10 minute talk.

[Guest]

Since you seem determined to give this talk no matter what anyone's opinions are, I hope you'll update us and tell us how it went.

[skippy740]

We are told that a hymn is like a prayer Not opening the hymn book being like not bowing your head and folding your arms for a prayer, is just the way I look at it. I heard from another member, quite a while ago about not knocking on wood or crossing your fingers. Now I know that you are not going to lose your Temple recommend, or anything if you do these things. But I choose not to, because they are superstitions, and I hope others will choose not to for the same reason. Brother Ray

What about those that are deaf? They don't pray with their head down, eyes closed or even arms folded. Does that make their prayer any less heard?

For every reason for "tradition" there's a reason or excuse not to... that are just as valid.

Your talk may be more devicive than unifying. I would advise that you tread carefully on this.

[circusboy01]

One taboo I might mention is the taboo of giving talks about unimportant things we should and shouldn't do to better our worship (I say it half seriously and half playfully)

At the risk of being offensive, I'm going to just be blunt. The second I hear someone in one of my meetings talk about how we should preferably take the Sacrament with our right hand is the second I stop paying attention to the speaker. We should be more concerned about the substance of our worship than we are about the form of our worship.

That, actually, would be a decent topic for a talk, "The substance of our worship."

Oh, and what exactly is wrong with not bowing your head for prayer? In some cultures, prayers have been performed with the speaker looking up. Does it really matter that we conform to the Primary definition of reverence when we pray?

Your right it really doesn't matter. But how many time have you seen someone giving the opening or closing prayer, while they were looking up? How many times have you seen them with their heads bowed?

When we pray in church we don't use the customs of other cultures. We bow our heads in reverence.

[circusboy01]

What are you trying to achieve with this topic or do's or don'ts or taboos?

As a child I was taught to use my right hand to take the sacrament. It wasn't until I was an adult that I learned it didn't matter. Never heard of the knock on wood or cross your fingers prohibition. I also have never heard that not following along with the hymn was akin to not bowing your head during prayer.

I'm really not trying to achieve anything, except to be informative. I wouldn't be surprised, if I choose my words prayerfully, if some one comes up to me and says I enjoyed your talk brother Solema. I didn't know that about knocking on wood, or about whatever. Brother Ray

[circusboy01]

One taboo I might mention is the taboo of giving talks about unimportant things we should and shouldn't do to better our worship (I say it half seriously and half playfully)

At the risk of being offensive, I'm going to just be blunt. The second I hear someone in one of my meetings talk about how we should preferably take the Sacrament with our right hand is the second I stop paying attention to the speaker. We should be more concerned about the substance of our worship than we are about the form of our worship.

That, actually, would be a decent topic for a talk, "The substance of our worship."

Oh, and what exactly is wrong with not bowing your head for prayer? In some cultures, prayers have been performed with the speaker looking up. Does it really matter that we conform to the Primary definition of reverence when we pray?

One taboo I might mention is the taboo of giving talks about unimportant things we should and shouldn't do to better our worship

We talk about unimportant things in LDS.Net quite often. Besides it's only going to be a little 10 minute talk. How much trouble could I get in ?

[Guest]

lds.net is not a meeting presided over by a member of the Priesthood and meant to renew covenants and unify, strengthen, and edify the Saints.

(I mean, hopefully we achieve some of those things sometimes . . . but you can't really compare an internet forum to a meeting you've covenanted to participate in.)

[skippy740]

Besides it's only going to be a little 10 minute talk. How much trouble could I get in ?

Depends if your Area Authority Seventy is in attendance...

And if you have to ask the question, your talk may be heading in the wrong direction.

[circusboy01]

Your talk is about form vs substance. The Lord looketh upon the heart, not upon the proceedure (so to speak).

For this particular example, the right hand is the oath and covenant hand. Aside from temple ordinances, it is the same hand that we use to sustain leaders, recite the scout oath, and even being sworn in as a witness in court. There is symbolism here... but don't let form and symbolism interfere with the relationship with the Savior.

Those are two areas I can think of right now that relate to your topic. For "knocking on wood"... remember to keep superstitions "fun" but that all blessings come from the Lord... not the fact that you 'knocked on wood'. In an extreme way, it can be a form of idol worship - if you think that knocking on wood helps you to get the blessings you want.

In prayers - saying thee, thy, thou is proper and more formal over you & yours. However, if you take someone aside and say "you're doing it wrong"... well, then I would say to take the beam out of your own eye. At least they are praying and the Lord looketh upon the heart, not just the words being used. Share the customs we have, but know that it's not as important as the person being active and participating in meetings.

In whatever subjects you think of, show what it is, what would the Savior do, and what is the worst that can happen when we try to enforce a "pharisiacal" procedure without love.

Just a couple of ideas I have for you.

Those are two areas I can think of right now that relate to your topic. For "knocking on wood"... remember to keep superstitions "fun" but that all blessings come from the Lord... not the fact that you 'knocked on wood'. In an extreme way, it can be a form of idol worship - if you think that knocking on wood helps you to get the blessings you want.

That's the kind of things I want my talk to be about. But naturally I don't want to sound like I am pointing fingers. I like the way you worded it.

You may want to talk about white shirts for priesthood service. White shirts are worn in the temple and typically cost less than shirts of color. But if a young man wants to perform his priesthood duty wearing a blue shirt with his sacrament duties, I would let him. The priesthood is not bound by the color of the shirt he wears, but by his faithfulness and worthiness. Many a young man (or even older men) have been asked not to perform their priesthood duty because of the color of their shirt... some have not been back at all.

I had no idea that one of the reasons we wear white shirts to the Temple is because they cost less. That must be from back in the days of the pioneers when the members didn't have much. Is that right? Maybe I can work it into my talk. So far my rough draft is only about 5 minutes.

I used to help pass the Sacrament when we were short on Aaronic Priesthood members.

One day I came to church wearing a dark burgundy shirt with a white tie. I volunteered to help pass the Sacrament, but was told I couldn't I was not upset, and neither, I think, would the vast majority of the church membership. I know this is harsh. But I Put Priesthood members leaving church because they weren't allowed to pass the Sacrament, in a non white shirt. In the same category with the brother from our church history who left the church because someone spelled his name wrong. Their testimony needs to be a whole lot stronger. Brother Ray

Edited November 1, 2012 by skippy740

[circusboy01]

What about those that are deaf? They don't pray with their head down, eyes closed or even arms folded. Does that make their prayer any less heard?

For every reason for "tradition" there's a reason or excuse not to... that are just as valid.

Your talk may be more devicive than unifying. I would advise that you tread carefully on this.

Of course there will be exceptions. I know that, and I think you know I know that.

Sheese! it's just going to be a little informative and friendly talk. Not a Hell fire and Brimstone

sermon. Brother Ray

[circusboy01]

Depends if your Area Authority Seventy is in attendance...

And if you have to ask the question, your talk may be heading in the wrong direction.

Okay. I think I understand. No humor when replying to your posts:D

This is for everyone who has posted. I'm sorry I didn't answer everyone's post but I'm getting kind of burned out. I'll tell you what I have an appointment with the Stake President tomorrow night for a Temple recommend interview. I will tell him about my idea and see what he says. Brother Ray

[circusboy01]

In sports, a "bye" week is a week where you don't play a team. A "bye" in a tournament means you don't have to play in a given round, and instead automatically advance to the next round.

Some Latter-day Saints don't go to stake conference, considering it a "week off". Regrettable, but that's the joke of the "bye week" crack.

Thanks I kind of thought that's what it meant. But I wasn't sure, because I didn't think anyone would suggest, that I miss conference. Brother Ray

[circusboy01]

President Monson told Elder Carl Cook of the 1st Quorum of the Seventy "Its always better to look up."

If President Monson said it then I know it has to be true. I wonder if we will see more people in the chapel looking up while they pray. Because of President Monson's statement. It would be nice to see that people are following his guidance. Brother Ray

[Vort]

If President Monson said it then I know it has to be true. I wonder if we will see more people in the chapel looking up while they pray. Because of President Monson's statement. It would be nice to see that people are following his guidance. Brother Ray

In context, President Monson's words had nothing to do with our posture during prayer.

[circusboy01]

using the right hand is not a doctrine in the church its more of an opinion, like wearing a white shirt to church to bless the sacrament, you are asked to wear it. but it is not a Requirement.

i say stick to the doctrines like faith in jesus christ, or scriptures and personal revealtions, or the blessings of taking the sacrament.

Please read Answers to Gospel Questions by Joseph Fielding Smith Vol. 1 Chapter 39

The Right Hand.

[Vort]

Please read Answers to Gospel Questions by Joseph Fielding Smith Vol. 1 Chapter 39

The Right Hand.

Answers to Gospel Questions are the considered opinions of an apostle, not Church policy. There is no requirement, explicit or otherwise, to take the sacrament with the right hand. (I usually do, but that is a personal thing.)

[circusboy01]

Answers to Gospel Questions are the considered opinions of an apostle, not Church policy. There is no requirement, explicit or otherwise, to take the sacrament with the right hand. (I usually do, but that is a personal thing.)

Yes it was only his opinion, and you are right. Using the Right hand is not a requirement.

But in the article I mentioned it says "The showing favor to the right hand, or side is not something invented by man, but was revealed from the heavens in the beginning."

You say you use the right hand for personal reasons, I would guess that they are much the same reasons I have for using the right hand, and much the same reason, many have for using the right hand. I just wanted to convey my feeling about using the right hand, in the talk

But I guess it's all a moot point, because I have decided to write another talk.

See my final post Brother Ray.

Edited November 2, 2012 by circusboy01

[circusboy01]

To everyone;

First I have to apologize. I did not talk to my Stake President, He asked me when and where I joined the church, and we got to talking, and I honestly forgot. But I was thinking about it last night after I went to bed, and I decided, for the most part, that you were right. Now whoever it was that said I thought I was better then everyone, and whoever said I wanted to get up on my soap box, could not be more wrong. What they said was hurtful, and I did not deserve it I have never been the type of person they claim me to be, and I never will be.

But I have decided to write a different talk. I'm not sure yet but I think it's going to me on the many ways we receive blessings. But I'm not going to show it to you until after I have given it. ( if I'm the one picked) If you blackball this one I might not have time to write another. Only kidding I will probably post it. That way, if I don't get picked at least somebody will read it.

About why I decided not to give the first talk. The talk I wanted to give Would not have offended anybody or talked down to anybody Which would be great if I could give the talk I wanted to give.

But you showed me that I couldn't give that talk. No matter how sincere my efforts were. There's just too many things in the subject matter that could be taken wrong or misunderstood. No matter how I worded it. So thank you Brother Ray

[pam]

I would like to read it if and when you want to post it. I think a talk about blessings would be awesome. I think people tend to forget the many ways they really do receive blessings.

[circusboy01]

I'll be glad to post it for you I can't say when It will get written though Brother Ray

Brothers, and sisters. My talk, today is on Happiness through living the gospel. First I would like to thank who ever it was that chose me to be up here for the opportunity. to give this talk. I only have 2 problems 1. I am up here in front of all of you talking into a microphone. Not one of my favorite places to be. 2. I have to be up here for 10 minutes, and I can sum up

my entire talk in less than 2. Here's what I mean. I would like all of you to please take a moment to thank about all the things that are good in your lives, that you attribute to trying your very best to do your Heavenly Fathers will. (short pause) O.K. now I know I didn't give you enough time to think of everything. But the things you did think of. That's happiness through living the Gospel.. Brothers and sisters I don't think anything else I could say would make the point any clearer, or any stroinger. The good things in our lives are a direct result of striving to do our Heavenly Fathers will.. This, in a nutshell, is Happiness through living the Gospel. Well, we have a lot of time left. What else would you like to talk about? Just kidding. I know i have to stay on the subject, and I do have a few other things I would like to share with you..

I took this next part from a pamphlet written by The Center for the study of the L.D.S. way of life. From a seminar I went to.

2nd. Nephi Ch. 2 V. 25: Adam fell that man might be; and men are that they might have joy. The natural consequences of living the Gospel are. Genuine joy, happiness, self esteem,self confidence, peace of mind, a sense of well being,and eternal life.

Alma Chp. 41 v. 10: Behold I say unto you wickedness never was happiness. Heleman Chp.13 V. 38; And ye sought for happiness by doing iniquity, which thing is contrary to the nature of that righteousness which is our great and eternal Head. The natural consequences of neglecting to live the Gospel include. Depression, unhappiness, discouragement, disspondency, and a feeling of inferiority. Brothers and sisters before I continue, I would like to clarify some of the above statements., as I don't want to share false or confusing information.. The list of natural consequences of living the Gospel are 100 % guarenteed. If you try your very best. these good things will happen.. The consequences for not living the Gospel are things that cna or might happen, and only to those who know Gods will and are not living by it. We all know people who don't have the gospel in their lives. Who are not depressed, unhappy, discouraged, despondent,or feel inferior. In fact. Many are very happy. But their happiness is only for this life For those of us who choose to live the Gospel our happiness can be eternal. Now we should talk some about living the Gospel to the best of our ability. How do we do that? Here are some scriptures. I believe if everyone was able to live by these scriptures alone. Everyone would make it to the Celestial Kingdom.

Mathew Chp. 22 Vs. 37, 38, and 39; Thou shalt love the lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and greatest commandment, and the second is like unto it. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as theyself. Doctrine and Covenants Chp. 98 V.11: And I give unto you a commandment, that ye shall forsake all evil, cleve onto all good, that ye shall live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Now comes the part where I'm supposed to expound on these scriptures. Why? So you will better understand them? Is that really necessary ? They aren't parable. They say what they mean. Straight and to the point. Do these things and happiness through living the Gospel will be yours. Brothers and sisters I know others more learned in the scriptures and more eloquent in speech, could hold your interest for much longer. But I'm losing steam. But I know I'm have alittle more time, so I am going to share a story with you.

The cowboy and the church.

One Sunday morning an olkd cowboy entered a church, just before services were to begin. Although the old man and his clothes were spotlessly clean, he wore jeans, a denim shirt, and boots that were very worn, and very ragged, in his hands he carried a worn out old hat, and an equally worn out Bible. The church he entered was in a very upscale part of the city. It was the largest and most beautiful church the old man had ever seen. The people of the congregation were all dressed with expensive clothes, and accessories. As the cowboy took his seat the others moved away from him.. No one greeted, spoke to, or welcomed him. They were appalled at his appearance, and did not attempt to hide it. The Preacher gave a long sermon about hellfire and brimstone, and a stern lecture on how much money the Church needed to do Gods work. As the old man was leaving the church, the preacher approached him, and asked the old cowboy to do him a favor. Before you come back in here again, have a talk with God, and ask him what he thinks would be the appropriate attire for worship here. The old man assured the preacher he would. The next Sunday he showed back up for the services wearing the same old ragged jeans boots shirt, and hat. Once again he was completely shunned and ignored. The preacher approached the man and said. " I thought I asked you to speak to God before you came back to our church." "I did" replied the cowboy. "If you spoke to God what did he tell you the proper attire should be before worshiping here." asked the preacher. " Well sir God told me he didn't have a clue what I should wear. He said he's never been in this church before." I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ.

I decided to go with Happiness through living the Gospel. But it says a lot about blessings.

Edited November 3, 2012 by circusboy01

[circusboy01]

Pam. Just so you know I edited my last post, and inserted my talk. Let me know what you think. But be kind;0) I haven't given very many talkes. Brother Ray