Help

[PhxLucy7]

My husband is researching the church by looking through other sources that aren't of our church and ex-Mormon YouTube videos. How can I stay positive through this? We haven't talked about it but I can hear the videos playing in the other room. Occasionally he will ask me questions about things that he has heard from sources he's looked at in the past. An today he brought up a website he found that "scientifically proved" that the BOM was made through uses of other books. Thanks for any advice!

[pam]

I would recommend referring him to FAIR and you could also use that website to help answer some of the questions he's asking.

Edited July 8, 2013 by pam

[skippy740]

Shaken Faith Syndrome: Strengthening One's Testimony in the Face of Criticism and Doubt: Michael R. Ash: 9781893036147: Amazon.com: Books

[estradling75]

An today he brought up a website he found that "scientifically proved" that the BOM was made through uses of other books. Thanks for any advice!

It was... Mormon even tells you that he is pulling together a bunch of different records to make the Book of Mormon... This would include placing in the small plates of Nephi in there in their entirety.

So if the scientific proof is signs of different authors and styles within the Book of Mormon well that fits perfectly with what it says it is..

If they are claiming scientific proof of multiple modern authors ( say 1800 and later) then... well I would like to see that proof... Because proving modern authors is much much harder. And that is the bar they need to cross in this case

[PhxLucy7]

It's sad because he won't even read the scriptures and if I tell him to look on Mormon.org he won't. He wants to look through other perspectives I guess. I will pray and I think that talking with my bishop will help me feel better.

[Lakumi]

here's one delving into such a topic

what other perspectives? If you search for fault in something you're going to find it (no matter if it's actually there or not) you can't go into anything, be it a sport, or religion-anything, with such negativity.

[bytor2112]

Echoes and Evidences of the Book of Mormon is a very good book.....of course the Spirit is really what he needs.....

[livy111us]

Let him know that FAIR has their own videos to counter most anti-Mormon attacks. Here is their Youtube page fairldsorg - YouTube

and all their videos: fairldsorg - YouTube

They have over 800 videos that should be able to help him out.

[PhxLucy7]

Thanks for all the helpful advice. My husband isn't LDS and he has a problem with me being so sure about what I believe in while not having all the answers. Last night he asked me about eternal marriage. He didn't realize that other religions don't believe in marriage after death. I found a website that explains from a "christian" point of view that marriage ends at death and that there is no need for marriage when we die bc we will all be together as angels of God. He agreed with that and said that he believes he will be with his family and loved ones when he dies. And he brought up the term "soul mates", as in we don't need marriage because we will always be "soul mates". I know that to him it might sound ridiculous for me to believe in all this and not be able to back it up but I feel the spirit and know of a surety of it. He can't understand having the Spirit and he said he doesn't feel the way I do. He appreciates much of the church teachings but when it comes to the Book of Mormon, modern day prophets, Eternal marriage... he gets mad. He wanted me to prove that it says these things in the bible. He also questioned me about Heavenly Mother and becoming "Gods" after death. but I just referred to D&C 132: 19-20. I told him that we believe we are here to become more like our Heavenly Father and that we can inherit all that he has. He does not believe that we can become like Heavenly Father. He said that "it's impossible, God is God, we won't become Gods because there already is a God." *sigh* I'm not quick enough to keep up with all this and it gets me down but I still have faith

[livy111us]

Regarding becoming as our Father in Heaven is, this was a belief that was taught anciently and taught in both the Bible and in early Christian writings (and modern one for that matter). You can read a little of this teaching here:

Mormonism and the nature of God/Deification of man - FAIRMormon

A more in depth look at it can be found here: http://www.fairlds.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/jones-the-christian-doctrine-of-deification.pdf

A Mother in Heaven has been addressed in several places as well.

http://www.fairlds.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/jones-the-christian-doctrine-of-deification.pdf

Authored by Michael Coogan, director of publications for the Harvard Semitic Museum, the book God and Sex: What the Bible Really Says presents a fascinating reading of the famous Genesis 1:27:

“So God [elohim] created humans in his image, in the image of elohim he created them, male and female he created them”

Concerning this passage, Coogan presents the reading, “in the image of gods, God created them, male and female.” Coogan writes:

“The general principle here is that humans are modeled on God, almost genetically—just as later in Genesis, ‘Adam fathered [a son] in his likeness, according to his image.’ But that abstract understanding immediately becomes concrete: humans are modeled on elohim, specifically in their sexual differences…

“The traditional translation [of Genesis 1:27] is ‘in the image of God he created them.” This does not entirely make sense, since the last line speaks of ‘male and female,’ and God in the Bible is not androgynous but male. An alternative is to understand elohim in the second line in its plural sense: humans are male and female in the image of the gods—because the gods are male and female, humans are as well. Which male and female deities are the model? Although the entire pantheon is a possibility, the divine couple, Yahweh and his goddess consort, are more likely” (God and Sex: What the Bible Really Says. 175-176)

The earliest source comes from the Shabako stone of the British museum. The stone

marks the founding of the first dynasty of Egypt, is considered to be one of the oldest known

texts in existence, and is not seriously questioned. Remembering that the earliest theology of the

Egyptians was an imitation of the doctrine of the patriarchal fathers from Adam down to

Abraham (Abraham 1:26), makes the discovery that the ancient Egyptians believed in a

“heavenly mother, who bore Atum” (see shabako stone, lines 48-52a in k. Sethe, das ‘denkmal

memphitischer theologie’, der schabakostien des british museums [band x:1 of unters. Zur gesch.

U. Alterumskunde aegyptens, leipzig: 1928], pg. 1-5, 46-50. Cited in Nibley on the Timely and

the Timeless, [1988], pg. 24-25)

In the Jewish Zohar: “It is evident that all the righteous are known by all in those higher

regions before their souls descended into this world...we also learn from this that the souls of the

righteous emanate from an upper region as we have already stated. But there is also an esoteric

lesson connected with it, namely, that the soul has a father and a mother, as the body has a father

and a mother in this world. (The Zohar, 3:12a. Cited in Bennett, The Writings of the Rabbis and

Other Important Discoveries, [1990] pg. 18)

In what appears to be a ritual dialogue that followed an initiation ceremony, Melito, who

served as Bishop of Sardis (170 A.D.), speaks to a group of orthodox Christian “brides and

bridegrooms” of “the Father” and “your Mother.” Said Melito, “We hymn, we exalt (them)

exceedingly, we holy ones.” (Melito of Sardis on Pascha and Fragments, pg. 85)

“The texts of Judges emphasize that Israel did not abandon Yahweh to go over and worship Asherah, but that they worshiped Yahweh and Asherah simultaneously, even as consorts. They were henotheistic. The texts also indicate that Asherah worship was by far the popular choice, and that reformers like Gideon were in the minority.

In spite of several noteworthy attempts to eliminate Asherah worship from the land, such reform was fervently resisted by popular piety. … Worship of Asherah was not viewed, in the eyes of popular piety, as in conflict with Yahwism. It was seen, rather, as harmonious with the worship of Yahweh.”(Richard J. Pettey, Asherah: Goddess of Israel?, American University Studies, Series VII, vol. 74, 1990, pp 206)

“There can be no doubt that the goddess to whom the Hebrews clung with such tenacity down to the days of Josiah, and to whom they returned with such remorse following the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple, was, whatever the prophets had to say about her, no foreign seductress, but a Hebrew goddess, the best divine mother the people had had to that time.”

(Raphael Patai, The Hebrew Goddess, 1990, pp. 31-32)

“The Jerusalem temple was expunged of cultic objects considered unacceptable according to 2 Kings 23. The list includes the asherah, but there is no indication that the asherah was related to the cult of Baal. Rather, as Olyan has argued, the asherah was associated historically with Yahweh and not with Baal.” (Mark S. Smith, The Early History of God, 2002, p.116)

One scholar renders Genesis 49:24 – 26 accordingly:

“His bow stayed taut,

His hands were agile,

By the bull of Jacob,

By the strength of the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel,

By El, your Father, who helps you,

By Shadday, who blesses you

With the blessings of Heavens, from above,

The blessings of the Deep, crouching below,

The blessings of Breasts-and-Womb,

The blessings of your Father, Hero and Almighty,

The blessings of the Eternal Mountains,

The delight of the Everlasting Hills,

May they be on the head of Joseph,

On the crown of the chosen of his brothers.”

He continues “The phrase saddayim waraham in verse 25 echoes Ugaritic titles of the goddesses Asherah and Anat.”

He concludes by saying “The strongest evidence, however, supports Asherah as the goddess evoked by the female epithets in Genesis 45:25.… El and Asherah were Israelite deities distinguished from Yahweh, who is invoked separately in verse 18. “

Mark S. Smith, The Early History of God, 2002, p.49-50

As David Noel Freedman pointed out, when Elijah goes after the priests of Ba’al, he leaves the worshipers of Asherah alone.

Margaret Barker maintains that the reforms of King Josiah (and the dominant priestly class of Deuteronomists) included removal of the Lady of the Temple (Wisdom, the “Living One”) from the holy of holies of the temple of Solomon.[1] Even so, the Great Isaiah Scroll from Qumran still includes the reading at Isaiah 7:11, “Ask a sign of the Mother of the LORD your God.”

A few *possible* allusions to her in the Bible

Gen. 2:22-24--You need to read through this slowly to understand it: the rib that was taken out of

man, who would man be? It would be Adam. “and the Lord made a woman”, who is the woman?

It would be Eve. “and brought her to man” (Adam). Adam said it is his flesh because she (Eve)

was taken out of man (Adam), “therefore, shall a man (Adam) leave his father and his mother

and cleave unto his wife.” How could Adam leave his father and mother if there is no heavenly

mother?

[livy111us]

I forgot to add some notes on Eternal Marriage. Also, most of the quotes above are from non-LDS scholars.

From the ancient document from the Nag Hammadi, Gospel of Philip 79 adds, “But the woman is united to her husband in the bridal chamber. But those who have united in the bridal chamber can no longer be separated… if anyone becomes a son of the bridal chamber, he will receive the light. If anyone does not receive it while he is in this world, he will not receive it in the other place”(Wilhelm Schneemelcher (Robert McLachlan Wilson, transl.), New Testament Apocrypha (Louisville, KY: Westminster/John Knox, 1991), 1:206)

Falasha 5 Baruch: [baruch is Jeremiah’s scribe; he is being shown different parts of the heavenly Jerusalem] A great angel named Sutu’el appeared. He exalted Baruch heavenward and let him see all the hidden and manifest things. He brought him into the Heavenly Jerusalem, and let him see established and high thrones, decorated places, shining crowns of various appearances, and white robes of various shapes . . . Then he showed me the aspect of the Heavenly Jerusalem . . . Then he brought me into the middle (where the) column (was) and there I saw high and shiny seats, and robes whiter than milk, the sun, the moon, and the stars. The place was full of fruit. I asked the angel who conducted me and said to him: “Who enters through this gate?” He who guided me answered and said to me: “Blessed are those who enter through this gate. (Here) the husband remains with his wife and the wife remains with her husband.”

1 Peter 3:7--“Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto

the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your

prayers be not hindered.”

This speaks about being “heirs together” with our husbands and wives. That would have to mean

that they will not be separated at death.

Isaiah:-65-19-25---It is speaking of conditions on the earth after during paradisiacal glory. “And they shall build house and inhabit them {us} They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for trouble for they {us} are the seed of the blessed of the lord, and "their offspring with them".

1 Cor. 11:11-- “Neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the

Lord.”

Mat. 19:4-6-- What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder.

[livy111us]

Here is another item worth mentioning. We will NEVER rise above our Heavenly Father. No matter how far we progress, he will ALWAYS be above us and be our Father. Boyd K. Packer and Brigham Young both taught this principle.

“The Father is the one true God. This thing is certain: no one will ever ascend above Him; no one will ever replace Him. Nor will anything ever change the relationship that we, His literal offspring, have with

Him. He is Elohim, the Father. He is God. Of Him there is only one. We revere our Father and our God; we worship Him.” (Boyd K. Packer, Ensign Nov. 1984 pg. 69)

“This [Godhood of man] will not detract anything from the glory and might of our Heavenly Father, for He will still remain our Father, and we shall still be subject to Him, and as we progress in glory and power, the more it enhances the glory and power of our Heavenly Father. This principle holds good in either state, whether mortal or immortal.” -Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 10:5, September 28

[PhxLucy7]

I have looked through these things and it all pieces together and makes so much sense. I want to continue to study and learn more and understand the gospel more fully so that I can more appropriately back up what I believe in. I appreciate this so much. And hopefully I can bring this up to my husband and pray that he can soften his heart. Thank you so much!