timing of tithing settlement

[dahlia]

I was a little freaked out by the idea of a settlement meeting until folks here explained it to me. I'm glad I had some foreknowledge before going in. Yeah, it takes about 10 minutes, which includes small talk. You aren't the only person in the ward; the bishop's got a schedule to keep. : )

[Vort]

If this is a sensitive topic that should not be discussed in a public forum, that's okay. I just have never understood why a tithing settlement meeting would take more than 30 seconds. The bishop would ask, "Full, part, or none?" and it's over. Or do you bring in your W-2s and bank statements for a mini-audit? And I won't get into gross or net, there is plenty to read already about that on the Internet now.

The bishop normally takes the opportunity to visit with your family, maybe reinforce your teachings about tithing to your children, and so forth. No W-2s or any other such nonsense. Tithing is not tax, and you pay not because you are forced to on penalty of jail, but because you want to build the kingdom and participate more fully in the blessings of Church membership.

If you tell the bishop beforehand, "I would like this to be as quick as humanly possible," he may well give you the thirty-second version you suggest.

[Dravin]

Seems to me that a record of your contributions exists in some indisputable form at every point in the year, so having tithing settlement at the end of the year won't increase the accuracy of Church records or of your end-of-year record of contributions.

A few points:

1) I've had some of my father's donations put under my name (my middle name is his first name). So in at least one case the double checking of records that often occurs during tithing settlement did indeed improve the accuracy of Church records. Additionally if you forgot to pay tithing on a paycheck looking at the records can cue you in on this if there is a time gap with no tithing payment so you can make an effort to pay the tithing you forgot. As pointed out this isn't strictly required to be done by the Bishop at tithing settlement, though my experience has always been that it is.

2) The purpose of tithing settlement proper (as opposed to the ancillary things often occurring at the same time such a brief checking up on the family, reinforcing the doctrine of tithing to those who may not fully understand it yet such as children, and double checking financial records) is for you to declare to a Judge in Israel your tithing status. You donations don't contain that information. If I tithed 7.5% that won't show up on my donation records. For it to show up the ward clerk would need access to complete financial information (including statements on any cash income) which he:

A - Doesn't have.

B - Doesn't have the time to pour over for everyone in the ward.

C - Can't calculate as income is not rigorously defined for accounting purposes, for example the whole net versus gross issue that you mention.

3) Even if the information was contained in the records it is an opportunity to be accountable to priesthood leader's as it pertains to your following of the Law of Tithing. Other than temple recommend interviews (which not everyone receives and is only every other year), in my experience, it is the only regular opportunity to be accountable to said priesthood leaders.

If this is a sensitive topic that should not be discussed in a public forum, that's okay. I just have never understood why a tithing settlement meeting would take more than 30 seconds. The bishop would ask, "Full, part, or none?" and it's over. Or do you bring in your W-2s and bank statements for a mini-audit? And I won't get into gross or net, there is plenty to read already about that on the Internet now.

Others have addressed this so I won't go into detail, but baring the ancillary stuff I mentioned above it does pretty much boil down to, "Full, part, or non tithe-payer?"

Edited October 18, 2013 by Dravin

[Leah]

That's pretty much all it is. Our bishop usually uses it as an opportunity to check in with the family and see how everything is going, and has us check our membership records for accuracy. Even then, with 7 of us, we're out of there in 15 minutes or less.

I changed wards a few months ago, but my last bishop saw it this way as well. That's one reason I don't understand why people see tithing settlement as a waste of time. My bishop was always excited for the opportunity to spend time with each and ever family. For some families, it was his only opportunity to chat with them all year.

It was always interesting to watch the different bishops in action. We had three wards in our building, so two of the bishop's offices were right next to each other. The bishop from the other ward ran the members through like clockwork...not one second over. Our bishop took whatever time was needed for each individual family. No one ever complained.

As a convert in 2011, I was a little nervous about my first tithing settlement. I didn't really know what to expect. It was an amazing experience. The presence of the Spirit was strong. I left the meeting feeling like it was a privilege to have been in such a meeting.

[MarginOfError]

I changed wards a few months ago, but my last bishop saw it this way as well. That's one reason I don't understand why people see tithing settlement as a waste of time. My bishop was always excited for the opportunity to spend time with each and ever family. For some families, it was his only opportunity to chat with them all year.

I had a number of frustrations with tithing settlement when I was coordinating it.

Starting in early November, we would set up two nights a week that the bishop would be available, with 2-3 hours in each night. These were scheduled through the last week in December. Each night would have 8 - 12 fifteen minute slots for a family to meet with the bishop. The first three slots always filled up quickly. Almost never did any of the other slots get filled.

We would do everything but beg and plead, people to sign up for tithing settlement. We would point out that as inconvenient as it is to have to wait for an hour after church to do your fifteen minute tithing settlement, the bishop still had to show up 16 times in those two months to fit it all in. That's 16 times the bishop is leaving his family. It really irked me that people couldn't be bothered to inconvenience themselves one day to make it a little easier on the bishop and his family.

On top of that, a clerk and a counselor are supposed to be present at every session of tithing settlement to process all of the payments as they are received. That means three people have to leave their families every time there is tithing settlement. And most of the time, the clerk and the counsleor sit around doing nothing.

On the off chance that someone does submit tithing, there's no reason it needs to be processed immediately. There's no reason it can't be locked in the bishop's desk until the next time donations are processed.

Inevitably, after all the begging and prodding to get people to sign up for tithing settlement early (and no one actually doing it), the bishop would have to set aside more nights and more hours around the holidays so that he could get in everybody who wanted to do their tithing settlement at the last minute.

so anyway, like I said before, I'm not sure I should say it's a waste of time, because those 15 minutes the bishop gets with each family is precious. But it a massively inefficient way to utilize a lot of people's time. And there's no reason at all that those interviews can't be spread out over the course of a year and still accomplish the same result.

To borrow a cliche, the way we do tithing settlement now is working harder, not working smarter. If we were truly interested in taking to heart all of the counsel to reduce the burden on our bishops and leaders, we'd change the way we do this.

[Guest]

To borrow a cliche, the way we do tithing settlement now is working harder, not working smarter. If we were truly interested in taking to heart all of the counsel to reduce the burden on our bishops and leaders, we'd change the way we do this.

What would you suggest?

[kapikui]

Can someone explain precisely what goes on during tithing settlement? I converted early in a calendar year and then moved to a new ward at the end of that year and sort of fell through the cracks and was never called in. By the 2nd year I had become inactive. I had friends who talked a little about it, but it was mostly folklore, like how someone was able to sign some stock over to the Church. (To this day, I cannot imagine how uncomfortable a conversation this must have been with the bishop.)

Seems to me that a record of your contributions exists in some indisputable form at every point in the year, so having tithing settlement at the end of the year won't increase the accuracy of Church records or of your end-of-year record of contributions.

If this is a sensitive topic that should not be discussed in a public forum, that's okay. I just have never understood why a tithing settlement meeting would take more than 30 seconds. The bishop would ask, "Full, part, or none?" and it's over. Or do you bring in your W-2s and bank statements for a mini-audit? And I won't get into gross or net, there is plenty to read already about that on the Internet now.

Sometimes mistakes are made in entering that data. I go to the same ward as my parents. One year the financial clerk regularly got confused as to which one of us had given them money. Most of tithing settlement consists of small talk and visiting. The actual meat of it is the bishop asking you to review the record he gives you to be sure it looks accurate. Then he asks you if it's a full tithing. That's about it. The longest part of the actual meat is you doublechecking their records against (hopefully) your own.

[MarginOfError]

What would you suggest?

JAG and I already proposed a couple of alternatives here and here.

[Zeitgeist]

The actual meat of it is the bishop asking you to review the record he gives you to be sure it looks accurate. Then he asks you if it's a full tithing. That's about it. The longest part of the actual meat is you doublechecking their records against (hopefully) your own.

This sounds totally unacceptable. I'm a vegetarian.

(Couldn't resist this, sorry. I'm often amused by anti-religious types who can't see metaphors, symbols, parables, and theological art.)

[Drpepper]

Full, part or not a tithe payer. What is a part tithe payer? I've never heard of this before and I've never had a Bishop ask me if I'm a part tithe payer. I figured you either are or not.

[Lakumi]

Full, part or not a tithe payer. What is a part tithe payer? I've never heard of this before and I've never had a Bishop ask me if I'm a part tithe payer. I figured you either are or not.

I would assume it'd be the person who works as a temp or something?

I used to work as a temp, some weeks I'd get work, others not, sometimes it'd go for months... sometimes I am unemployed all together.

[Drpepper]

I would assume it'd be the person who works as a temp or something?

I used to work as a temp, some weeks I'd get work, others not, sometimes it'd go for months... sometimes I am unemployed all together.

Tithing is based on increase or more commonly income.

If your not working your not receiving income.

[MarginOfError]

Full, part or not a tithe payer. What is a part tithe payer? I've never heard of this before and I've never had a Bishop ask me if I'm a part tithe payer. I figured you either are or not.

There are four categories into which a person may declare his or her tithing status.

Full-tithe payer: a 10% tithe is paid

Part-tithe payer: Tithing is paid, but the amount is less than 10%

Non-tithe payer: No tithing is paid

Exempt: No income was received, and so no tithing was to be paid.

If a person does not make a declaration to the bishop, the bishop is authorized to make a declaration for the person, but is only permitted to use one of the first three categories. That is, the bishop is not authorized to declare a person exempt from tithing.

[pam]

There are four categories into which a person may declare his or her tithing status.

Full-tithe payer: a 10% tithe is paid

Part-tithe payer: Tithing is paid, but the amount is less than 10%

Non-tithe payer: No tithing is paid

Exempt: No income was received, and so no tithing was to be paid.

If a person does not make a declaration to the bishop, the bishop is authorized to make a declaration for the person, but is only permitted to use one of the first three categories. That is, the bishop is not authorized to declare a person exempt from tithing.

How does the Bishop determine between full and part if no declaration is made? Especially since we don't have to declare our income. We only state if it is a full tithe?

[Drpepper]

There are four categories into which a person may declare his or her tithing status.

Full-tithe payer: a 10% tithe is paid

Part-tithe payer: Tithing is paid, but the amount is less than 10%

Non-tithe payer: No tithing is paid

Exempt: No income was received, and so no tithing was to be paid.

If a person does not make a declaration to the bishop, the bishop is authorized to make a declaration for the person, but is only permitted to use one of the first three categories. That is, the bishop is not authorized to declare a person exempt from tithing.

If I only pay half a tithe does that mean I get half the blessings?

[Guest]

How does the Bishop determine between full and part if no declaration is made? Especially since we don't have to declare our income. We only state if it is a full tithe?

Through prayer and exercise of his priesthood power of discernment.

[Drpepper]

There are four categories into which a person may declare his or her tithing status.

Full-tithe payer: a 10% tithe is paid

Part-tithe payer: Tithing is paid, but the amount is less than 10%

Non-tithe payer: No tithing is paid

Exempt: No income was received, and so no tithing was to be paid.

If a person does not make a declaration to the bishop, the bishop is authorized to make a declaration for the person, but is only permitted to use one of the first three categories. That is, the bishop is not authorized to declare a person exempt from tithing.

Not that i don't believe you, but is that out of the handbook? I couldn't find it.. Further more to only keep half a covenant wouldn't that negate all blessings associated with the covenant. Can a person half sin? To not pay tithing 1/10 is a sin.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Drpepper