Pope Rethinks Priesthood Celibacy

[Bini]

I woke up groggily to an interesting news caption: Celibacy and Priests. It sounds like the new Pope is considering changing the age-old rule that priests must be celibate. I'm sure this is a discussion that will pretty soon hit the fan and make all kinds of global noise but until then, as speculation, what are your thoughts? Are you surprised or not surprised? And how do you think this would affect the Catholic church as a whole?

[selek]

I woke up groggily to an interesting news caption: Celibacy and Priests. It sounds like the new Pope is considering changing the age-old rule that priests must be celibate. I'm sure this is a discussion that will pretty soon hit the fan and make all kinds of global noise but until then, as speculation, what are your thoughts? Are you surprised or not surprised? And how do you think this would affect the Catholic church as a whole?

Citation?

Unless/until we hear something official from the Vatican, it sounds to me either like wishful thinking or a clueless press type trying to strong-arm the Vatican into yielding to modern "sensibilities".

There's been a lot of that in the press lately, mostly from lapsed-Catholics who have placed their politics ahead of their faith.

From Peggy Fletcher Stack to the BSA "policy change" to E.J. Dionne demanding that the Church elect a female "pope", there have been a lot of self-indulgent idiots out their trying to create headlines in order to "create" the sort of changes they'd like to see.

They seem to have forgotten that their job is to report the news, rather than create it.

[Anddenex]

If Catholics believe the Pope to be similar to our Prophet then it shouldn't have any negative affect on those who sincerely believe in their faith, nor the Catholic Church.

Others, may mock and make snide remarks regarding them, which will ultimately represent the lack of goodness in the hearts of individuals who are making these comments.

I am honestly more shocked that this has lasted for so long.

This would be a great question for StephenVH, a devout Catholic, and one who appears very knowledgeable in his studies of the Catholic faith.

[Bini]

Selek, as stated this is speculation. That said, the Pope had talked about his thoughts on the issue last year in this article.

Anddenex, we have several Catholic members on this forum that I hope to hear from very soon.

[Guest]

Yep, another news reporter making ado about nothing.

What REALLY happened:

The new Pope merely explained that Priesthood Celibacy is not doctrine but policy like it has been since the beginning of Church History, hence it CAN change.

And then, of course, the reporter wrote: All the previous Popes were not open to discussing it so THIS Pope seems like he is willing to change it because he discussed it.

Gee weez.

[Guest]

Am I correct in my understanding that y'all are asking the Catholics if it is true that the Pope is rethinking celibacy?

The answer is simply No. This new Pope named himself after Saint Francis of Assissi for a reason. Celibacy is very low on the radar.

But, if you're Catholic, then you should know that priesthood celibacy is a policy that can change when God decides it is time for it to change. Catholics have as much faith that God runs the Catholic Church as the Mormons have in God running their Church.

[Bini]

Am I correct in my understanding that y'all are asking the Catholics if it is true that the Pope is rethinking celibacy?

I am asking everyone what they think and feel regarding this speculation. And IF it were to come to pass, how would it affect the Catholic church. Any feedback from active Catholics would be great, too.

[selek]

Selek, as stated this is speculation.

Yeah- I caught that part. You also said you woke up to a headline/caption on the subject, so I was wondering what/where you saw it.

That said, the Pope had talked about his thoughts on the issue last year in this article.

My take on the issue is the same as Anatess's: a reporter taking the then-Cardinal's statement as some sort of sooth-saying about the future.

That's not reporting- that's editorializing and attempting to wag-the-dog.

Still, assuming the policy does change, it might be a good thing, or not:

As I understand it (and StephenVR or others may correct me at their leisure), the Catholic Church has had a hard time recruiting a new generation of priests, which has led to the laity assuming a more involved role.

In theory, at least, an easing of the celibacy requirements might help alleviate that problem.

On the other hand, it might also fundamentally alter the nature of the Catholic priesthood.

As any leader (military or civilian) can attest, those who are "married to their job" (in this case, priests and nuns who are "married to the Church") tend to be more focused, more mission-oriented, and less distracted than their counterparts with flesh-and-blood wives and children.

For my own "expert" opinion (no refunds given), I think the only real negative effect would be among those who assumed that their agitation spurred the change, rather than inspiration from On High.

IMNSHO, the appearance/perception that the Church caved on this matter would be just as damaging, IMO, as an actual capitulation.

Edited March 22, 2013 by selek

[Bini]

Yeah- I caught that part. You also said you woke up to a headline/caption on the subject, so I was wondering what/where you saw it.

Saw it on NBC Today Show.

[MarginOfError]

My understanding of the situation is that Pope Francis has no intention of changing this policy, but his statement does put him on record and a Pope who thinks that this need not continue indefinitely. Essentially, it opens the door for further discussion and to the potential of a change.

From what I understand based on conversations with other Catholics and an Episcopalian*, the policy originally came about as a response to priests bequeathing Church property to their children. Since there were no clear legal methods to defend the property of the Church, it instituted the policy to prevent this practice. If that is the case, then the current legal systems do a lot to prevent this kind of action, and so celibacy would no longer be necessary to protect the Church's property.

As the Church begins to struggle more and more with recruiting and retaining priests, I expect they will make such an acknowledgement and abandon the celibacy requirement.

*It might be strange to be getting information from an Episcopalian, but this particular person is the son (and grandson) of Episcopalian ministers who were very well educated in different religions.

[Bini]

MOE, thanks for sharing that. I hadn't hear of any such thing but find it very interesting. I wonder if this is mainstream information among Catholics. I'm not sure that the Catholics I know, know this.

[SteveVH]

I am asking everyone what they think and feel regarding this speculation. And IF it were to come to pass, how would it affect the Catholic church. Any feedback from active Catholics would be great, too.

Celibacy is a discipline, not a doctrine. We have had many married priests, bishops and even a few popes, in our history. Even today, those who have converted from the Anglican faith and are already married priests within that faith tradition are allowed to become Catholic priests and remain married. Also, in the Eastern rite Catholic Church as well as the Eastern Orthodox, priests are allowed to be married.

This is not a fatih issue, so to answer your question it would not affect the beliefs of Catholics in any way. This is a discipline, however, that works very well and I can pretty much guarantee you it will not change. I think the person reporting this was probably ignorant of the Catholic stance on this issue and, being surprised to learn that it is something that could change, misinterpreted that to mean that it was being considered for change.

[SteveVH]

Am I correct in my understanding that y'all are asking the Catholics if it is true that the Pope is rethinking celibacy?

The answer is simply No. This new Pope named himself after Saint Francis of Assissi for a reason. Celibacy is very low on the radar.

But, if you're Catholic, then you should know that priesthood celibacy is a policy that can change when God decides it is time for it to change. Catholics have as much faith that God runs the Catholic Church as the Mormons have in God running their Church.

Correct. Not only is it low on the radar, I don't think it even shows up as a blip. This is not an issue the Church is in the least concerned about.

[SteveVH]

Citation?

Unless/until we hear something official from the Vatican, it sounds to me either like wishful thinking or a clueless press type trying to strong-arm the Vatican into yielding to modern "sensibilities".

There's been a lot of that in the press lately, mostly from lapsed-Catholics who have placed their politics ahead of their faith.

From Peggy Fletcher Stack to the BSA "policy change" to E.J. Dionne demanding that the Church elect a female "pope", there have been a lot of self-indulgent idiots out their trying to create headlines in order to "create" the sort of changes they'd like to see.

They seem to have forgotten that their job is to report the news, rather than create it.

You couldn't be more correct.

[NeuroTypical]

I've heard more than a few Catholics express StephenVH's opinion.

Current: "God wants celebrate priesthood? Ok."

Possible future: "God is ok with a married priesthood now? Ok."

Sounds like a perfectly tenable position to hold. Especially from the point of view of a Mormon, with our history of God instituting, then ending, the practice of polygamy.

There doesn't seem to be an issue here. Not with Catholic adherents, not with people who study Catholicism.

[SteveVH]

As I understand it (and StephenVR or others may correct me at their leisure), the Catholic Church has had a hard time recruiting a new generation of priests, which has led to the laity assuming a more involved role.

The laity, while it can do many things to help our priest, cannot in any way take over duties which can only be administered by an ordained priest. We actually have a surge in vocations to the priesthood here in America and a huge surge in priests from Africa. It takes a lot of priests to minister to 1.3 billion people and yes, we need more.

In theory, at least, an easing of the celibacy requirements might help alleviate that problem.

It is reasonable that one might come to this conclusion but in reality celibacy is really not the issue among seminarians considering the priesthood and believe it or not, most priests will tell you that they consider celibacy to be a great gift. Most cannot imagine having a family and still being able to carry out their duties. Being a Catholic priest is a full time job and one that pays at about the poverty level, maybe $1500/month, certainly not sufficient to raise a family. Most orders of priest take vows of poverty which does not work well with a family.

On the other hand, it might also fundamentally alter the nature of the Catholic priesthood.

It would definitely altar the way in which priests perfrom their duties, however it would not alter the fundamental nature of the priesthood. It would just make it more difficult to carry out. Paul, while desiring that his disciples remain unmarried, as was he, didn't require celibacy for those who burned with desire, but it was his preference simply due to the nature of the mission to which he was called.

As any leader (military or civilian) can attest, those who are "married to their job" (in this case, priests and nuns who are "married to the Church") tend to be more focused, more mission-oriented, and less distracted than their counterparts with flesh-and-blood wives and children.

Great observation.

Edited March 22, 2013 by StephenVH

[SteveVH]

I've heard more than a few Catholics express StephenVH's opinion.

Current: "God wants celebrate priesthood? Ok."

Possible future: "God is ok with a married priesthood now? Ok."

Sounds like a perfectly tenable position to hold. Especially from the point of view of a Mormon, with our history of God instituting, then ending, the practice of polygamy.

There doesn't seem to be an issue here. Not with Catholic adherents, not with people who study Catholicism.

Keep in mind that this is not a doctrinal issue, therefore we are not looking for God to tell us that it is now okay or not for priests to be married. Its already okay for priests to be married (as evidenced by the fact that we have married priests); there is nothing wrong with it, from a doctrinal standpoint, rather it is simply a discipline that the Church, for about the last 1700 years, has found to work better in spreading the Gospel and ministering to the flock.

We do not believe that God will ever change doctrine. It would mean that he is changing truth, which is an impossibility. 2 + 2 will always equal 4. Catholic doctrine has remained the same for 2000 years. Practices and disciplines within the Church, however, can and have changed during that time.

Edited March 22, 2013 by StephenVH

[pam]

It reminds me of the practice or policy of popes stepping down. I have always thought that a pope couldn't step down but I have learned differently in the last month. It's not that they can't, it's just that one hasn't in 600 years.

I kind of look at this as along those lines. It's not that they can't be married...it's just that tradition for so many years has said otherwise. Or at least the perception that Priests in the Catholic church can't be married.

[Guest]

I think it would be easier for a Mormon to understand the desire for a priest to take a vow of celibacy when brought into juxtaposition with the 1.5-2 year mission. During this time of a full-time mission, the church takes unmarried men/women to serve full-time missions and we encourage young men/women to set aside their girl/boyfriends so as not to provide a distraction on the mission field. They leave their mission, have families, and when their families fly off the nest, they may serve a full-time mission again. The difference here is that Catholic Priests take this on as a lifetime mission.

[Guest]

It reminds me of the practice or policy of popes stepping down. I have always thought that a pope couldn't step down but I have learned differently in the last month. It's not that they can't, it's just that one hasn't in 600 years.

I kind of look at this as along those lines. It's not that they can't be married...it's just that tradition for so many years has said otherwise. Or at least the perception that Priests in the Catholic church can't be married.

There's a slight difference between the two. There's nothing in the policy that bars a pope from stepping down whereas the Catholic Church requires a vow of celibacy before ordination to the priesthood.

[Bini]

My thoughts aren't particularly strong one way or the other. Speculating with my LDS hat on, I think welcoming marriage for Catholic priests would be a wonderful blessing for these devoted men of God, especially since Heavenly Father wants all his children to receive and enjoy the blessings of family.

[Guest]

My thoughts aren't particularly strong one way or the other. Speculating with my LDS hat on, I think welcoming marriage for Catholic priests would be a wonderful blessing for these devoted men of God, especially since Heavenly Father wants all his children to receive and enjoy the blessings of family.

I'm with you on this one. Although, I think it would have the opposite effect of what one would normally think - that opening the priesthood to married men would make the priesthood less appealing than more appealing. We already have a thread here about overworked Mormons titled "Leadership Meetings". Could you imagine the work of a Catholic priest combined with the demands of the family? I, for one, cannot imagine anybody who would want that job. So, the only way I can think of that would work is if you drastically reduce the responsibilities of a priest, or provide a "called to/released from" the calling, or if you release them from their vow of poverty to make things easier on the family.

Okay, priests like PrisonChaplain is married and still does the responsibilities of the priesthood. But, I've always seen protestant ministers as having completely different responsiblities than a Catholic priest. But, I don't really know much about protestant ministers so I don't know how it would compare.

[MarginOfError]

I'm with you on this one. Although, I think it would have the opposite effect of what one would normally think - that opening the priesthood to married men would make the priesthood less appealing than more appealing. We already have a thread here about overworked Mormons titled "Leadership Meetings". Could you imagine the work of a Catholic priest combined with the demands of the family? I, for one, cannot imagine anybody who would want that job. So, the only way I can think of that would work is if you drastically reduce the responsibilities of a priest, or provide a "called to/released from" the calling, or if you release them from their vow of poverty to make things easier on the family.

Okay, priests like PrisonChaplain is married and still does the responsibilities of the priesthood. But, I've always seen protestant ministers as having completely different responsiblities than a Catholic priest. But, I don't really know much about protestant ministers so I don't know how it would compare.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Catholic priests paid for their service? Isn't it their career?

I know it isn't much, but if that is their source of employment as well as their service to God, I'm not sure that they'd be overworked in the same way as the lay ministry of Mormonism.

But, yes, Catholics would need to pony up a bit to help them support a family.

[SteveVH]

There's a slight difference between the two. There's nothing in the policy that bars a pope from stepping down whereas the Catholic Church requires a vow of celibacy before ordination to the priesthood.

In the Latin Rite, only, not in the Eastern Rite. Granted, that includes most Catholic priests but it says a lot about the nature of the discipline.

It actually developed over time until it became an official practice early in the 4th century. The Church was going into lands all over the world and the chance that one would be martyred was great. It began with those certain orders of priests who were going into harms way, so to speak. It also became evident that those who were unmarried were much more free to carry out the duties of their ministry.

From my own personal experience with the priests who have pastored our parish, I cannot imagine any of them being married and doing their job as well. They are on 24 hour call. I can call my priest in a time of need and don't have to be concerned if this is going to interupt his family. His entire life is devoted to serving Christ by serving those in the Church and out of the Church in a singular manner.

The scriptural basis for the practice comes directly from Paul:

"I would that all men were even as myself; but every one hath his proper gift from God .... But I say to the unmarried and to the widows, it is good for them if they so continue, even as I. But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided. And the unmarried woman and the virgin thinketh on the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit. But she that is married thinketh on the things of this world how she may please her husband. And this I speak for your profit, not to cast a snare upon you, but for that which is decent and which may give you power to attend upon the Lord without impediment." (1 Corinthians 7:7-8 and 32-35)

Edited March 22, 2013 by StephenVH

[Roseslipper]

I learned something new today. I had no idea that Priest in the Catholic Church can get married. :) This is great news to me and if they make it universal I think it would be great. I will wait to see it instead of just hearing what if??