Some other BSA questions...

[annewandering]

I agree. There are, however, those eager to change that fact in favor of their own predilections.

I agree, as does being civil to one's fellow Latter-day Saints (such as Carlimac) who are trying to understand both the policy change and its potential implications.

Telling them they're "overreacting" or "making a mountain out of a molehill" is to be dismissive of their concerns and questions- which is itself uncivil.

Perhaps you are right and if so I apologize to Carlimac.

Being cautious is not a bad thing. The boy scouts look like they have been very cautious even under a lot of pressure.

[skippy740]

I currently serve as a Cubmaster in scouting. I was a Boy Scout up to the 1st Class rank.

I have YET to see a book written by BSA that discusses sexual purity... other than through the religious knots & other religious awards. This allows religious convictions to be expressed and taught. Aside from that, there is nothing else that I can think of within the entire world of scouting.

The BSA doesn't teach anything specific on purity, except that they have core tenants to believe in God and to be a good person who is involved in their community.

That is not to say that there aren't codes of conduct for scouting activities... which are different than being a 'scouting lifestyle'.

This is an observational post, not meant to be taken for or against any specific view.

Edited May 25, 2013 by skippy740

[carlimac]

I currently serve as a Cubmaster in scouting. I was a Boy Scout up to the 1st Class rank.

I have YET to see a book written by BSA that discusses sexual purity... other than through the religious knots & other religious awards. This allows religious convictions to be expressed and taught. Aside from that, there is nothing else that I can think of within the entire world of scouting.

The BSA doesn't teach anything specific on purity, except that they have core tenants to believe in God and to be a good person who is involved in their community.

That is not to say that there aren't codes of conduct for scouting activities... which are different than being a 'scouting lifestyle'.

This is an observational post, not meant to be taken for or against any specific view.

Sounds to me then like there isn't really a consensus on what the BSA means by morally clean. Some insist that it includes chastity. Others say it doesn't.

I'm just glad my own boys are beyond all this. I'm glad that they got their eagles before this bruhaha came up. I'm glad they did the work and learned the lessons to be learned in scouting. But I must admit I'm sad that this eagle achievment will never from this time forward mean what it used to in the public eye. (And to think they could have had all the fun of messing around with their girlfriends and still gotten their award- according to the BSA. Dang, they missed out.)

Edited May 25, 2013 by carlimac

[selek]

Perhaps you are right and if so I apologize to Carlimac.

Thank you.

Being cautious is not a bad thing. The boy scouts look like they have been very cautious even under a lot of pressure.

I agree.

I believe the BSA has been very cautious and has struck a good balance between principle and inclusiveness.

My concern is not with the BSA leadership, but those who will see this as a concession and as justification and opportunity to force further changes.

All things considered, I just don't believe this fight is over; for far too many in the LGBT movement neutrality (as exemplified by the BSA stance) is not sufficient- only endorsement and blatant boosterism will suffice.

[skippy740]

But I must admit I'm sad that this eagle achievment will never from this time forward mean what it used to in the public eye. (And to think they could have had all the fun of messing around with their girlfriends and still gotten their award- according to the BSA. Dang, they missed out.)

I've never viewed the Eagle Scout award as a pinnacle for youth morality.

To me, it's always been a top award of youth achievement, good citizenship and leadership. A great resume enhancer and way to build skills for the future... but not based on some kind of superior morality.

In that sense, being a Priest in the Aaronic Priesthood and magnifying that priesthood is of more worth than being an Eagle Scout. And so is being worthy to serve a mission.

I have a sense that because of how inter-twined the BSA program is with our youth, that it feels like being an eagle scout is more of a 'rite of passage' for our youth.... on the way to becoming an adult. It's also been seen as the "mark of good parenting" to say that "All my kids are Eagle Scouts and returned missionaries".

Having all your kids becoming Eagle Scouts and RMs doesn't make you a better parent than those who don't. You just feel that you have more bragging rights than other parents do.

Edited May 25, 2013 by skippy740

[skippy740]

To quote the most mediocre captain of the Enterprise, "When has justice ever been as simple as a rulebook?"

Technically, that was spoken by Cmdr Riker of the Enterprise-D... not the Captain.

However, since we are talking about the BSA in this thread... Captain Jonathan Archer was an Eagle Scout, as was his security chief Malcolm Reed.

"Jim Kirk was many things... but he was never a Boy Scout." - Carol Marcus, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.

Boy Scout - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki

[skippy740]

Here's something else most people may not have known - and I didn't know until I became an Adult Leader in Scouting:

Did you know that GIRLS can join the BSA?

And go camping?

They can join "Venturing" at the age of 16 (I believe). They just can't obtain the Eagle Scout award.

This doesn't happen with LDS troops... but it does show how the BSA is ran differently outside of the LDS infrastructure.

[selek]

Technically, that was spoken by Cmdr Riker of the Enterprise-D... not the Captain.

Well, if we're going to get technical about it: Riker was Captain of the Enterprise in "Best of Both Worlds". (He was promoted after the second most mediocre captain of the Enterprise was assimilated by the Borg) .

However, got get +2 PnP for Knowledge over Archer and Reed as I didn't know that about them.

[Backroads]

Here's something else most people may not have known - and I didn't know until I became an Adult Leader in Scouting:

Did you know that GIRLS can join the BSA?

And go camping?

They can join "Venturing" at the age of 16 (I believe). They just can't obtain the Eagle Scout award.

This doesn't happen with LDS troops... but it does show how the BSA is ran differently outside of the LDS infrastructure.

They can join Venturing at age 14. The reason they can't obtain the Eagle Scout award is because the Eagle Scout is associated with BOY SCOUTS which, despite being under the BSA Program umbrella, is a separate thing. There is no Eagle Scout award to earn in Venturing. It DOES NOT EXIST there. There are plenty of awards there, however, they can earn.

[skippy740]

Thank you.

The point that I was trying to piece together... was that girls and boys can be camping together in the "Venturing" crew beginning at age 14 outside of LDS/BSA troops.

I would think there would be more potential problems with sexual morality there than with boys who have same-sex attraction.

I think a lot of this paranoia is 'much ado about nothing'... except that now another organization has had to amend its stance to please the probably less than .1% of boys who may have wanted to be a scout and couldn't.

[NightSG]

I do not believe that the BSA practices immoral and repugnant behavior.

Try that stuff they serve for lunch about the third day of a week long summer camp, then.

As for the rest of it, that's up to the chartering organizations and adult leaders.

[jerome1232]

Try that stuff they serve for lunch about the third day of a week long summer camp, then.

.

Our BSA camp had amazing food and a chef with a temper!