Not Another Gun Thread

[NeuroTypical]

One the news last night one person was quoted as saying something about the gun just going off by itself. I need a "rolling my eyes" smiley. My husband rarely comments on TV stuff but that got his attention. Only someone unfamiliar with guns would say something like that. They don't just go off. That's a Hollywood thing.

Indeed. Anyone remember Bloom County?

[Just_A_Guy]

Re assymetrical warfare: It's one thing to have those marvelous, advanced weapons. It's another thing to feel you can get away with using them. We know Syria has chemical weapons, but thus far Assad hasn't used them against his insurgency. Similarly, we might whole-heartedly agree with a SWAT-style raid on a cult compound in--say--Waco, Texas; but if the ATF shows up with a freakin' tank and sets the place on fire with women and children still inside - you lose a good bit of political support, which ties your hands when the next group of rebels comes along.

[LittleWyvern]

A demonstration almost, but not quite, as outrageous as wearing pants in church.

[Running away now . . . ]

[NeuroTypical]

Pretty intricate and delicate way of saying "no", isn't it. I mean, it's not the military's fault or anything, it's just the reality of the situation that massive 1st world superpowers just can't win in Afghanistan no matter how large the body counts. You just go hide in a cave and come out after the cold season, to see the only change is some of your dumber buddies aren't around any more and US is a few hundred million dollars poorer.

See, you don't need your big semi-automatic weapons. You just need a cave. So why object to the law?

That should be obvious, because I LIKE my dumber buddies.

[Backroads]

Yeah... They "go off by themselves" when someone pulls. on. the. trigger., or someone has gone to the extreme effort of disassembling/screwing around with the trigger mechanism so its vibration sensitive instead of 5-30pound of pressure, puts it back together, and then is SHOCKED that the trigger is vibration sensitive. Just shocked.

Sometime ago, the rifle my husband was teaching me to use did discharge (in the house, put a nice hole in the bookshelf) and I swear I was nowhere near the trigger. But I also say I had no idea what I was doing. I was learning... and Husband may not be the best teacher. Scared me half to death.

[BadWolf]

Sometime ago, the rifle my husband was teaching me to use did discharge (in the house, put a nice hole in the bookshelf) and I swear I was nowhere near the trigger. But I also say I had no idea what I was doing. I was learning... and Husband may not be the best teacher. Scared me half to death.

One thing that does happen fairly frequently with even seasoned users is that an article of clothing catches.

If you think of the number of rare times you've caught yourself on a door, drawer, or gutted your purse on accident reaching in but your sleeve drags everything out (usually in public, with tampons, or somewhere quiet and its keys) etc... Its the same thing.

Its one reason why comp shooters tend to wear skintight clothes or tops at least. Not for the athletic part , but for minimizing something getting hung up on something else.

I've see 2 clothing related accidental discharges. One was a toggle on a string that slid through the assembly, the other was a fold in a pair of bdu pants. Both were pretty freak accidents. Happens a LOT when women put pistols loose in their purse, though.

[Guest DeborahC]

Accidents can happen with any weapon - usually it's caused by human error.

I know personally of three shotgun accidents.

One was a guy who got out of the truck after deer hunting, and his "unloaded" rifle discharged, shooting my friend in the head! Amazingly, it did not kill him and he's ok now.

Two was my ex=husband's aunt. She was in her 80's but when she was a young girl, her father was "bothering" her so she took a shotgun to bed and shot her own leg off in the night.

Third was my grandfather's brother. He did a really stupid thing and leaned on his shotgun while tying his shoe. Blew his arm off. Nearly bled to death, but did survive and lived into his 90's.

There are occasional firearm malfunctions - not human error.

There is one weapon in particular notorious for firing spontaneously -- I can't recall the name of it.

But usually it's us.

That said, I still don't believe the answer is to ban weapons.

Edited January 18, 2013 by DeborahC

[Backroads]

I'm quite sure I did something to that rifle.

[ploomf]

Guy in the photo is an idiot. If I was in the store when he walked in I would leave, just drop my items wherever I happened to be standing and walk out, if I was in the middle of a transaction I would tell the clerk to cancel it and walk out. I'm wouldn't stick around to find out if a guy with an assault rifle means me any harm or not.

[ploomf]

I haven't read the whole thread and probably won't.

One the news last night one person was quoted as saying something about the gun just going off by itself. I need a "rolling my eyes" smiley. My husband rarely comments on TV stuff but that got his attention. Only someone unfamiliar with guns would say something like that. They don't just go off. That's a Hollywood thing.

I wouldn't have been concerned at all if I'd been there and I could have been. I'm in Riverdale frequently. I would prefer open carry to concealed carry.

Tell that to this guys son.

Man Accidentally Shoots Son Outside Gun Store - Says he didn't realize bullet was still in the chamber

[mirkwood]

Well a rifle is just silly and kind of careless.

How is it carelss?

[mirkwood]

The man easily makes a point, assault riftles aren't dangerous, people are.

"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." —LT COL Jeff Cooper USMC, The Art of the Rifle

[mirkwood]

FTR, I am NOT a fan of open carry.

[mirkwood]

the weapon used in Newtown could fire 45 rounds per minute. At that rate, with a 30 round clip, you can put out 440 bullets in 10 minutes. With a 10 round clip, it's 418 rounds. Whereas manual reloading of the chamber still lowers it to 300 rounds in ten minutes.

So requiring manual action is still far more effective at slowing down the shooter.

Do you honestly believe in a mass murder type shooting that the difference between 300 rounds and 440 rounds is going to make a significant difference?

[Blackmarch]

I've lived in Riverdale and I've shopped in that same dept. store. In any case, if I was that lady taking those pictures, I wouldn't have been nervous. In this particular instance, the point is not so much that he is exercising his right to open carry, but that someone open carried without incident. You will KNOW if and when you are in danger from someone who is "carrying" a firearm.

If there is live ammo, then anyone within the vicinity of a discharge is in danger. It just tends to be pretty small risk most of the time.

And you'll know someone poses a threat after they start shooting (unless they are one of the types that like to announce early they are going to start killing people)..... Most of the time that will be as soon as someone is shot. And thats supposing that the individual who did the shooting is being obvious about it or that you have a good eye and close enough to the scene to witness it.

If i was the lady i'd be calling the cops, then getting out of there. If I was store management i'd be calling cops or mall security to escort the guy while he was there. Especially as

1) never assume a weapon is unloaded

2) his ammo clip was in the gun

3) the gun was not in a near vertical position

After that i might ask him to take such steps such as unloading the clip and demonstrating the chamber was empty while he was on the store premises.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Blackmarch

[NeuroTypical]

If there is live ammo, then anyone within the vicinity of a discharge is in danger. It just tends to be pretty small risk most of the time.

I can't really agree with the use of the word "danger" here.

Consider: "If there are keys and gas, then anyone within the vicinity of a car is in danger."

"If there are kitchen knives, then anyone within throwing distance of the kitchen is in danger."

"If there is electricity, then anyone within the vicinity of an electrical outlet is in danger."

Depending on who is estimating, there are around two-hundred and seventy million privately owned firearms. That's 88 firearms for every 100 people. A portion of these are being carried around legally by citizens - around six million citizens. You'd think if "anyone within the vicinity of a discharge" was in danger, we'd here about unintentional shootings more. As things stand now, (for example), about as many children die each year in gun accidents as by pulling TVs down on top of themselves. Yes, the US has a problem with gun violence, but it's not "anyone within the vicinity of a discharge" who gets shot - it's the people who get intentionally shot.

Around six million conceal-carry permit holders. Consider - you're surrounded by them pretty much wherever you go. They've got live ammo in their firearms. You can't see them because the guns are concealed. But you don't seem to think you're in danger until you can see the weapon? How come?

Although I think open carry people are mostly immature bratty teenagers, I'm in more danger from the bratty teenager behind the wheel of a car.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Dravin]

Just to clarify, when people are talking about open carry they are talking about open carrying a weapon to make a political point in a populated location? That is to say people are not talking about the guy out hunting with his rifle slung over his shoulder or the guy hiking in bear country with the .44 magnum 'bear repellent' at his hip?

[mirkwood]

Correct.

[Blackmarch]

I can't really agree with the use of the word "danger" here.

Consider: "If there are keys and gas, then anyone within the vicinity of a car is in danger."

"If there are kitchen knives, then anyone within throwing distance of the kitchen is in danger."

"If there is electricity, then anyone within the vicinity of an electrical outlet is in danger."

Depending on who is estimating, there are around two-hundred and seventy million privately owned firearms. That's 88 firearms for every 100 people. A portion of these are being carried around legally by citizens - around six million citizens. You'd think if "anyone within the vicinity of a discharge" was in danger, we'd here about unintentional shootings more. As things stand now, (for example), about as many children die each year in gun accidents as by pulling TVs down on top of themselves. Yes, the US has a problem with gun violence, but it's not "anyone within the vicinity of a discharge" who gets shot - it's the people who get intentionally shot.

Around six million conceal-carry permit holders. Consider - you're surrounded by them pretty much wherever you go. They've got live ammo in their firearms. You can't see them because the guns are concealed. But you don't seem to think you're in danger until you can see the weapon? How come?

what makes you think that makes me comfortable? I deal with it because thats how things are. how i've seen lots of people store their chemicals, tools, electrical appliances (and how a few treat their ammo), doesnt help much either. I just do not want to be around when someone wants to cut loose, and the good guys choose to go on offensive defense, or they get just the right mix of events/situations that lead up to a statistic.

I think a gas can sitting around would be more dangerous in general, but live ammo is still has potental to be dangerous as long as there is an explosive mix contained within a sealed package and still has to be treated as such. I've always treated things like full gas cans, live ammo, and various chemicals very carefully because of their potential. Same with power tools, things that can have exposed current things of that nature.

You always need to have a respect for such, otherwise you start take taking things for granted, and then you slip up, and something will come back to bite you in the rear.

Theres always a danger when dealing with those sort of things, even if 99% of the time nothing happens

Last i heard there are more deaths due to accidents because of poor judgement in some regard than there are due to homicide.

Although I think open carry people are mostly immature bratty teenagers, I'm in more danger from the bratty teenager behind the wheel of a car.

at this moment you would be correct; there are far more bratty teenagers behind wheels any given second than there are carrying unconcealed weapons in public.

In the case of the case where the guy was in the store with an AR I'd think his mental state would be the thing i'd be worrying most about. But to say that there is no danger would be a statement i could not agree with, nor would it be totally accurate.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Blackmarch

[NeuroTypical]

You always need to have a respect for such, otherwise you start take taking things for granted, and then you slip up, and something will come back to bite you in the rear.

Agree completely.

As I idly think about the people I know personally, three have lost fingers via power tools, maybe a dozen have been injured in car accidents, a few have been injured during military service, at least three fatal car accidents, and three suicides (one drugs, two gun).

I suppose I can see where you're coming from - we live on a planet full of potentially dangerous stuff.

[marshac]

I would feel very uncomfortable, too, especially with my family.

I carry concealed sometimes, and yet I too would feel uncomfortable. Sometimes I also feel uncomfortable when folks open carry- Are they trying to prove something? Did they get turned down for a CCW? I also wonder what their training is and how 'safe' they are with their firearm.... I know I follow the rules for gun safety, but I know not all owners do.... so when I have my kids around and some guy who looks kinda sketchy has a gun in a holster, my spidey sense does begin to tingle a bit.

Last thought- if I were on the left and wanted to help bring about stricter gun laws, I would do exactly what this guy is doing- push to the ragged edge of social decorum yet remaining "legal" in order to reign in what's legal and what's not.

[NightSG]

Well, we all know that just because the law allows it, doesn't mean it's acceptable. To reiterate, I respect the law to carry concealed or unconcealed but certain guns, specifically assault rifles, tend to cause mass hysteria among mainstream public.

One could say the same thing about the mainstream public reaction to a lot of religious practices...

[NightSG]

Agree completely.

As I idly think about the people I know personally, three have lost fingers via power tools, maybe a dozen have been injured in car accidents, a few have been injured during military service, at least three fatal car accidents, and three suicides (one drugs, two gun).

Agreed; the worst gun injury I've seen was when I slammed a double barreled shotgun shut without getting my thumb clear of the latch first. It took hours to get all the blood off the gun, and I still missed the dove. I'd learned to be safe as concerns the muzzle, but I'd grown complacent about the dangers of the breech.

[mirkwood]

A well written letter by US Special Forces operators. A long but worthwhile read.

A Letter From The Special Forces Community Concerning The Second Amendment - Articles - Articles - News - Awesome Shit My Drill Sergeant Said