32 Killed At Va Tech

[StrawberryFields]

Do they have violent movies and video games (more than we do) in South Korea?

I don't know `but this guy has been here since 1992

Police identified the shooter as Cho Seung-Hui (pronounced Choh Suhng-whee), of Centreville, Va., who was a senior in the English Department at Virginia Tech. Cho, a resident alien who immigrated to the United States from South Korea in 1992, lived on campus in Harper Residence Hall.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18148802/?GT1=9246

[shanstress70]

Shanstress,

My oh my, somehow I can't get you to agree with anything I say today!

I am making a general statement, but there are exceptions. Obviously you are aware of some. But I hold to the belief that there isn't a lot of sense of community anymore, and that most people are in it for themselves. Thankfully, I have a ward family that helps me "come out of my shell" and reach out, and I have had wonderful experiences because of that. When I lived in Japan with my wife and kids, it was the only place I didn't feel that I was an outsider.

Yes, people are friendly, for the most part, but I also believe, for the most part, that they really don't care. Maybe I'm too pessimistic? Perhaps...

Seems like it, huh? No offense though... I just feel strongly that it's all about choice and to borrow your LDS term (which I love, BTW), some people don't choose the right... to the extreme. I'm not sure we can blame it on anything except that one individual.

Yes, it's possible that his parents were not very good at parenting, but I know many people who screw up big-time after having what would seem like a picture-perfect upbringing. It could be that he was insane, but he will still be held accountable. Maybe he just let the bad side of his brain win and made a VERY poor choice. Anyway, the buck stopped with him. He pulled the trigger... not the people who wrote the video game he played last night, or his parents, or Quinton Tarentino, or Satan. Everyone has had bad things that happen to them - some more than others - but they don't choose to kill 32 people. CTR!!!

[sixpacktr]

Totally agree on the whole issue of agency. It is as Elder Maxwell said, agency truly is a frightening thing, because we really have no one to blame but ourselves (paraphrasing). If it were possible for us to use the excuse that Quentin Tarantino did it, it does take away our agency. Too many people in horrible circumstances have turned out for the good, and too many from idyllic circumstances have gone completely horribly wrong for us to use that excuse. The same in this case. We may never know what made that young man snap, from pressures at school to just wanting to be famous, no matter what or how, but he will be req'd some day to stand before his maker and answer for this.

However, I also believe (and as I used to tell my youth Sunday School classes, this is the gospel according to me, thru my study and thinking, but not revealed thru the prophets) that if the parents fell down they will have it req'd of them as well (well that is scriptural--it is in the D&C about parents bringing up their kids in light and truth), but also, I believe, those that go out of their way to pull them down (as per Christ's teachings in Matt 18, which we studied this week in SS, about harming little ones and pulling them astray). Ultimately, it is our choice, our agency as to what we do and how we react, but I truly believe that those that contributed to those actions will have to answer for it. Again, TGATM (The Gospel According to Me).

[JcDean78]

I was angry about Hollywood going after clean flicks. However if you programmed the DVD player to recognize certain sceens, then you could screen on the fly using closed captioning or perhaps an advanced memory block feature where you program a certain time in the movie where the sceen cuts out and skips.

So imagin if everytime the Lords name was used in vain, the DVD player would recognize the word and block it. just like these forums can be set up the same way.

The downside to that is you end up supporting those who you would normally not. The artist will not get the message and take the movies further and further until you would end up blocking the entire movie.

One really good thing that has helped cut back a lot of movies and such is them wanting teenagers to be able to go see them. So they do just enough to get into that PG13 rating. All of the Lord of the Rings movies are just a tweaked sceen short of R.

What I would like to see is just the DVD's themselves offer an Alt version for us to buy. They already do it with the extra trashy versions, so why not the "not so trashy versions" and then our market force can be known.

One of my favorite movies was Doc Hollywood with Michael J Fox. I think it is R rated but I need to double check. Anyway 99.9999999% of this movie is clean and family oriented. For some reason, the movie maker decided they needed a nude sceen which does not fit the movie at all... just to have a nude sceen. I think there might be one discrete drop of the F word that my wife picked up on. Other than that this movie would be PG. It frustrates me that I do not have the power to cut out that one darn sceen and the 1 F bomb in what would be a great movie.

Way sorry to get off topic here. I do hope there can be some good to come from this horrible murder rampage and other events that are unfolding.

[Outshined]

I was angry about Hollywood going after clean flicks. However if you programmed the DVD player to recognize certain sceens, then you could screen on the fly using closed captioning or perhaps an advanced memory block feature where you program a certain time in the movie where the sceen cuts out and skips.

So imagin if everytime the Lords name was used in vain, the DVD player would recognize the word and block it. just like these forums can be set up the same way.

They sell a DVD player that can be set to remove profanity and religious references. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4810675

Cheap and effective; I own one myself and it works great.

[JcDean78]

Awesome! I have yet to find one that really used that! Now if only it would become even more main stream to have those features on ALL DVD players.

How does it work? Do you type in a list or does it come with a set list? Some TV programs will filter some words like wuss but let people say the B words, the A word, and the Lords name in vain.

If i were to get it, I would want to set the filters myself. Can it remove a nude sceen? Like that one company did with Titanic?

[Outshined]

It works off the closed captioning; no list. It doesn't skip racy scenes, but it will remove all profanity and even references to religious terms if you want. You can set it to be as strict as you want, from filtering only the 'worst' words or all profanity to no filtering at all.

It works with any DVD with closed captions. We love it. B)

I notice your profile says you are from Tennessee/Virginia. Sounds like you're close to where I live!

[Blessed]

My brother was born in S Korea. There is a wave of underground violence that has been around for the last 25 years. Things like lighting cats and dogs on fire for entertainment and that sort of thing. Really sick.

[StrawberryFields]

My brother was born in S Korea. There is a wave of underground violence that has been around for the last 25 years. Things like lighting cats and dogs on fire for entertainment and that sort of thing. Really sick.

Yeah that is sick!

[JcDean78]

It works off the closed captioning; no list. It doesn't skip racy scenes, but it will remove all profanity and even references to religious terms if you want. You can set it to be as strict as you want, from filtering only the 'worst' words or all profanity to no filtering at all.

It works with any DVD with closed captions. We love it. B)

I notice your profile says you are from Tennessee/Virginia. Sounds like you're close to where I live!

We are in the same stake. :)

JC ward.

[CrimsonKairos]

I take a lengthier and more difficult path to cleaning up my favorite movies. But I have absolute control over what does or does not make it into my "squeaky clean" edit.

I use the following programs, in this order, to clean the "dirty" movies I love.

MacTheRipper => Cinematize => Final Cut Pro => Compressor => DVD Studio Pro => Toast Titanium

I've removed all offensive words and nude scenes from the likes of Braveheart, The Godfather series, Office Space, Blackhawk Down, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Chinatown, Donnie Brasco (which has TONS of swearing!), etc...

Of course, to do what I do you can't own a Win-doze box...gotta' be a Mac.

[Dr T]

CK,

I love that idea. Do you have to rip them into your computer and then burn them onto a DVD or do you play them on your comp. with a bazillion bytes of memory?

[CrimsonKairos]

Well, using MacTheRipper I rip the DVD to my Mac.

Then, I use Cinematize which converts the data to quicktime movies.

I then import to Final Cut Pro where I cut out audio and video that needs cutting (haha).

I use compressor to convert the edited quicktime videos to MPEG2 files.

I then use DVD Studio Pro to assemble those MPEG2's and build them into the appropriate folder structure that DVD players recognize.

Lastly, I use Toast Titanium to burn these formatted folders onto a blank DVD. :)

[Dr T]

Wow, sounds like a lot of work. Thank you.

[Outshined]

We are in the same stake. :)

JC ward.

Cool! You're only 20 miles or so from me... :)

[Dr T]

The VA murderer sent a package to the media with videos etc. He said,

“You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today,” Cho says on one of the videos. “But you decided to spill my blood. You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off.”

What do you all think of those words?

[CrimsonKairos]

Sounds like blaming his choices on others.

Don't know the specifics, but sounds like the coward's way out.

[rosie321]

I think there was much truth to what the killer said.

“You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today,” Cho says on one of the videos. “But you decided to spill my blood. You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off.”

I can't understand why this Virginia Tech situation ever was allowed to get to the point it did. Its a travesty.

Yes while the kid might be taking the cowards way out and making excuses there are a lot of people that do have blood on their hands. He was known to have mental issues so its understandable why he did the things he did.

What was everyone elses excuse for not doing more?

There's a kid that everyone knew was troubled.

He was pointed out to be a concern by at least one teacher (who deserves credit for having tried to stop something bad from happening before it got to the point it did).

He was on disciplinary action and had been found stalking other kids.

His pedophiliac writings make me wonder if he was not at one point and time the subject of abuse himself.

What was being done to monitor him, get him removed from the campus or make sure he got the help he needed (especially if he couldn't afford it)? Instead he's allowed free roaming of the campus and even brings a gun on campus? People knew he had issues.

After the first shootings the guy was able to leave, send out information to the media and then continue his rampage? Why was the campus not shut down immediately? The lack of leadership blows me away. Say what you may like about Bush's leadership but his order to stop all flights after 911 to get a handle on things was the wisest thing at the time and probably saved many lives.

In so many of these violence cases there are serious warning signs such as the Colombine murders.

These may be ramblings of a crazed man but he's right the blood is on a lot of other peoples hands involved in that situation. Even the media and politicians if you ask me who are using this situation to their benefit.

Why can't these kids be seperated out and given the help they need? So someone told him he needed to get help. Did they bother to see if he had the means available to get the help he so desperately needed? Its easy to say go there. What if he could not afford it? Maybe thats a possible reason he hated rich kids because they didn't understand what he was going through struggling to make it. He couldn't balance it all out

Why do we always have to wait until something happens until something major happens , then wring our hands and go why? Or say well of course that's why it happened. I'm tired of this type of thinking. When will we stop expecting people with serious unresolved issues going on to think normally? When are we going to try and prevent things from ever going this far? The blood is on others hands too if you ask me.

Then I don't like the crazy angles people go off to try and prevent such things. I don't think gun control is the answer here. Its probably the reason more people aren't alive. A determined person will use whatever they can and will do whatever despite bans. We still don't get it. How much more blood will have to be shed. (I don't want to know )

I can't believe we'd rather support people in prison for years and pay massive lawsuits rather then put the money to get these people help or to seperate out people with known issues who cannot handle themselves. We spend more time protecting extreme behavior then calling it out and dealing with it before it gets to the point where 33 lives are lost

Its maddening.

Yes that man is a disturbed killer but the blood of the 33 is not just on his hands.

[CrimsonKairos]

Who knows if he was abused. His plays suggest he was.

The problem is people are hestitant to point to someone and say, "He needs help, he's crazy, blah, blah, blah" because first, if they're border-line crazy then having all these officials descend on them might push them over the edge; second, if they are crazy and it gets out who "ratted them out" then that person is seriously afraid for their lives; third, mental science is so subjective.

Unfortunately, I think alot of innocent introverts are gonna' get a bad rap from this incident. Y'know, the quiet kids who don't do alot of activities (that was me during highschool :)). Just becuase you don't need a ton of friends doesn't mean you're gonna' go Rambo on your classmates.

Still, there is evidence that the police, school and medical officials dropped the ball with Cho's case.

[rosie321]

Who knows if he was abused. His plays suggest he was.

The problem is people are hestitant to point to someone and say, "He needs help, he's crazy, blah, blah, blah" because first, if they're border-line crazy then having all these officials descend on them might push them over the edge; second, if they are crazy and it gets out who "ratted them out" then that person is seriously afraid for their lives; third, mental science is so subjective.

Unfortunately, I think alot of innocent introverts are gonna' get a bad rap from this incident. Y'know, the quiet kids who don't do alot of activities (that was me during highschool :)). Just becuase you don't need a ton of friends doesn't mean you're gonna' go Rambo on your classmates.

Still, there is evidence that the police, school and medical officials dropped the ball with Cho's case.

I understand your point about peoples hesitation to point out another. But look at the cost for not doing anything either?

Mental science is subjective and I certainly don't want to go back to the way people were inhumanely treated before. But this guy had more than introversion as his issues. It wasn't him just not hanging out with lots of other kids or participating in a lot of activities. He demonstrated a lot of other serious disturbing behaviors that should have demanded further monitoring. Or in the very least greater protection should be made for others. Granted I'd also hate to see every introvert or different kind of person sent for mental help. But we're not talking about that. There are some people who have serious social and behavioral issues that can clearly be seen and identified. This guy had teacher seriously troubled by what she had seen, he was taken to court, was suicidal. the list goes on. He had lots of issues and was excited by violence. No one is doing any good by ignoring such things. This is not normal social behavior by any means.

[rosie321]

The problem is people are hestitant to point to someone and say, "He needs help, he's crazy, blah, blah, blah" because first, if they're border-line crazy then having all these officials descend on them might push them over the edge; second, if they are crazy and it gets out who "ratted them out" then that person is seriously afraid for their lives; third, mental science is so subjective.

Unfortunately, I think alot of innocent introverts are gonna' get a bad rap from this incident. Y'know, the quiet kids who don't do alot of activities (that was me during highschool ). Just becuase you don't need a ton of friends doesn't mean you're gonna' go Rambo on your classmates.

Crimson was thinking of your comments above.

I don't mean to put you on the spot but I have to raise these questions. Your quotes brought these thought to mind. I'm going to use the general excuses as to why people might not act with something else.

You have expressed before your appreciation of profiling to scout out terrorists. How do you know for sure who is a terrorist or not?

To do whatever it takes to protect our country and save lives you agreed to the scanning of every person, without reasonable concern that they would do harm. Your first reason as to why one would do nothing in your above quote concerns me.

Should we worry about offending a potential terrorist and pushing him over the edge? Especially when all the security approaches him? The terrorist is going to do what he is going to do regardless. We already made it ok to presume everyone is a potential terrorist by the scans. Therefore we have no idea who may get crazed because of it or come back after the security or bystanders because he was ever considered to be one.

Why should profiling people with violent, harmful or extremely deviant behavior as this guy demonstrated be any different? Why would keeping a cautious eye on people with recognizeable and extremely deviant behaviors be any worse than going after potential terrorists?

I think there might have been a chance for this guy to get help if someone had taken the issues seriously as there may be for anyone interested to do something in the future. There are certain signs to people going off. Just as there are signs of the Lords coming. There is a possiblity this guy may have been able to turn around. If not the people might be better protected at least. When someone is suspected of terrorism or makes threats they are taken care of immediately. Why is this different?

Instead, now we have 33 dead because many people knew this guy was not right and those in power positions did nothing to stop it. How come see typical characteristics and patterns over and over again after each tragedy with few exceptions. Despite this knowledge we have tied our hands behind our back and do nothing. We don't want to hurt someone , or make them mad or be wrong.

But now that the murder bar has been raised to 32 murder victims, isn't stopping one potential murderer worth the risk?

[CrimsonKairos]

Whoa, whoa, whoa rosie. Slow down friend. :)

If I recall, someone asked what possible reasons could account for the VA murderer not being dealt with before he blew up.

I gave a few reasons. I didn't say they represented my personal beliefs.

I absolutely believe the system failed and that the ball was fumbled so often and so badly that there's no excuse for not stopping Cho or whatever his name is.

A reason alone is not an excuse. I'm not excusing the authorities, rosie. I was giving possible reasons why people wouldn't have done more.

I'm not going to be surprised when VA Tech and the police involved have their pants sued off by the victims' families.

[rosie321]

Whoa, whoa, whoa rosie. Slow down friend. :)

If I recall, someone asked what possible reasons could account for the VA murderer not being dealt with before he blew up.

I gave a few reasons. I didn't say they represented my personal beliefs.

I absolutely believe the system failed and that the ball was fumbled so often and so badly that there's no excuse for not stopping Cho or whatever his name is.

A reason alone is not an excuse. I'm not excusing the authorities, rosie. I was giving possible reasons why people wouldn't have done more.

I'm not going to be surprised when VA Tech and the police involved have their pants sued off by the victims' families.

I'm sorry Crimson I didn't mean to come down on YOU like that .

You gave good points as to why people might not have tried to stop. Personally I agree thats probably some of the reasons why people didn't too. Thats what really bothers me and set me off. I'm just angered in general by those reasons people keep using . We keep sticking by them and tragedy after tragedy happens. Then we stop and ask why? (for the camera). Probably because we're stupid and don't learn We don't pay attention to obvious things. Warning bells were ringing and they were clearly ignored. We keep doing the same stupid things over and over. We'd rather pay attention afterwards.

I brought up the terrorism thing because I wanted to address those excuses and question their ultimate cost. We didn't tolerate those type of excuses for post 9-11 terrorism. It has stopped much loss of life in this country. This would probably help with these school shootings too. Profiling people before a crime has occured. Then maybe we can even do something different, give them adequate chance for help before it gets to that point.

Theres a cost either way. Do we want to pay for prevention or cleanup costs?

There will be another senseless crime like this to happen if we don't stop using these excuses and others.I'm not suggesting chasing down every person who's a little different. Wouldn't it make more sense to try and find help for the serious risks or do whats needed to protect others? I want reasonable solutions now Not questioning afterwards. The lawsuits afterwards can never make up for what hasn't been done . Neither can asking why.

All done with my ranting now

[JcDean78]

What really got me last night was the fact that they are showing his picture everywhere. They are releasing his rantings and they released his freaking video! WHY!!!

That is EXACTLY what he wanted! He wanted his voice heard. Now others like him and will see how the media has "Glorified" what this crazy sob has done. And trust me, there are others out there like him.

It has already started. There were threats around the country yesterday, one kid took a gun to school and pointed it at his class mates. However he decided to take his own life instead of theirs.

Make no mistake about it, there are many people out there similar to this guy with the same feelings and attitudes. To Glorify this guy on TV is one of the LOWEST things the media has ever done.

[shanstress70]

What really got me last night was the fact that they are showing his picture everywhere. They are releasing his rantings and they released his freaking video! WHY!!!

That is EXACTLY what he wanted! He wanted his voice heard. Now others like him and will see how the media has "Glorified" what this crazy sob has done. And trust me, there are others out there like him.

It has already started. There were threats around the country yesterday, one kid took a gun to school and pointed it at his class mates. However he decided to take his own life instead of theirs.

Make no mistake about it, there are many people out there similar to this guy with the same feelings and attitudes. To Glorify this guy on TV is one of the LOWEST things the media has ever done.

AMEN! I was watching some news program and read along thebottom of the screen that the shooter had mailed a video to NBC. I immediately thought, "Please tell me they will not show that. Take the high road, NBC." Then I turned to MSNBC, and what did I see? Right, the shooter was talking to me. I'm SO disappointed in NBC. Sad thing is, this will get them the ratings they so desire.

And before someone asks, NO, I did not continue watching it. And I will not watch it. I may read a transcript, but I'm not interested in seeing the video.