Al Mohler @ BYU!

[phi39]

I am a student at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, KY. Dr. Mohler is our president and they always post his articles on a bulletin board in the hallway. I did a double-take and spun around to read this when I saw where he delivered this speech: BYU! Just curious what you guys think. Here is the website, article/transcript is frontpage:

AlbertMohler.com

[rameumptom]

I'm not surprised. given our religions agree on 80% of things, there is a lot in common for us to share. We believe that God gives inspiration and wisdom to men throughout the world, and we embrace that truth and wisdom regardless of where it is found. That the world drifts further and further away from basic Christian tenets may bring Mormons and Baptists closer together, as well.

[NeuroTypical]

Out of the thousands of critics of my church, coming from all backgrounds, levels of education, charitable intent, and overall niceness/meanness, I have to say that Baptists have struggled to rank among the relevant. I think it's maybe because of the various low-quality "experts on mormonism" that get speaking fees to tour Baptist congregations. Peddling outdated nonsense that was well answered a century ago, but still sounds good to a person who doesn't know any better.

I welcome Dr. Mohler's visit, and hope it will prompt Baptists to look more closely, and discard some of the silly nonsense some of them believe about me.

My wife had the real-life experience of sitting next to a Baptist on an airplane who was genuinely interested about her horns. He wanted to know why he couldn't see them - did she have them surgically removed as a child? No really - this really happened.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[phi39]

I am curious to hear what reactions might be to the content of his speech from those who were there or read the transcript. I was actually excited that he was there at all. Do Evangelical, let alone Baptist speakers often come to BYU? I don't know what the context of the speech was, whether a chapel service or some special event. What can I say? It jumped out at me.

P.S.

I actually had an issue with horn removal a while back. The doctor said the operation would be impossible and unnecessary due to the growth locations. So now I just wear I giant chicken suit.

[prisonchaplain]

Your seminary president followed my fellowship's (Assemblies of God) General Superintendent. I read a summary of the transcript. Dr. Mohler focused on religious liberty, and one of the most interesting lines was something to the effect that LDS and Baptists may not walk together into heaven but they may join in going to jail.

[NeuroTypical]

Oh - you actually wanted us to read the thing? Well ok then.

I really liked his speech. I have much appreciation for his transparent beliefs and motives:

I am not here because I believe we are going to heaven together. I do not believe that. I believe that salvation comes only to those who believe and trust only in Christ and in his substitutionary atonement for salvation. I believe in justification by faith alone, in Christ alone. I love and respect you as friends, and as friends we would speak only what we believe to be true, especially on matters of eternal significance. We inhabit separate and irreconcilable theological worlds, made clear with respect to the doctrine of the Trinity. And yet here I am, and gladly so. We will speak to one another of what we most sincerely believe to be true, precisely because we love and respect one another.

I do not believe that we are going to heaven together, but I do believe we may go to jail together. I do not mean to exaggerate, but we are living in the shadow of a great moral revolution that we commonly believe will have grave and devastating human consequences. Your faith has held high the importance of marriage and family. Your theology requires such an affirmation, and it is lovingly lived out by millions of Mormon families. That is why I and my evangelical brothers and sisters are so glad to have Mormon neighbors. We stand together for the natural family, for natural marriage, for the integrity of sexuality within marriage alone, and for the hope of human flourishing.

[dahlia]

I was just reading the speech after being pointed to it on FB. I used to listen to Christian radio and believe there was a show by a man named Mohler - is this the same person? I think the pronunciation is different than what it looks like, which is why I'm not sure it's the same person.

If they want to be ecumenical, I wish some of these Christian leaders would tell their people to stop demonstrating at LDS events and historical sites. I have a hard time taking any of these 'Christian' leaders seriously until they truly, through their actions, allow us to worship and visit our holy places in peace. I've been to the Nauvoo Pageant and while the others walked past the demonstrators, I got up in someone's face. So, I'm glad Dr Mohler can see where we may have common ground in the secularism of America, but that's about it.

[skippy740]

I've been to the Nauvoo Pageant and while the others walked past the demonstrators, I got up in someone's face.

I wish I could've seen that!

[bytebear]

My wife had the real-life experience of sitting next to a Baptist on an airplane who was genuinely interested about her horns. He wanted to know why he couldn't see them - did she have them surgically removed as a child? No really - this really happened.

Yes, I had them removed. You can feel the scars. Here feel them. Do you feel anything? Anything at all? Are you sure you don't feel anything? Not even a little bit silly?

[prisonchaplain]

If they want to be ecumenical, I wish some of these Christian leaders would tell their people to stop demonstrating at LDS events and historical sites. I have a hard time taking any of these 'Christian' leaders seriously until they truly, through their actions, allow us to worship and visit our holy places in peace. I've been to the Nauvoo Pageant and while the others walked past the demonstrators, I got up in someone's face. So, I'm glad Dr Mohler can see where we may have common ground in the secularism of America, but that's about it.

First, let me assure you that ecumenism is not the goal here--certainly not for Dr. Mohler. The word implies a goal of eventually uniting in a formal, organizational manner. Evangelicals are loathe to do any such thing. Mohler specifically wanted to encourage continued cooperation on social/political issues. More specifically, he voiced what some Evangelicals and Catholics believe--that we are allies in the cause of religious liberty--especially in relation to same-sex marriage.

My sense, though I hate to speak for him, is that Dr. Wood (Assemblies of God) was simply trying to foster better understanding and civility. Could it be that rather than condemning the negative (on either side), highlighting areas of agreement and cooperation will eventually drown out the background clatter?

But, if it's mea culpas you want, one evangelical leader did deliver: A leading evangelical speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle and says evangelicals have spread lies about LDS beliefs. - Beliefnet.com

The reaction was pretty strong...who are you to apologize for us? Therein lies the problem. Many Evangelicals/Fundamentalists have no organizational leadership beyond local congregations. The protestors are usually members of independent or non-denominational churches. Quite often it is a "para-church" ministry that draws volunteers from these churches. And, of course, the leaders of these groups believe their tactics are exactly what's needed--but the "institutional church" isn't stepping up.

So, take the messages from these leaders for what they are--gestures of civility, and an effort to communicate. No ecumenisms, no endorsements, no hidden agendas really. As far as "fruit" goes, these events sure beat the cold theological wars of the past.

Edited October 24, 2013 by prisonchaplain

[phi39]

Your seminary president followed my fellowship's (Assemblies of God) General Superintendent. I read a summary of the transcript. Dr. Mohler focused on religious liberty, and one of the most interesting lines was something to the effect that LDS and Baptists may not walk together into heaven but they may join in going to jail.

Interesting!

And yes, I think a lot of us may live to see a day when we end up in jail or persecuted in various ways along with others we don't expect.

[phi39]

I have never understood why someone would protest a religion. In any case, even if Billy Graham said something to them I'm sure they would demand to check him for signs of horn removal. I've heard about the really offensive things they'll do; for what it's worth I apologize since they won't.

Part of why I am so glad that Mohler spoke there is because I hope he will set an example for our side to follow. If we actually don't think we are going to heaven together and truly do want to win you to Christ, then dialogue like that is the better way. At least you get to see that we aren't all crazies!

[Just_A_Guy]

Hey--he came back!