Not Another Gun Thread

[Bini]

Alas, here it is.

Man raises questions after carrying rifle into JC Penney

Lots of mixed feelings on this from people all over (see Twitter or Fb).

Edited January 18, 2013 by Bini
Fixed link and added image

[Guest]

Well a rifle is just silly and kind of careless.

[Bini]

Well a rifle is just silly and kind of careless.

I agree. I respect the law allowing people to carry concealed or unconcealed but let's use some common sense. An assault rifle is scary for most people, period. I would feel very uncomfortable, too, especially with my family. After the recent mass shootings, carrying a gun like this and in this fashion, is merely making a statement and wanting heads to turn. I think this particular situation presented by this man is unnecessary.

[Bini]

It was said that (and you may be able to see via photographs) that this man had another weapon strapped to him, with additional ammunition clips. Gees.. I think the reaction from the average shopper is a valid one. Who's to know whether he's crazed or not? Just stick around and wait to find out? Trust this perfect stranger geared up like Rambo that he's sane and safe? Good news is he wasn't a psycho but he's not being very tactful.

[LittleWyvern]

Maybe I spent too much time in San Bernardino, but if I saw somebody in a mall like that I'd get out of there as quick as I could. I think it's safe to assume that somebody who does something like this just to get attention knows very little about gun safety.

EDIT: Your link is broken. Here's a fixed one.

EDIT 2: Do yourself a favor and don't read the comments. A open carry movement is brewing there.

Edited January 18, 2013 by LittleWyvern

[Anddenex]

If it isn't against the law, then why complain? It follows the same argument, guns do not harm people, people harm people, so whether it is an assault rifle, a handgun, or a shotgun -- it is the same.

Carrying an assault rifle into a store has very little to do with gun safety.

[skalenfehl]

What!? No crazy guy/mass shootings? Something's not right.

[pam]

It would definitely make me nervous. I think I'd be getting out as quickly as possible.

[LittleWyvern]

Carrying an assault rifle into a store has very little to do with gun safety.

Carrying an assault rifle into a crowded mall just to get some media attention has a lot to go with gun safety. Unless I'm mistaken, guns used for self defense are supposed to be treated with utmost respect and handled carefully, not bandied about like it's a status symbol or a measure of how "patriotic" you are.

[Bini]

If it isn't against the law, then why complain? It follows the same argument, guns do not harm people, people harm people, so whether it is an assault rifle, a handgun, or a shotgun -- it is the same.

Carrying an assault rifle into a store has very little to do with gun safety.

If you read my statements, I made VALID points, and not just whining about guns! I even disclaimed that I respect the law to carry. That said, this man is PURPOSELY trying to bring attention to himself. To me, that is not RESPONSIBLE or SENSIBLE gun ownership or carrying. And as I also stated, the choice of gun is yelling for attention and makes MANY uncomfortable because these kinds of guns are typically associated with crazy mass shootings -- it's not unreasonable to be concerned if you saw someone parading around armed like this. Yes -- PARADING. This same man has paraded around before and enjoys the attention he causes.

My BIL carries and thinks this man makes a bad image for everyone else that carries.

[Anddenex]

Carrying an assault rifle into a crowded mall just to get some media attention has a lot to go with gun safety. Unless I'm mistaken, guns used for self defense are supposed to be treated with utmost respect and handled carefully, not bandied about like it's a status symbol or a measure of how "patriotic" you are.

Correct, guns are supposed to treated with the utmost respect and handled carefully.

From the picture I saw the gun is handled correctly, and the gun is handled carefully. Taking a gun into a crowded mall, if within the law, has very little to do with gun safety.

This has nothing to do with gun safety.

[skalenfehl]

I've lived in Riverdale and I've shopped in that same dept. store. In any case, if I was that lady taking those pictures, I wouldn't have been nervous. In this particular instance, the point is not so much that he is exercising his right to open carry, but that someone open carried without incident. You will KNOW if and when you are in danger from someone who is "carrying" a firearm.

[Bini]

I've lived in Riverdale and I've shopped in that same dept. store. In any case, if I was that lady taking those pictures, I wouldn't have been nervous. In this particular instance, the point is not so much that he is exercising his right to open carry, but that someone open carried without incident. You will KNOW if and when you are in danger from someone who is "carrying" a firearm.

Right. People should just "know" whether or not someone is a psychopath and proceed with NO caution. Makes perfect sense.

[skalenfehl]

Right. People should just "know" whether or not someone is a psychopath and proceed with NO caution. Makes perfect sense.

I did not say anything about not proceeding with no caution. You are putting words in my mouth.

[LittleWyvern]

Correct, guns are supposed to treated with the utmost respect and handled carefully.

From the picture I saw the gun is handled correctly, and the gun is handled carefully. Taking a gun into a crowded mall, if within the law, has very little to do with gun safety.

This has nothing to do with gun safety.

Maybe I just have a different perspective on gun safety? To me, gun safety encompasses a lot more than "not shooting people you shouldn't." It also includes properly handling a gun, proper maintenance, and knowing proper etiquette and decorum when it comes to handling a gun around the general public. Slinging a rifle over your shoulder doesn't exactly scream "EVERYTHING IS PERFECTLY FINE" to me (in fact, the gesture screams instead "I'M AT WAR." If I'm up to date on my conspiracy theories, he may very well think he's "at war" with the government, but I digress). If that gun is loaded, it's not exactly being aimed away from people. Do we know if the safety is even on? I'm not trying to argue that the man doesn't know how to shoot the gun properly, but that's a small subset of being responsible with the guns you own. Yes, it's legal to do this, but since when has "legal" been equivalent with "the right thing to do"?

Now, before I get pounced on, I'm perfectly fine with people owning and using guns in a safe, responsible way. If that makes me somehow anti-2nd Amendment, then whatever. This guy gives responsible gun owners everywhere a bad name.

[Anddenex]

If you read my statements, I made VALID points, and not just whining about guns! I even disclaimed that I respect the law to carry.

My comment Bini was a general statement -- not directed at you.

That said, this man is PURPOSELY trying to bring attention to himself. To me, that is not RESPONSIBLE or SENSIBLE gun ownership or carrying.

I understand, this is your personal opinion regarding responsible and sensible gun ownership, and that is fine.

People seek to make points everywhere. His point is a valid one, in his opinion. The government is trying to ban all assault rifles. The man easily makes a point, assault riftles aren't dangerous, people are.

In his eyes, people who think he is irresponsible, are the irresponsible ones and they do not understand the law.

And as I also stated, the choice of gun is yelling for attention and makes MANY uncomfortable because these kinds of guns are typically associated with crazy mass shootings -- it's not unreasonable to be concerned if you saw someone parading around armed like this. Yes -- PARADING. This same man has paraded around before and enjoys the attention he causes.

I never said it is unreasonable to be concerned. I, myself, if I was in this store would have been cautious around this man. Yet, people who commit crimes typically hide their guns until they begin shooting. People who openly carry, typically, we don't have to worry about.

If within his rights, according to the law, then he can "parade" his gun as much as he wants.

My BIL carries and thinks this man makes a bad image for everyone else that carries.

OK, I understand this. Would I do it myself, no. Is it within his rights according to the law, yes.

[Bini]

I did not say anything about not proceeding with no caution. You are putting words in my mouth.

So let's take those words out of your mouth.

The reactions of the average person (calling such incidents in, aka, taking precaution) is valid and reasonable?

[Bini]

Well, we all know that just because the law allows it, doesn't mean it's acceptable. To reiterate, I respect the law to carry concealed or unconcealed but certain guns, specifically assault rifles, tend to cause mass hysteria among mainstream public. Right or wrong, it does. Why would a SENSIBLE gun owner choose to do this? Carry something more reasonable and less flashy, looking for media attention. Like I said, he's done this before for "the head turns".

[skalenfehl]

So let's take those words out of your mouth.

The reactions of the average person (calling such incidents in, aka, taking precaution) is valid and reasonable?

That is correct. A reasonable person should take precautions. Now continuing with my previous post, I would have approached him, asked him about it, his views on open carry, what statement he was seeking to make that day, and yes, I'd ask him if it's loaded. Would I make such statements? No. But I have eaten in restaurants and been in public places where people have open carried. But that's me. If others are nervous or paranoid, then yes, by all means, exit the place immediately.

[Bini]

Maybe I just have a different perspective on gun safety? To me, gun safety encompasses a lot more than "not shooting people you shouldn't." It also includes properly handling a gun, proper maintenance, and knowing proper etiquette and decorum when it comes to handling a gun around the general public. Slinging a rifle over your shoulder doesn't exactly scream "EVERYTHING IS PERFECTLY FINE" to me (in fact, the gesture screams instead "I'M AT WAR." If I'm up to date on my conspiracy theories, he may very well think he's "at war" with the government, but I digress). If that gun is loaded, it's not exactly being aimed away from people. Do we know if the safety is even on? I'm not trying to argue that the man doesn't know how to shoot the gun properly, but that's a small subset of being responsible with the guns you own. Yes, it's legal to do this, but since when has "legal" been equivalent with "the right thing to do"?

Now, before I get pounced on, I'm perfectly fine with people owning and using guns in a safe, responsible way. If that makes me somehow anti-2nd Amendment, then whatever. This guy gives responsible gun owners everywhere a bad name.

Bravo!

Well said.

[Anddenex]

Maybe I just have a different perspective on gun safety? To me, gun safety encompasses a lot more than "not shooting people you shouldn't." It also includes properly handling a gun, proper maintenance, and knowing proper etiquette and decorum when it comes to handling a gun around the general public. Slinging a rifle over your shoulder doesn't exactly scream "EVERYTHING IS PERFECTLY FINE" to me (in fact, the gesture screams instead "I'M AT WAR." If I'm up to date on my conspiracy theories, he may very well think he's "at war" with the government, but I digress). If that gun is loaded, it's not exactly being aimed away from people. Do we know if the safety is even on? I'm not trying to argue that the man doesn't know how to shoot the gun properly, but that's a small subset of being responsible with the guns you own. Yes, it's legal to do this, but since when has "legal" been equivalent with "the right thing to do"?

Now, before I get pounced on, I'm perfectly fine with people owning and using guns in a safe, responsible way. If that makes me somehow anti-2nd Amendment, then whatever. This guy gives responsible gun owners everywhere a bad name.

Oh, fun...fun, time to pounce -- Just Kidding.

It appears we have relatively the same understanding regarding gun safety. However, I honestly would be more concerned if this man had his hand on the gun handle and trigger and the left hand (assuming he is right handed) on the barrel, or the other hand position.

Now I think that is not safe, and that would be concerning. When not using these guns, the shoulder strap is a standard way of carrying these weapons.

With the shoulder strap, the gun isn't being aimed at anyone. No hand on trigger. No hand even on the gun. No one in danger. I would hope he would have the safety on, but I don't know. I am thinking the gun safety was on, for reason that if trying to prove a point they will typically make sure all things are safe before making their point.

My personal opinion, I don't think he needed to bring the gun to the store. If I had one of these guns, it would be in my closet, not at the store shoulder strapped.

I, however, am honestly more concerned regarding the person who has an assault rifle in a duffel bag, verses over his shoulder without having a hand on his gun.

[Bini]

What I appreciate about my sister and BIL is that they admit not all gun owners are created equal. This guy's a fool for presenting himself the way he did, and makes other gun owners cringe. I guess what blows me away are the people that feel this guy is within reason. Yes, within right (I admit that) but within reason, no.

[pam]

As I mentioned earlier, someone walking in with something like that slung over their shoulder would scare me to death. Perhaps it's because I'm just all too familiar with something like this. Not that I was there..but I lost friends and brothers and sisters of people I went to high school with. This was only about 3 miles from where I grew up.

San Ysidro massacre: July 18, 1984 | UTSanDiego.com

[skalenfehl]

People seek to make points everywhere. His point is a valid one, in his opinion. The government is trying to ban all assault rifles. The man easily makes a point, assault riftles aren't dangerous, people are.

Agreed.

[skalenfehl]

Objectively speaking, is he a fool simply because you say so or if enough people say so? I just want to make sure that I understand you correctly.

This guy's a fool for presenting himself the way he did...