when we finally realize our inability to perfect and save ourselves, when we finally realize our truly desperate situation here is mortality and our need to be saved from it by some outside intervention - only then can we fully appreciate the One who comes to save.

At that point, the Savior steps in and says, "So you've done all you can do, but it's not enough. Well, don't despair. I'll tell you what, let's try a different arrangement. How much do you have? How much can fairly be expected of you? You give me exactly that much (the whole sixty-one cents_ and do all you can do, and I will provide the rest for now. You give me all you've got and a hug and a kiss (that is, make this a personal relationship), and the kingdom is yours! Perfection will still be our ultimate goal, but until you can get it on your own, I'll let you use mine. What do you say? You do everything you can do, and I'll do what you can't yet do. Between the two of us, we'll have it all covered. You will be on hundred percent justified."

I'm not saying it is a perfect, parable. Hope it helps -allmosthumble

[Ray]

I've always like that one, allmosthumble... or at least since the first time I heard it.

And now I'm going to ask you to go out on a limb.

What is the atonement, how did she get it, and how does it work... in your analogy?

Hint: In my analogy, it isn't the money... and in yours it isn't the money, or the bicycle.

At least that's what I think. So what do you think, now?

Are you willing to share your thoughts, in your words?

[prisonchaplain]

If we could just forgo the 61-cents, have daddy gift her with the bike, and then make the little girl promise to wash it, maintain it, and become the best bike-rider she can be.

To carry the analogy further, her reception of the bike would be akin to reconcilation with God. The day she turns her bike in for a car might be the day she literally and completely enters the kingdom of God.

[Ray]

...her reception of the bike would be akin to reconcilation with God. The day she turns her bike in for a car might be the day she literally and completely enters the kingdom of God.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

I agree that her "reception" is key, but does simply receiving a gift she really wants from her Daddy automatically make her "at one" with her Daddy?

What is the "atonement", how does it work, and how does she get it... in that analogy?

I could give you some more hints, but I'd like you to tell me, and I'm hoping that we both will agree.

:)

[prisonchaplain]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. I agree that her "reception" is key, but does simply receiving a gift she really wants from her Daddy automatically make her "at one" with her Daddy? What is the "atonement", how does it work, and how does she get it... in that analogy? I could give you some more hints, but I'd like you to tell me, and I'm hoping that we both will agree. :)

Receiving the gift (of the bike/salvation) is the key, yes. Also, the willingness to care for and maintain it (turning away from the old life/walking in the life of Christ/sanctification) assures that the relationship grows. So, once she receives the bike, she has it. Should she neglect or abuse it--leave it out in the rain, etc., over time it will become useless.

[Ray]

Okay, I can accept that as what you believe, but that doesn't make sense to me.

To me, the atonement is the state of their relationship... where the father and daughter are both one.

It isn't the money. It isn't the bike. It isn't taking care of the bike.

It isn't the daughter saving enough of her money so she can earn enough for the bike.

I could say it is love, but it's more than even that. It's also their faith, and their desires.

And we can be one, with God, just like that, if that's what we really want, as God does.

And btw, I think the point we don't seem to agree on is that the key is her reception of "the bike".

What if her father told her she could not have the bike... because he didn't think she should have it?

It's not about the bike, and it's not about the money.

It's about wanting what God wants us to want.

[prisonchaplain]

Okay, I can accept that as what you believe, but that doesn't make sense to me. To me, the atonement is the state of their relationship... where the father and daughter are both one. It isn't the money. It isn't the bike. It isn't taking care of the bike. It isn't the daughter saving enough of her money so she can earn enough for the bike. could say it is love, but it's more than even that. It's also their faith, and their desires.

And we can be one, with God, just like that, if that's what we really want, as God does. And btw, I think the point we don't seem to agree on is that the key is her reception of "the bike". What if her father told her she could not have the bike... because he didn't think she should have it? It's not about the bike, and it's not about the money. It's about wanting what God wants us to want.

With all due respect, and in my humble opinion, your suggesting that the love relationship is the key, while true, destroys the whole purpose of the bike analogy.

If the bike represents salvation (as Robinson seems to have meant it to), then your approach would suggest she already had the bike, before she even asks. But then you ask, what if God doesn't want you to have salvation? See? The analogy breaks down.

[Ray]

Who said "the bike" represented the atonement?

She had a "desire", her Dad approved of her "desire", and together they both got what they wanted.

Or in other words, the story still works... so cheer up. :)

[CrimsonKairos]

PC didn't say the bike represented the atonement. He said that Robinson seemed to mean that the bike represented salvation (I agree PC). The atonement would be the father's making up the difference in the price of the bike. The bike is personal salvation.

My addition to the analogy is that there are different degrees of bikes, and if the girl is really good, she gets a 12-speed bike instead of a 1-speed bike, hahahahaha. j/k

[Ray]

Okay, here is my breakdown. The main components of the story, I believe, are as follows:

Sarah, the daughter, asked her Daddy if she could have a bike. (just something she wanted)

He was busy. She was persistent. She didn’t stop asking until she got her father’s attention. (fervent prayer)

HOW, and WHEN, she asked. She had already asked IF. (expectation, or hope, based on her faith in her father)

He told her to do what she could do, and that she could get it if she tried. She took his word, and proceeded to do what she could do. (the power of faith)

He wanted to fulfill her desires, so he made plans to make up the difference between what she could do and what was necessary to get her “what she wanted”. (the atonement, based on love. The actual price would be paid later, but they’re both “one” in purpose at that point. It doesn’t mean they’re exactly alike, just like we’re not alike.)

The cost wasn’t prohibitive, in any sense. He wanted to give her what she wanted. And he gave it to her because he knew what she really wanted. (His willingness and determination to actually suffer… because of his love…. to give her that gift. And her gift would be exactly what she really wanted)

She wasn’t stupid, she knew what it costs, but she really wanted “a bike”. (what she wanted had a price, and she knew what it actually cost him. He was determined to give it to her, and she accepted His gift)

She gave him a big hug and a kiss and she handed over her money. Then he had to drive home, slowly, because she wouldn't get off the bike. (do you think the daughter was thankful? Maybe? I think so. And it made the father feel good. I hope our Father feels good.)

And btw, professor Robinson stated, in his own words,

…this was a parable for the atonement of Christ.

… not the bike, specifically. The entire parable was about the atonement.

The bike, the way I think of it, was just an answer to her prayers.

The father and daughter weren’t “one” because she “had a bike”.

The father had a car while his daughter had a bike.

Would that be your idea of being “one” with our Father in heaven?

He wants us to have what we want, and if we want we can be “one” with Him.

He has already paid the price and will do everything possible… except to give us what we don’t want.

And how do we show what we want? Have you ever thought about that?

[prisonchaplain]

RAY, I interpreted the meaning of the bike correctly. You went off on your own, reinventing the bike analogy in your own image. It's okay--you don't need to justify your actions. However, you should understand that we came to a fork in the road--everyone else (including Prof. Robinson, the originator of the analogy) went right, . . .

. . . and you went left.

:-)

[Ray]

Okay, Tommy, and others. Just humor me a little bit longer.

If the bike represents salvation, what represents the atonement?

The “money” the Dad paid to get the bike???

How would that cause the Dad and his daughter to be “at one”???

… by the daughter having enough money for the bike???

Is that what you’re thinking? If so, explain that to me.

How does that translate into becoming “at one” with God???

We are one when we receive what he gives us.???

But the Dad has a car while his daughter has a bike… how is that being “at one”, in your mind.

I think there's some other way they are both “at one”… while he has a car and she has a bike.

I don’t see how the “bike” makes them “at one”, in any way.

The bike doesn't appear to be the atonement... and receiving, or taking care of it, doesn't either.

And btw, I’m not saying I'm right and all of you are wrong… totally... but it’s clear we aren’t “at one” on this.

You might even agree with professor Robinson, totally, but would that mean you're both “at one” with God?

What if his interpretation of the atonement was off a little… would you both still be “at one” with God then?

Are we "at one" with God because Jesus Christ died for all of us (giving us the money we needed?)???

He paid the full price (we didn't pay a bit of that), so how do we become "one" with Him?

By giving Him all my pennies (representative of my works?)???

Is that really what gets me (a bike)? Is that really what makes us "at one"?

I know what I think, but I’m not talking about me. What do you think, and are both one with God?

And please do a little more to try to explain your thinking to me.

I’d really like to know “how” you think of all this.

[CrimsonKairos]

Ray, Ray, Ray...all metaphors and analogies break down at some point. Prof. Robinson wasn't creating an analogy to perfectly illustrate the atonement in its infinite breadth and scope. He was interpreting a personal anecdote in light of spirituality and salvation.

There doesn't need to be a perfect parallel for the father and daughter becoming "at one." By the way, you are so hung up on the phrase "at one" but I don't get why...it's simply a neologism coined by Tyndale...it's not scriptural or anything. Like Prof. Robinson's analogy, Tyndale's using the word "atonement" is meant to give an idea about the type of thing Jesus wrought in Gethsemane, on Calvary and through the Aramithaean's Tomb.

The point of Prof. Robinson's analogy is to point out that only through covenanting with God can we receive salvation. We can't "earn it" with our imperfect obedience and finite service...but we do need to do all that we can do for God to keep His part of the covenant of salvation.

It's that simple my friend, Prof. Robinson wasn't trying to say more or less...nor does whether his analogy breaks down or not indicate his "oneness" with God (that line of questioning on your part totally threw me...).

[Ray]

Ray, Ray, Ray...

Sorry, what?

You lost me at Ray, Ray Ray...

Ray, Ray, Ray...all metaphors and analogies break down at some point. Prof. Robinson wasn't creating an analogy to perfectly illustrate the atonement in its infinite breadth and scope. He was interpreting a personal anecdote in light of spirituality and salvation.

There doesn't need to be a perfect parallel for the father and daughter becoming "at one." By the way, you are so hung up on the phrase "at one" but I don't get why...it's simply a neologism coined by Tyndale...it's not scriptural or anything. Like Prof. Robinson's analogy, Tyndale's using the word "atonement" is meant to give an idea about the type of thing Jesus wrought in Gethsemane, on Calvary and through the Aramithaean's Tomb.

The point of Prof. Robinson's analogy is to point out that only through covenanting with God can we receive salvation. We can't "earn it" with our imperfect obedience and finite service...but we do need to do all that we can do for God to keep His part of the covenant of salvation.

It's that simple my friend, Prof. Robinson wasn't trying to say more or less...nor does whether his analogy breaks down or not indicate his "oneness" with God (that line of questioning on your part totally threw me...).

Okay, I tried to hear what you said, again, and what you seem to be saying is:

That analogy wasn't a perfect representation of the atonement. There were a lot of other details left out.

If that's what you think, then that's what you think, but I think my OP question wasn't answered.

What is the atonement, how do we get it, and how does it work... from your perspective?

You can use another analogy if you don't think that one was good enough.

Personally, I think it works, if we interpret it correctly. Or at least I can see some true parallels.

And btw, I've already told all of you some of what I think about this.

I'm trying to understand what y'all think.

... about the atonement.

You don't have to use that analogy to explain it.

By the way, you are so hung up on the phrase "at one" but I don't get why...it's simply a neologism coined by Tyndale...it's not scriptural or anything. Like Prof. Robinson's analogy, Tyndale's using the word "atonement" is meant to give an idea about the type of thing Jesus wrought in Gethsemane, on Calvary and through the Aramithaean's Tomb.

Okay, I tried to hear what you said, again, and this time this particular thought stood out for me.

The reason I am "hung up on" (or, in other words, thinking about) the phrase "at one" is because I am trying to understand the atonement better... even better than I do right now.

I know I can ask God, and I already have, and at this point, I want to know what y'all think.

I hope that explains why I am asking this question. I simply want to know what y'all think about that.

And please don't get offended if I ask some more questions after all of you share what you think.

And who knows, that might even become something we talk about.

And who knows, that might do "us" some good. :)

[pushka]

I'll try to give my humble representation of it...I might get confused, as I often do, so please forgive me for that:

Salvation is what we want. The atonement is Jesus's way of making it possible for us to achieve salvation, if we have faith that he can make it happen. Once we accept his gift of the atonement, we become one with Him/God, because we are One in purpose...of achieving/of letting us achieve salvation.

Is that anything near to what you're thinking Ray?

Of course, in the analogy of the bike, PC did point out that he would prefer that we didn't have to give our 61 cents, because Jesus didn't ask us for anything for the Atonement...we just have to take care to use the gift of the atonement wisely, in order to remain worthy of the gift.

[boyando]

If we could just forgo the 61-cents, have daddy gift her with the bike, and then make the little girl promise to wash it, maintain it, and become the best bike-rider she can be.

To carry the analogy further, her reception of the bike would be akin to reconcilation with God. The day she turns her bike in for a car might be the day she literally and completely enters the kingdom of God.

PC,

I think that you can shoot a lot of holes in this parable. As good as a parable as it is, it is not perfect.

I think that the coming unto Christ could represent the $.61 cents. But you are right when you say that what Christ offers, can be bought with out money. Of coarse you could say, that the Gospel is like a pearl of great price and when we find it, we would sell everything that we have, to gain enough money, to purchase it.

Hey its a great book and the author ties up some of these lose ends, further on in the book.

I always like to here what you say - your friend - allmosthumble

I'll try to give my humble representation of it...I might get confused, as I often do, so please forgive me for that:

Salvation is what we want. The atonement is Jesus's way of making it possible for us to achieve salvation, if we have faith that he can make it happen. Once we accept his gift of the atonement, we become one with Him/God, because we are One in purpose...of achieving/of letting us achieve salvation.

Is that anything near to what you're thinking Ray?

Of course, in the analogy of the bike, PC did point out that he would prefer that we didn't have to give our 61 cents, because Jesus didn't ask us for anything for the Atonement...we just have to take care to use the gift of the atonement wisely, in order to remain worthy of the gift.

pushka,

I think that you hit the nail on the head.

-allmosthumble

[pushka]

Thank You Allmosthumble!! It's good to get something right from time to time :)

[Ray]

The atonement is Jesus's way of making it possible for us to achieve salvation, if we have faith that he can make it happen. Once we accept his gift of the atonement, we become one with Him/God, because we are One in purpose...of achieving/of letting us achieve salvation.

Is that anything near to what you're thinking Ray?

Yes, that is pretty close to what I am thinking. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, pushka.

But you still haven’t actually described the atonement.

What is it... how do we get it… and how does it work… from your perspective?

And btw, some people have stated that the atonement was accomplished in the garden of Gethsemane, and if that is true… and I do believe it is… then that’s “where” a “what” was accomplished.

But “what” was accomplished? Our Lord didn’t die there. They’re not saying that’s where Jesus Christ died.

So what are they talking about? What, exactly, was accomplished there?

I’ll share a little more of what I think:

I believe what they’re saying is that that is ”a place” where our Lord gave up His will to our Father. In that place our Lord’s will became “one” with our Father’s will… actually "swallowed up" in the will of our Father's will.

But the fact that the atonement was accomplished in that place doesn't mean it wasn't accomplished before... or somewhere else.

At any time, in any place, when our Lord’s will was our Father’s will, the atonement was in full active force.

And never at any time did our Lord do His own will… our Lord’s will was always the will of our Father.

And that’s the “how” He can help us become “one” with our Father… He knows our Father, so He can also teach us.

And at any time when our will is the will of our Father... and also the will of our Lord… instead of what is really only our own will or the will of someone other than our Father... the atonement is accomplished... we are "one" with our Father... as our Lord is also “one” with our Father.

It’s not something that happens once and then it's totally over… unless we’re no longer “at one” any more.

And it's through our "faith" and "repentance" that our Lord can actually help us to be "at one” with God.

And btw, the “why” our Lord came here to offer His “atoning sacrifice” was because that was the will of our Father.

Our Father had declared that “someone” had to come to Earth to...

... accomplish the will of our Father.

A plan was presented by our Father in heaven…

... and our Lord said He would do our Father’s will.

And that's why our Lord is the perfect example... or analogy... for helping us understand the atonement.

We must live… and actually die... if and when necessary… to accomplish the will of our Father.

... if we want to be "at one" with God.

[CrimsonKairos]

Gethsemane certainly figures into the atonement, but I disagree that it was there that "it" happened.

Several scriptures, Biblical and latter-day, point out that Jesus had to accomplish his sacrifice alone. The Bible also points out that an angel (perhaps Michael) visited and strengthened Jesus in Gethsemane.

I believe the real "work" of the atonement occured on the cross. I believe Jesus suffered our pains and infirmities in Gethsemane as an extra "gift" to us...he didn't have to feel what we feel in order to offer a sacrifice for sin. He did that because he loves us and wants to be able to comfort us perfectly by knowing what we all experience.

Again, it was on the cross that Jesus utters that awful query, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

I lack time right now to get into how Jesus overpowered justice (though I started an entire thread on this topic not long ago so...). Anyway, just wanted to clarify that it's not solely in Gethsemane that the atoning sacrifice was offered to God on our behalf.

[Ray]

... it's not solely in Gethsemane that the atoning sacrifice was offered to God on our behalf.

I hope you can see we're in agreement. I agree with the quote above. Can you see that?

I know it happened in that garden, but it also happened in other places.

Our Lord has always been one with our Father... everywhere.

I think the reason some people say it happened in that garden is because they can see that from the scriptures.

From that story in our scriptures we can see what our Lord did... He had to work to do the will of our Father.

[CrimsonKairos]

Right, Jesus has always been one with the Father. Agreed.

However, the sacrifice for sin...what Jesus did that allows us to return to God...happened in a discrete location and during a specific period of time. I'm saying that in the LDS Church, we tend to focus solely on Gethsemane as "the place" where the atonement happened.

I think the scriptures say otherwise. Calvary is where Jesus placed his sacrifice at God's feet...placed it there by himself, without heavenly aid.

[Ray]

Right, Jesus has always been one with the Father. Agreed.

However, the sacrifice for sin...what Jesus did that allows us to return to God...happened in a discrete location and during a specific period of time.

Says who?

I say it happened all the time... everywhere.

... but I'm not talking about His death... I'm talking about His life.

... and during His whole life He was and still is totally "at one" with God... as we can be.

Think some more about "what" the atonement is and then explain that while explaining your other thoughts about we do "that".

[CrimsonKairos]

The atonement isn't about Jesus being one with God. Of course he's always one with God. The atonement was the sacrifice for sin that makes it possible for us to be justified and sanctified. The Old Testament blood sacrifices (particularly Yom Kippur's sprinkling in the Holy of Holies) were symbolic of Christ's ultimate sacrifice.

Anciently, Israel wasn't forgiven of their sins because the High Priest was "one with God" throughout the year. They were forgiven because they repented, offered sacrifices themselves, and ultimately because of the once-a-year Day of Atonement sacrifice by the High Priest.

The atonement--or suffering and sacrifice of Christ's life--began about the evening of the Passover feast and lasted until the Sunday morning following. That is, if you believe the New Testament account. I do.

I don't understand what you're trying to show by saying the atonement happened all the time, everywhere. I don't view the atonement as Jesus being at one with God. He was always at one with God, so his being at one with God while suffering in Gethsemane and on Calvary would be common and no unusual phenomenon.

What was uncommon was his bleeding from every pore (which happened only once), and hanging on a cross (which happened only once). I'm not sure what you're getting at with your comments.

[Ray]

Okay, I'll try to highlight some of my thoughts in this thread:

What is the atonement... how do we get it... and how does it work... from your perspective?

Those are the main thoughts, as questions, I am asking to all who want to respond to this thread.

You, CrimsonKairos, said you think the atonement actually is:

"what Jesus did that allows us to return to God"

and that it:

"happened (past tense) in a discrete location and during a specific period of time.

... which I can agree with, from a certain perspective, but not the way I think you are thinking.

... because I think you are thinking that what our Lord did for us... that allows us to return to our Father... He never had done before... and is still not doing right now... and that what He did for us that allows us to return to our Father in heaven allows us to return to our Father in heaven simply because He has returned to our Father in heaven.

So I'll go back to the questions and ask you to explain what you think and why you believe that.

What is the atonement... if it's not about Him becoming "at one" with our Father in heaven?

If you'll answer that question while trying to explain what you're thinking, I'll try to understand what you think about that.

I agree it is what our Lord did for all of us that allowed Him to return to our Father... what He did and what He always had done... but what He did for all of us we should see as an example for how we can return to our Father... by accepting the will of our Father, as our Lord did, Himself... so we can return to our Father.

... with the understanding that the "atoning sacrifice" of our Savior does the part we can't do for ourselves.

... but without the idea that what our Lord did and/or does for us makes us "at one" with God, as He is, automatically... without us doing [something] to show we will accept our Father's will.

And btw, it's also very clear to me, personally, that we're not all "at one" with God now, so if you don't agree with what I am saying, don't expect to be surprised when you tell me you believe what I don't believe.

But I'd still like to know what you think of all this, and what your reasons are for believing.

... because I would like to know you, personally. :)