No I Won't!

[Bini]

I need some parental advice on my (almost) toddler.

My daughter has been fighting her bedtime. It started a couple nights ago. I've ruled out that she's unwell because (a) I've taken her temperature and she's normal and (b) once she's pulled out of her crib she's as happy as a hotdog in a bun. I do the usual routine of soothing and it does work but the moment she's laid back down - she throws a major fit! I'm not beside myself, I'm just a bit annoyed and dumbfounded, I'm not sure what's going on. Last night was daddy's turn to try and all she wanted to do was play with him. Which is what she did the night before when I was trying to get her to sleep. It was getting to be about 2 o'clock in the morning and I decided to bring her into our room. I figured that if we coslept, she'd just fall asleep, peacefully. Wrong. She decides it's time to torment daddy while he's trying to sleep (and he's up at 5 every morning.. Lol).

So. Some suggestions, please.

[applepansy]

She's learning to control MOM and DAD!.

Its time to teach her that bedtime is bedtime, in her bed....not yours. It takes some strong nerves of steel but you let her cry it out. Check on her every 10 minutes, Do not pick her up. Just calm her. Let her know you care and tell her its bedtime, give her a kiss and say good night. It will take a night or two. Slowly increase the time between from 10 minutes to 15 and on up. Do Not Give In... or you start all over and its harder.

[NeuroTypical]

Yeah, Mamma just wasn't the "let the kid cry herself to sleep and deal with it" type. We didn't take any of Applepansy's suggestions, and our first kid finally started sleeping through the night around age 4, the second one around 2. The first kid was hard - it was basically a nightly crying fit while daddy held her until she eventually passed out and slept. I'd count to 100 and restart the count whenever she moved or made noise. Once I could make it to 100, she'd stay asleep when I put her down - otherwise she'd wake up crying again and we'd be back to square one.

The 2nd kid would go to sleep as long as someone would hold her hand. They tell me this is pretty common. That's rough too - because you can substitute a mannequin hand after a while, but then you gotta deal with the kid waking up in a crib with a severed hand, and ain't nobody ever grew up to be president carrying that kind of baggage.

Hope you find something that works, but if you don't, take comfort that they'll eventually grow into things that allow you to sleep.

[Bini]

So CIO is acceptable once they're over a year? I did let her CIO as an infant (she was colicky and I was a first time mum) and I was told that it was a bad thing. Mind you, I have no regrets at this point, she turned out fine :) Okay, tonight I will let her CIO and see how that goes. I can do it but DH has a tougher time, only because he's a light sleeper and can't sleep if a clock is ticking! Haha.

[Bini]

LM, I wanted to Laugh but a Thank You was in order too. I can hold her and it solves the problem but once I even shift to lay her down - nu uh - not having it! I agree though, I guess this is just one of those things you test by trial and error.

[Guest DeborahC]

This is what I did and it worked great with my 3 sons.

I see Super Nanny doing the same thing now.

Read her a story, give her a drink.

Whatever your nightly ritual is going to be.

Then say "Time for bed!" and put her in her bed, kiss her goodnight, and walk away.

Sit about 5 feet away and read (scriptures?)

Do not look at her or interact with her, no matter how she protests.

(This is the hardest part)

If she gets out of the crib, stand up, pick her up, say "Time for bed!" and put her back in bed.

Walk away.

Do not talk to her, do not look at her, do not interact. (VERY IMPORTANT)

Sit back down and read.

Once she's asleep you can leave.

Each day you move further and further away until you are out of the room.

With my kids, this only took about a week.

But know that if you say, "Poor baby" or hug or kiss her or interact in ANY way once you start this, you undo all your good work.

Sitting nearby the first few days reassures her you are there and gradually weans her off of your presence.

The first few days are the hardest, then she gets the picture and it's simple.

[BadWolf]

1) Don't forget about 2yo molars.

I ALWAYS forget about 2yo molars, and then its face-palm after a couple weeks of Aaaaargh! In my family the common thread seems to be: as long as we're awake & busy, we're FINE! But when its quiet time the pain kills sleep so its Awake-Awake-Awake! time.

Ugh. Conversely, I feel exceptionally blessed to live in the era of Tylenol.

Conked. Out.

2) Growth Spurts!!!! My family has a bunch of fast growers (also slow / more normal growers). The fast growers have the added fun of also being borderline to full on hypoglycemic until they're done growing. Point being: The normal growers do the sleep through the night & 3 meals thing. The fast growers? Need something fat & protein rich RIGHT before bed (to avoid not falling asleep due to, or to avoid waking at oh-dark-thirty Starvin'o'the'Hunger ), and for a couple weeks for a growth spurt need a full meal in the middle of the night (wake Starvin'o'the'Hunger).

Its easy with the fast growers... Because one gets used to having food on hand and practically shoveling it in to keep them on par. Leftovers in the fridge ready to zap, bottles/sippies with either formula or full fat milk, ditto (LOVE milk-the-superfood! with proteins/lipids/carbs/vits/mins in it!!!). But the slow growers end up throwing is for a loop the few times (generally age 2, 6, 9, puberty) that THEIR bodies get the screaming feed me's.

My exhusband didn't have a lot of sympathy for hungry kids... But I remember being pregnant (growing bones, organs, muscles on a micro-scale, much less what KIDS are growing), with the screaming feed me's / must-have cravings. He insisted feeding hungry kids created bad habits. I've never found that to be the case. 2-3 weeks of feeding, and the spurt tapers off, and they're back to their regularly scheduled sleep habits. The whole 'Feeding on Demand' thing has always just WORKED for me. (I should note: I only have 1 biological child. But did kinship providing for some time). Nannying, though, for parents who insisted on water only (seriously it takes 30 seconds to rebrush teeth), has meant MONTHS of sleepless nights and cranky days. This is NOT a cure all, but when I finally got the approval to night feed 3 families toddlers... Their 'bad sleepers' & 'spirited children' overnight became the BEST sleepers and were no longer holy terrors in the daytime. Full bellies and good sleep works wonders!!!

((Again, I can't underscore enough: NOTHING works for everyone, and there are MANY 'best' ways of doing things. Not all hungry kids have sleep issues, and not all kids with sleep issues are hungry. These are PURELY my own experiences with the 8 Ive seen though toddler years. There is NO one/right way for every family, much less every child!!!))

3) We don't do 'Cry it out', per se. But when there's a contest of wills going on, I don't play. Because I 'win', period. (This also goes under the heading of 'never get emotionally invested in an argument with a child'. In cases like these, I don't play by (after checking for any true cause)... Walking. Away.

3.1) Common 'True Causes':

(Many of which you've already checked for... But I'm a bear if very little brain sometimes & need to list out most ... I'd say 'all' but always end up forgetting one, kwim?)

Medical / pain related (Tylenol Test)

- sick

- recovering (within 2 weeks of illness)

- ear infection

- sinus infection

- teething

- reflux

- solids too soon (only 50% of babies can digest solids at 6mo, 75% at 9mo, 99% at 12mo... Peds say "try" solids IF you want at 6mo, but parents often hear wrong)

- gas

- diaper rash / yeast infection

- UTI

- allergy

Others

- Growth Spurt / Hungry

- Overtired (put down 30-60 min earlier)

- Overstimulated (chill out routine)

- Too hot / Too cold (change clothes)

- Too small clothes or diaper (you'd be surprised how oftenTHIS happens, ditto above)

- schedule change (infants & toddlers will often adjust sleep schedule to be awake when parents are home... Even if that's night time. 'Going back to work curse' is the great sleeper is STILL a great sleeper, by napping in the daytime when parents are at work, and awake-awake-awake at night... I listed this under 'true' causes, because there's a fix for it... Even though its a pain.)

Alright... This probably isn't a COMPLETE list, but its the best I can do with a head cold.

[applepansy]

So CIO is acceptable once they're over a year? I did let her CIO as an infant (she was colicky and I was a first time mum) and I was told that it was a bad thing. Mind you, I have no regrets at this point, she turned out fine :) Okay, tonight I will let her CIO and see how that goes. I can do it but DH has a tougher time, only because he's a light sleeper and can't sleep if a clock is ticking! Haha.

Its ok to let them cry it out when they are old enough to manipulate Mom and Dad into getting what they want. From your post it sounds like she'd doing just that. She knows if she cries you will pick her up. She knows if she cries enough you'll put her in bed with you. She also knows if you're tired enough she can play in bed and get her way too. If she can think through all that.... yes, she's old enough to start learning boundaries and rules and who the boss is.

However, you have to live with this. So prayerfully decides what is best for your family.

My grandson is 4-1/2. We have nights when he can't sleep. Sometimes its a nightmare or sometimes its not feeling well. But sometimes its he can't sleep and he because of the neglect as an infant he can't get himself back to sleep. In those cases (rare) he sleeps with us or his daddy. He doesn't like to sleep with Daddy because Daddy lets the dog sleep on his bed and my grandson said "Daddy's bed smells like Copper" So...its not a bad alternative to sleep with Daddy, because he'll only do it when he really can't sleep or he's really scared and not just manipulating us.

Its never to early to teach children to be obedient.

Also, its never to early to start teaching children to self sooth. Infants can learn too. Shorter crying time under age 1.

Did you ever want the show Super Nanny? (british nanny named Jo) She used this technique to get children to stay in their bed or to not cry all night. Maybe you can find an episode to watch so you can see how its done. The child should never feel you've left her...that's why you go back in every few minutes.

LM's approach works too. Kids will eventually learn to be "grown up" but its really hard on parents and the child has a harder time learning to self sooth as effectively.

[Wingnut]

So CIO is acceptable once they're over a year? I did let her CIO as an infant (she was colicky and I was a first time mum) and I was told that it was a bad thing. Mind you, I have no regrets at this point, she turned out fine :) Okay, tonight I will let her CIO and see how that goes. I can do it but DH has a tougher time, only because he's a light sleeper and can't sleep if a clock is ticking! Haha.

I hate CIO. I really do.

My first slept really well -- very minimal problems, nothing that was anything more than a phase that she just needed to grow out of. I breastfed her until 10.5 months when I simply dried up one day. She did fine with the adjustment.

My second is another story. She was born just before Thanksgiving, so she's a month or so younger than yours, Bini. I breastfed her for longer, for a few reasons. (1) I came to actually enjoy it a little more; (2) She's my last, so I had a harder time letting go; (3) she wasn't sleeping well, and I became a pacifier during the night. At about 12 months and three weeks, she bit my nipple one night while I was putting her to bed. She'd done it before, but this time she really clamped down (with her new top tooth), and wouldn't release. I finally got her off, and then she did it again. I put her in bed and left the room. I went back downstairs crying and doubled over in the worst pain I've ever experienced, and declared to my husband that I was unequivocally done breastfeeding. She was already drinking cow's milk, and I'd already reached an emotional point several weeks earlier where I was okay with letting it go, so things were easily in place.

The next few nights were pretty rough, though. She wouldn't take milk in a sippy cup from me, only from my husband. He can sleep anytime, anywhere, but once he's woken up in the night, he's up. She he was groggy and grumpy for a few days, but after about 3 nights or so, she was sleeping through the night. Prior to that, she'd been waking up sometimes six times a night still.

But we had to let her cry it out. It was really hard, because I've always been fundamentally opposed to it, and my husband (for the most part) also has been. But there wasn't really much else we could do. If it was just a whimpering, bored, non-specific cry, we let it go. I mentioned the sippy cup, though -- you know the differences in your own child's cry, and you know when they really mean it. The hardest part of CIO is waiting. You want to go comfort your child when they cry, but the longer you wait to go in there, the longer you are helping her eventually learn to soothe herself.

Adjust according to your needs, of course. It was a pretty rough start for us. The first night, she didn't wear herself down with the crying -- she only got wound tighter.

[BadWolf]

LM, I wanted to Laugh but a Thank You was in order too. I can hold her and it solves the problem but once I even shift to lay her down - nu uh - not having it! I agree though, I guess this is just one of those things you test by trial and error.

This screams Ears / Sinuses to me.

If she's FINE upright, but wakes &/or is a mess when laid flat... That's nearly always an ear infection or sinus infection. Both of which are largely asymptomatic (no fever, sniffles, coughing, etc.). During the day & upright both drain... But lay flat and they're miserable.

Meaning Id schedule a Ped visit for the otoscope!!!

[Bini]

Badwolf, I should clarify.

What I meant by that was she's fine once pulled out of the crib. If I cradle and rock her for X amount of time, she'll gradually doze and then fall asleep but the moment I bend over the crib to put her in - she's wide awake and screaming bloody murder. It's funny a bit, only because I'll tip her back up (as if to pull her back out) and she'll almost immediately stop fussing. But lastnight she wouldn't even doze off. She just wanted to be let out and free to run around.

[Bini]

Update.

Last night was the worst night yet. Once put down for bed time, the crying bloody murder started immediately, and continued (I clocked it) from 9pm to 5am. There was a brief period around midnight when she went quiet but she pretty much wailed all night. I had checked on her periodically as suggested and even sat in there paying no attention to her for about 15 minutes. Made no difference this go around but it's only the third night. Gah!

[EarlJibbs]

I cant say that we had it last from 9pm to 5am. That seems like there may be more going on.

My wife and I used to play Uno in bed while waiting for the child to stop crying. It took a few weeks, but it worked okay for 3 out of 4 kids.

Our first kid was terrible! he would get out of the crib, and cry at our door. I got him a toddler bed hoping he would be more excited and that backfired. I eventually started sleeping on his floor so he would sleep in his bed. I would never stay there the whole night. When I woke up I would crawl into my own bed. It was a nightmare. I wouldnt wish it on any other person.