Bishop and Tithing

[annewandering]

I have a friend on facebook who used to be a member of the church growing up but is no longer. She is a good person even though she is not fond of the church.

Tonight she said something that concerned me.

The topic got around to tithing and lying. She said something about how if you catch it up and apologize and promise not to do mess up again you are ok.

I have never heard of anything like that so told her that it was between you and God.

She came back and said that she had started a new job and hadnt paid her tithing and the bishop called her in to question her about it. Well I never heard of that happening either so told her maybe he was just concerned that she might need help.

She said no. That they kept an eye on her and she had had several bishops do this kind of thing with the tithing.

Ok so. She is not a liar. I believe that something like this did happen but I do not understand why. No bishop has EVER asked us about our tithing except at tithing settlement.

She is not a usual kind of person but she is a good person. So why would this have happened to her from a church point of view?

[Guest]

The church would notice if no tithing was coming in. It's a matter of temple worthiness and covenant keeping, so if nothing was paid for several months I wouldn't be surprised if the bishop inquired. It sounds more to me, though, like she has a history of falling behind and "apologizing", so maybe the bishop is just trying to help her keep up her promise to not let it happen again. Maybe she's not a liar but people do tend to slant things to make themselves look like the victim or good guy in the story.

[Guest]

I have a friend on facebook who used to be a member of the church growing up but is no longer. She is a good person even though she is not fond of the church.

Tonight she said something that concerned me.

The topic got around to tithing and lying. She said something about how if you catch it up and apologize and promise not to do mess up again you are ok.

I have never heard of anything like that so told her that it was between you and God.

She came back and said that she had started a new job and hadnt paid her tithing and the bishop called her in to question her about it. Well I never heard of that happening either so told her maybe he was just concerned that she might need help.

She said no. That they kept an eye on her and she had had several bishops do this kind of thing with the tithing.

Ok so. She is not a liar. I believe that something like this did happen but I do not understand why. No bishop has EVER asked us about our tithing except at tithing settlement.

She is not a usual kind of person but she is a good person. So why would this have happened to her from a church point of view?

More than likely it didn't.

I have a feeling she misinterpreted what happened.

[annewandering]

I am thinking she misconstrued it as well but I dont know.

We never had a bishop ask us why we hadnt paid any tithing in a few months. I just cant see it happening. Have any of you had this experience?

[Guest]

We haven't had it happen, no. I'm actually almost insulted that no one has talked to us at this point. We've barely been to our own ward this summer and the tithing is in the bank, but since we seem to always be at a mission farewell or homecoming or baby blessing somewhere else, we haven't paid in awhile. I've wondered if people think we've gone inactive. Fact is, I have a huge family, most live around here, and they've hit lots of milestones the last 3 months.

DH's parents pay all in one lump at the end of the year. I don't think they get bugged about it.

But every bishop is so different, and again, she may not be divulging all of the factors.

[Guest]

I don't even think our bishopric pays attention to who has paid and who hasn't until tithing settlement comes around.

[mikbone]

I send all my tithing directly to church headquarters. It's done electronically with bill pay every month and I get e-mail confirmation and yearly tax statements. We let the bishop know that we are full tithe payers at settlement. And no one in my ward has to know what my personal income is...

Donations to Church Headquarters - LDSTech

[RipplecutBuddha]

Assuming that what she said is factually accurate, it may just be her misinterpreting the bishop's intentions, as mentioned above. I've also never had a bishop ask me about my tithing at any other time than settlement.

Perhaps if the occasion arises, you could remind her that the bishop is merely the person that the church uses to verify tithing for the records of the church. As you said, whether or not it's a full tithe is between you and God, but God certainly won't visit each and every member of the Church every year to make sure they've paid all their tithes.

It's upsetting to see good people react in such a way to well-meaning leaders, and perhaps the bishop wasn't aware of her sensetivity, but hopefully she'll return in time.

[Guest]

Oh, I think I have a good guess on what happened.

This is what I think happened - she got a new job and missed tithes and just out of sheer dumb coincidence, it was also the time that the bishopric was scheduling tithing settlements... so here she thought she was singled out for tithing when, in fact, the secretary was just trying to organize the bishop's calendar for the usually end-of-year ward settlement rush.

[rameumptom]

Bishops do an annual accounting of tithes paid, usually in December. This is where the person declares if he/she is a full or part tithe payer or not. This helps the bishop to determine the worthiness of a person to hold certain callings or attend the temple.

Most bishops do not harp on people about tithing, except to encourage them to keep the commandments necessary in order to have the blessings of the temple. Since bishops are not paid, it isn't like this is affecting their paycheck or anything. It is only a concern that the person may be failing in keeping covenants made at baptism, and failing at progressing spiritually.

It may be there is one bishop out there that may do this. But several? Highly unlikely. I'm guessing she has a bone to pick with the Church, and is exaggerating (yes, even lying) to seek others to support her against the mean old Church. It is all a matter of perspective. For you, tithing settlement is not a bother. For her, it is an intrusion into her personal life.

[MarginOfError]

If it had been one bishop, I could imagine him asking inappropriately probing questions. But a series of bishops sounds suspicious. I think she has misunderstood something.

I think it would be important to explain to your friend that under the current guidelines, the only person that can declare a member's status as a full tithe payer is the member*. They should not be asking about income and comparing it to reports to do their own calculations.

*Unless the member fails to attend tithing settlement, in which case the bishop makes a declaration based on his judgment.

[Backroads]

I suppose it's possible she was stuck with the few fussy bishops out there that might have some bizarre need to babysit the ward's tithing contributions, but I agree--probably must a misinterpretation. Over and over again is seriously bad luck and hard to believe.

Or if the bishop was concerned about her and had a larger meeting with her in which tithing was merely one topic of many, and she failed to mention that.

[Leah]

Is there any chance that the questions about tithing were simply part of her temple recommend interviews over the years? Confirming you to be a full tithe payer is standard then, but I could see if somone has some sort of 'issue' regarding tithing, they might portray it as being intrusive.

[JosephP]

I can't help but wonder about any report from a former member not being tainted by their decision to leave the church. I know from hearing reports from my ex-wife, who has left the church, about things that happened to her in the church that I know are far more than a misunderstanding and bordering on outright fabrication, yet she believes every word of her story and proclaims it to anyone who'll listen that it's true.

[MarginOfError]

I can't help but wonder about any report from a former member not being tainted by their decision to leave the church. I know from hearing reports from my ex-wife, who has left the church, about things that happened to her in the church that I know are far more than a misunderstanding and bordering on outright fabrication, yet she believes every word of her story and proclaims it to anyone who'll listen that it's true.

I find it equally plausible that her (the friend, not your wife) decision to leave the church was guided by what she felt were inappropriate probings into her business. I think it is unwise to categorically dismiss a person's perception simply because of their chosen affiliations (or lack thereof)

[slamjet]

There's was once a Bishop who is looking after the welfare of his little flock. He notices that there is a member who is taking the sacrament and also holds a temple recommend but doesn't pay tithing. He calls that person in and asks about their situation. Hearing that their financial situation is more or less sound, he asks why this person feels no need to pay tithing, but still feels worthy to take the sacrament and attend the temple. He tries to explain how detrimental this is to their eternal salvation, and tries to give guidance as to how they can come back into worthiness. But in the mean time, he takes back the recommend and asks the person to seriously think that if they are not ready to commit to keeping the basic laws of God, are they really worthy to take the sacrament? He lays out what they need to do then he asks them to please call him if they have any concerns or questions and if they can please come back in a few weeks so that they can talk about their progression in the gospel.

So this person, instead of taking this a genuine concern for them, takes it as an affront to their character. They condemn the Bishop as being nosy and insulting and that the church makes all the Bishop take stock of who is and is not paying tithing because they want our money. They stop attending and tell their side of the story, albeit with some embellishment so that they can justify their bruised ego.

I dunno, this is how I kind-of see how it may have happened and it seems like this is a person who either did not want to be that committed and/or feels they should be able to do what they want without the consequences. Either way, it's not a good thing when a person condemns the church because of the failings of their understanding of it, or the failings of the people in the church when in reality, we're all trying the best we can while still learning and growing.

A person who expects perfect behavior from another human, regardless if they're bishop or not is only trying to cover up their own anxieties.

[JosephP]

I find it equally plausible that her (the friend, not your wife) decision to leave the church was guided by what she felt were inappropriate probings into her business. I think it is unwise to categorically dismiss a person's perception simply because of their chosen affiliations (or lack thereof)

I don't doubt her sincerity in her perception, my point was that the perception may be very colored by their choice to leave the church. It's hard for me to imagine that someone with a strong testimony tossed it aside because a bishop asked after a tithing payment.

In my exwife's case, once she decided she wanted to leave everything she experienced was viewed in that light. She also sincerely believed her perception is valid, though being a third party to much of it I could see how what ever happened became viewed justication for her choice.

[trubludru]

Having once served as clerk under 2 different Bishops....I seriously doubt the Bishop or anyone else went digging through the donation summaries to figure out if she was paying the proper amount of tithing or anything along those lines. Do you notice certain patterns in tithing payment over time yes? You notice that this person who has Disney checks ususally pays once a month or this college student who works as a restaurant server tends to pay every week - in small bills. But I don't think I or any other clerk or member of the Bishopric I served with once made any observation or took notice of someone not paying, or paying less than we thought normal. Really the only time the amount paid in total for the year comes up is at tithing settlement and/or tax time of people making sure that they paid what they thought they paid.

I would say it is probably some sort of misunderstanding likely colored by other events. I don't think a Bishop or multiple Bishops would bring it up outside of temple recommend interviews or tithing settlements unless it was related to some other concern. I.E. Bishop feels like member is struggling and asks them if they are making effort to have daily prayers, read scriptures, attend all church meetings, pay tithing, etc.

[EarlJibbs]

Our bishops in my stake get quarterly reports on tithing and fast offerings. If you think no one notices these but only once a year, think again.

Would I be offended if the Bishop asked me about my tithing? Nope. The lack of tithing indicates a more serious thing than just possible financial instability.... it represents a possible spiritual instability. Why should it surprise us if we are asked about it before settlement? Settlement is our statement to the Lord that we have been faithful to the law of tithing. The Bishop asking us about our tithing inbetween is could be considered Heavenly Father asking us about it.

That may not be the case in this situation, but generally speaking, Bishops have enough to do let alone "snoop" in others lifes.

[dahlia]

I don't even think our bishopric pays attention to who has paid and who hasn't until tithing settlement comes around.

I know that when I was having issues with tithing, the bishop said that several members of the ward pay it once a year. In addition, we have so many students on fellowships, etc. who don't get paid until a certain point after school starts, that I think it would take more time than it is worth for the bishop to hound everyone every month. He deals with it at the settlement meeting.

[Guest Doctrine]

I send all my tithing directly to church headquarters. It's done electronically with bill pay every month and I get e-mail confirmation and yearly tax statements. We let the bishop know that we are full tithe payers at settlement. And no one in my ward has to know what my personal income is...

Donations to Church Headquarters - LDSTech

I do that as well and find it useful the only problem i had was that when a new bishop was called i had to teach them about this way of paying, since many members dont know about it.

[searching_questioner]

As as has been mentioned in a few other posts, here in Australia, many members, including a bishop I served under as ward clerk, pay a full year's tithing in the last week or two of the financial year. No one ever questions that. As long as a tithe is one tenth of a person's annual income, no conclusions about a person's worthiness can or should be drawn from the frequency with which they contribute that one tenth.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

There's was once a Bishop who is looking after the welfare of his little flock. He notices that there is a member who is taking the sacrament and also holds a temple recommend but doesn't pay tithing. He calls that person in and asks about their situation. Hearing that their financial situation is more or less sound, he asks why this person feels no need to pay tithing, but still feels worthy to take the sacrament and attend the temple.

I just want to clarify here, paying your tithing or not, is not connected to taking the sacrament. To the temple, yes, but not to taking the Sacrament.

And, no I have never had a Bishop ask me about tithing outside of temple recommends (perhaps that is what she is thinking of) or tithing settlement.