Question about D.C. 84

[howdeedoo]

Section 84

1 A arevelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they bunited their hearts and clifted their voices on high.

2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the arestoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his bprophets, and for the cgathering of his dsaints to stand upon eMount Zion, which shall be the city of fNew Jerusalem.

3 Which city shall be abuilt, beginning at the btemple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and cdedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.

4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city aNew Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which btemple shall be creared in this dgeneration.

Excuse, I have a general maybe stupid question. I saw this as revelation, was this ever built? Has the revelation come to pass? Was that temple built?

[skippy740]

Some would say that the Kansas City, Missouri temple would fulfill this section of the D&C:

Kansas City Missouri LDS (Mormon) Temple

[skalenfehl]

Neither the city New Jerusalem nor the temple of New Jerusalem has been built. A series of events will take place first:

1. Times of the Gentiles fulfilled

2. Desolating scourge

3. Gathering of elect

etc

Edited July 20, 2013 by skalenfehl

[howdeedoo]

Some would say that the Kansas City, Missouri temple would fulfill this section of the D&C:

Kansas City Missouri LDS (Mormon) Temple

4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city aNew Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which btemple shall be creared in this generation.

Oh I see thank you. I thought "this generation" meant it had to be built in the 1930's at the least where "that generation" would have been 100. Thank you for shedding some light on the subject though.

[james12]

I think the word generation can be confusing. I take it to mean a group of people belonging to a specific category at a given time. Thus I could say, "The generation of silent film stars" or, "The generation of castles and knights". Jesus uses the term in a similar fashion. He speaks of the abomination of desolation, the moon turning to blood and the sun being darkened then he says, "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled?" I do not believe he means the current individuals then on the earth for we are still waiting for some these things to happen.

The next question becomes what is the generation referred to in verse four and five? Or in other words, what sets us apart as a unique group of individuals such that the temple will be built only at the end of our generation? I believe section 84 is largely an answer to that question. For after verse five we are given to understand priesthood and how to see the face of God. We are told about the acceptable offering which will be made and about the oath and covenant. We learn that the world is in darkness because they don't come unto him and that even the church is under condemnation for not remembering the BofM and to follow it. Missionary work, plagues, etc. until the work is completed. Until, "all shall know [him], who remain, even from the least unto the greatest" (v 98). Then will the current generation pass away and all things will become new. Zion will be clothed in beauty and the existing state will end.

I wish it would come in my day and that this long generation of wickedness and condemnation would be over. We all play a part in bringing it to pass. I'll do my best with my small portion.

[skalenfehl]

This generation = this dispensation.

[howdeedoo]

Thank you for your answer. How though do you choose which generation he is talking about. From reading it I understand it as the generation ending in 1930's... In that time, there was no temple built there were there?

[howdeedoo]

This generation = this dispensation.

Hmm why does this generation mean anything else but this generation...?

[howdeedoo]

Some would say that the Kansas City, Missouri temple would fulfill this section of the D&C:

Kansas City Missouri LDS (Mormon) Temple

Hmm that's not what the others are saying... I'm hearing

1. Times of the Gentiles fulfilled

2. Desolating scourge

3. Gathering of elect

have they occured already or have they not ?

Desolating scourge... that sounds bad, what, if you could summarize in your own words, would happen during such a scourge?

[skalenfehl]

The times of the gentiles is not yet fulfilled. Isaiah prophecies of this as does Nephi and also Jesus Christ teaches the Nephites more during his visit at Bountiful. Moroni has seen our day where every last church has become polluted. The Doctrine and Covenants also contains more revelations about the coming scourge, which will leave the land (USA) desolate.

D&C 112

23 Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face.

24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.

25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;

D&C 45

26 And in that day shall be heard of wars and rumors of wars, and the whole earth shall be in commotion, and men’s hearts shall failthem, and they shall say that Christ delayeth his coming until the end of the earth.

27 And the love of men shall wax cold, and iniquity shall abound.

31 And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.

The prophet John Taylor saw in a vision concerning the coming scourge:

The first thing that I recognized was that I was in the tabernacle of Ogden, Utah…I arose to speak and said that I did*n’t know that I had anything especially to say, except to bear my testimony of the Latter-day work, when all at once it seemed as if I was lifted out of myself and I said, “Yes, I have something to say and that is this: Some of my brethren have been asking, “What is becoming of us? What is the wind blowing?” I will answer you right here what is coming very shortly.”

I was then in a dream, immediately in the city of Salt Lake, and wandering around in the streets and in all parts of the city, and on the doors of the houses I found badges of mourning and I could not find a house but was in mourning…

It seemed strange to me that I saw no person in the streets in all my wandering around the country. I seemed to be in their houses with the sick, but saw no funeral procession, nor anything of the kind, but the city looking still and as though the people were praying. And it seemed that they had controlled the disease, but what the disease was I did not learn; it was not made known to me. I then looked over the country, north, east, south, and west, and the same mourning was in every land and in every place…

The next thing I knew I was just this side of Omaha. It seemed though I was above the earth, and looking down upon it. As I passed along upon my way east I saw the road full of people, mostly women, with just what they could carry in bundles on their backs, traveling to the mountains on foot. I wondered how they would get through with such a small pack on their backs…

I continued east by the way of Omaha and Council Bluffs, which were full of disease. There were women everywhere. The state of Illinois and Missouri were in a tumult, men killing one another, women joining the fighting, family against family in the most horrid manner…I was in Washington and I found desolation there. The White House was empty and the Halls of Congress the same, and everything in ruins. The people seemed to have left the city and left it to take care of itself.

I was in Baltimore. In the square where the Monument of 1812 stands in front of the Charles Hotel. I saw dead piled up so as to fill the street square. I saw mothers cutting the throats of their own children for their blood. I saw them suck it from their throats to quench their own thirst and then lie down and die. The water of Chesapeake Bay was stagnant, and the stench arising from it on account of their throwing their bodies into it so terrible, that the very smell carried death with it. I saw no man except they were dead or dying in the streets and very few women. Those I saw were crazy and in an ugly condition. Everywhere I went I beheld the same sights all over the city; it was terrible beyond description to look upon.

I thought this must be the end; but no, I was seemingly in an instant in the city of Philadelphia. There everything was still. No living soul was there to greet me. It seemed the whole city was without any inhabitants. In the south of Chestnut Street and in fact everywhere I went, the putrefaction of the dead caused such a stench that it was impossible for any living thing to breathe, nor did I see any living thing in the city.

Next I found myself in Broadway, in the city of New York, and there it seemed the people had done the best they could to overcome the disease, but in wandering down Broadway I saw the bodies of beautiful women lying, some dead and others in a dying condition, on the sidewalks. I saw men come out of cellars and ravish the persons of some that were yet alive and then kill them and rob their bodies of all the valuables they had upon them. Then before they could get back to the cellar they would roll over a time or two and die in agony. In some of the back streets I saw them kill some of their own offspring and eat their raw flesh, and in a few minutes die themselves. Everywhere I went I saw the same scene of horror and destruction and death and rapine.

No carriages, buggies, or cars were running; but death and destruction were everywhere. Then I saw fire start and just at that moment a mighty East wind sprang up and carried the flames over the city and it burned until there was not a single building left standing there, even down to the waters edge. Wharves and shipping all seemed to burn and follow in common destruction where the “great city” was a short time ago. The stench from the bodies that were burning was so great that it was carried a long distance cross the Hudson Bay and carried death and destruction wherever it penetrated. I cannot paint in words the horror that seemed to compass me about; it was beyond description of man.

I supposed this was the end; but it was not. I was given to understand the same horror was being en*acted all over the country, east, west, north, and south. Few were left alive, still there were some. Immediately after I seemed to be standing on the left bank of the Missouri River, opposite e the City of Independence, but there was no city. I saw the whole state of Missouri and Illinois and all of Iowa, a complete desert with no living being there…

[Pioneer47]

I guess I'm going to have to disagree. I don't think that the Kansas City Missouri LDS (Mormon) Temple fulfilled this prophecy.

Let's look closer at verse four:

4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.

It says that the city of New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints.

It then goes on to say where the beginning of the gathering of the saints would take place. Where is that place? It is "this place." It is clearly a localized reference to whatever place Joseph was at when this revelation was given. Where was this revelation given? It was given in Kirtland, Ohio.

It seems to me that "this place, even the place of the temple" is referring to the temple lot in Kirtland Ohio, not the temple lot in Jackson County.

This verse then goes on to prophecy that, the temple which will be built upon the "this place", "shall be reared in this generation." The Kirtland temple was reared in the generation of those people.

I think it is so sad that people look at this prophecy as failed because the New Jerusalem temple wasn't finished in the generation of those people.

The reason I like my understanding of this is because it doesn't require any shoehorning of modern temples(no offense) nor redefining of the word "generation"(again no offense). It just requires us to use a little grammar and geography.

I'm afraid that last paragraph may have sounded like I was talking down to others. That wasn't my intention.

[pam]

I'm with you about the Kansas City temple. I don't believe it fulfilled prophecy either. I believe the temple prophecied of has yet to be built.

[skalenfehl]

Hmm why does this generation mean anything else but this generation...?

Would it help if I quoted a prophet or apostle to add authority to the statement or can the Holy Spirit witness to you whether it is true?

[james12]

Let's look closer at verse four:

4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.

It says that the city of New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints.

It then goes on to say where the beginning of the gathering of the saints would take place. Where is that place? It is "this place." It is clearly a localized reference to whatever place Joseph was at when this revelation was given. Where was this revelation given? It was given in Kirtland, Ohio.

It seems to me that "this place, even the place of the temple" is referring to the temple lot in Kirtland Ohio, not the temple lot in Jackson County.

This verse then goes on to prophecy that, the temple which will be built upon the "this place", "shall be reared in this generation." The Kirtland temple was reared in the generation of those people.

I think it is so sad that people look at this prophecy as failed because the New Jerusalem temple wasn't finished in the generation of those people.

The reason I like my understanding of this is because it doesn't require any shoehorning of modern temples(no offense) nor redefining of the word "generation"(again no offense). It just requires us to use a little grammar and geography.

Note the order of the revelations:

1831, July 20: Independence Missouri is the place for the temple and city of Zion (see D&C 57)

1832, September 22, 23: Section 84 received

1833, May 6: Commanded to build the Kirtland temple (see D&C 94)

The revelation to build the Kirtland temple was received after section 84 so it is not likely hat verses four and five refer to the Kirtland temple. Additional details in verses 2, 3, and 32 give context and they do not point to Kirtland. Note verse 32 says, "which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed". The consecrated spot was Independence Missouri (see D&C 58:57).

Edited July 21, 2013 by james12

[bytebear]

Hmm why does this generation mean anything else but this generation...?

Matt 24:34 clearly uses generation differently than you assume.