Doctrine regarding miscarriages?

[Normandy]

My husband and I have had many miscarriages and I'm seeking some comfort. This is actually one big reason I was drawn to the churches doctrine on eternal families. But I've recently learned it's more complicated than 'that' with miscarriages.

All of our babies had beating hearts. I know doctrine says that the spirit enters sometime between conception and birth -- and it's my personal opinion this happens when the heart begins to beat and the body can sustain life and a spirit. The heart usually begins beating sometimes between 5 and 6 weeks of pregnancy (sometimes earlier/later. Every baby is different!). So in my mind I have convinced myself they all had spirits. I also want to say that I knew my babies were gone before any signs or symptoms of my miscarriages began. I just felt them "leave" me. I truly believe I felt their spirits leaving me. After reading that, it's okay if you think I'm crazy. :)

Why did I miscarry my babies? (My doctors have given me a physical reason that could have caused it, but is there a spiritual reason. Is God punishing me? Were their spirits too righteous for Earth?)

Where did their spirits go?

Will I ever be with them or know them again?

Will they be apart of my eternal family?

Those are the questions I want some type of answer for.

Is there official doctrine on this?

Unofficial doctrine/thoughts/books?

Thanks for any insight on this.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Normandy

[Anddenex]

I just felt them "leave" me. I truly believe I felt their spirits leaving me. After reading that, it's okay if you think I'm crazy. :)

Nope, I don't think you are crazy -- at all.

Why did I miscarry my babies? (My doctors have given me a physical reason that could have caused it, but is there a spiritual reason. Is God punishing me? Were their spirits too righteous for Earth?)

First question - I don't know, but physically something happens and the miscarriage results. There could be a number of physiological reasons for a miscarriage. Trust the doctor.

Second question - miscarriages are not a punishment; they are simply an unfortunate result of having imperfect bodies. My wife experienced 4 herself, one of which she thinks we lost twins.

Third question - There is a quote from Joseph Smith emphasizing such, that possibly the reason why some spirits are taken so soon is due to the need only to have a body and then return to their God. However, if they were, then they were, if not, then possibly the next time a couple conceives it will be that child. Other than that I don't know of any official doctrine specifying miscarriages and what happens with their spirits.

Where did their spirits go?

This depends on whether or not the spirit entered the body and God's will. If the spirit entered the body and this satisfied God's will, then they would be like any other child who passed away before they were eight years old. They would return straight away to God.

If not, then they would be like any other spirit waiting to obtain a body, in other words the same place we all were until we were given a body.

Will I ever be with them or know them again?

Same as the question before.

Will they be apart of my eternal family?

If sealed, then yes. Then again, it depends on which category they fall into and God's will. Either way God works out everything in a loving, just, and merciful manner.

[Normandy]

If sealed, then yes. Then again, it depends on which category they fall into and God's will. Either way God works out everything in a loving, just, and merciful manner.

Oh man, that brings with it it's own questions.

Do you mean me sealed to my husband, or the baby sealed to us? I'm assuming it's the first because from what I've read miscarriages are not sealed to parents.

[Anddenex]

Oh man, that brings with it it's own questions.

Do you mean me sealed to my husband, or the baby sealed to us? I'm assuming it's the first because from what I've read miscarriages are not sealed to parents.

I am meaning both. When I was sealed to my wife, our children are sealed unto us -- born under the covenant.

Miscarriages are a mystery because we have not been informed as to when the spirit enters the body. A miscarriage may happen 7 months into a pregnancy. If so, this may be align with a predicated law that the unborn is technically born in the covenant. If that is so, then this child would be one that the parents would possibly raise within the millennium.

Through the sealing of parents that bond is already formed upon birth -- a sealing. This is why in the temple we seal children as if they were born within the covenant. Thus, it depends upon eternal laws already established, already predicated, as to whether or not a miscarriage would be defined, or accepted, as born in the covenant; however, only God would be the judge of that.

[Vort]

I am told that in former decades and centuries, a child who died within a few hours of birth was listed as "stillborn". So I think we really do not understand the mechanics of the actual workings of the child-to-parent sealing.

[Drpepper]

I think anddenex has given a very good explanation on a topic that only God fully comprehends

[MarginOfError]

The Church has no doctrine regarding miscarriages. It has policies regarding the sealing ordinance, but those policies only reflect upon the mortal limitations of the human mind to comprehend the things of eternity.

The opinions of when a spirit enters a body are many. Some believe it happens at conception, some believe it happens at the first heart beat, and some believe that it varies, but that a woman can tell when she feels the 'moment of quickening' described by Brigham Young. Still others believe that it may not be a firm event, and that the Spirit is free to come and go during the pregnancy. The simple fact is this: we don't know.

Personally, I don't care to speculate on it publicly any more because it usually causes more harm than good to individuals such as yourself. I find it better to acknowledge the beliefs of the person who is suffering and act as though their beliefs are helping to inform their pain.

Be warned: I'm going to speak somewhat clinically here. It may feel cold and detached--but that's somewhat normal for me and my career.

Why did I miscarry my babies? (My doctors have given me a physical reason that could have caused it, but is there a spiritual reason. Is God punishing me?

No. Emphatically no. As many as 40% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage, and many of those before the woman even knows she's pregnant. It is common for embryos to self-terminate. It's part of the natural process that produces healthy children.

I work in a research field that includes fertility treatments. Earlier this year I had the opportunity to go into the IVF lab and observe the data being collected in one of our new incubators. What makes this incubator special is that it takes photographs of the embryos every 20 minutes without removing the embryos from the incubator. So, for the first time, we are able to look at mounds of quality data without jeopardizing the health of the embryos.

The usual process in IVF treatments is to fertilize about 12 ovum (eggs) and place them in the incubator. The incubator is a controlled, healthy environment for the development of embryos up to a little more than 8 days. Placing the eggs in the incubator removes them from an environment in the mother's own body that may have been hostile to the embryos. Even under the controlled environment of the incubator, I would say it is only about one-third to one half of the embryos develop normally and survive. In fact, the number is probably, not coincidentally, around 40%.

The sad part of your story is that your miscarriage rate seems to be higher than normal. That is, without question, a tragedy. What makes it so tragic is that you did nothing to deserve this. Your body, for whatever reason, is not working along the "ideal." That happens, and it happens somewhat randomly. It is a body chemistry thing. And I promise you, God is not manipulating your body chemistry to punish you for any choices you made.

Were their spirits too righteous for Earth?)

Maybe. Maybe not. We don't really know. Some have speculated this is the reason, but I have my doubts that it's true for all miscarriages and still births. This seems, to me, to be one of those things we tell people to make them feel better. But I'm a cynic and could be wrong. I wouldn't mind being wrong. But objectively speaking, I just don't know.

Where did their spirits go?

They would go to only one of two places. Either 1) they went on to the spirit world having completed their mortal existence, or 2) they returned the the premortal realm to await the development of another body. Neither option is all that bad.

Will I ever be with them or know them again?

Regardless of what happened to such spirits following the miscarriage, you will one day meet these spirits and recognize them as brothers and sisters from an earlier existence.

Will they be apart of my eternal family?

This is a complicated question. Stillborn children are permitted to be placed on family group sheets for family history purposes. However, stillborn children (in the modern context, not the historical context described by Vort) do not have membership records and, therefore, cannot be listed as 'sealed' to their parents. Stillborn children of parents who were not sealed prior to the delivery are not sealed to their parents. Miscarriages would be treated similarly under those policies. But, again, those policies refer to the limitations of our mortal understandings. I would caution against applying those policies as eternal doctrines. We don't know what to do in these situations, and until we get further direction from Heaven, we seem to have decided to do nothing.

The last thing I'll say is this*--if you've had several miscarriages and are dwelling on these kinds of questions a lot, you may want to consider getting professional counseling. Miscarriages take a toll on the body and the mind similar to post-partum recovery. If you are having repeated miscarriages, counseling may help you process the grief and other emotions that come with it.

I'm deeply sorry for the losses you have experienced. I lack the words to express comfort in these situations. I hope you find the comfort and peace you are seeking.

*Disclaimer: I only know you from one post, so I can't tell whether your attention to these matters is overly intense or not. But if you find yourself obsessing over these, or you can't focus on anything else but these questiosn for long periods of time, or you are losing sleep thinking about these matters, you might need to seek help.

[Normandy]

Thanks for the great replies.

I guess I had hoped for something more concrete in the doctrine, but I realize not everything has been revealed to us. Which, honestly, is not comforting to me at all in my circumstances.

And my situation gets more complicated because my husband isn't a member and we aren't sealed and I was married before and we had miscarriages too. Obviously this is something that God is going to have to help me deal with and come to peace with.

I did see a counselor for help in processing this. She told me that if I leaned towards spiritual comfort, I should try and seek it there. Catch 22 I suppose.

[apexviper]

My husband and I have had many miscarriages and I'm seeking some comfort. This is actually one big reason I was drawn to the churches doctrine on eternal families. But I've recently learned it's more complicated than 'that' with miscarriages.

All of our babies had beating hearts. I know doctrine says that the spirit enters sometime between conception and birth -- and it's my personal opinion this happens when the heart begins to beat and the body can sustain life and a spirit. The heart usually begins beating sometimes between 5 and 6 weeks of pregnancy (sometimes earlier/later. Every baby is different!). So in my mind I have convinced myself they all had spirits. I also want to say that I knew my babies were gone before any signs or symptoms of my miscarriages began. I just felt them "leave" me. I truly believe I felt their spirits leaving me. After reading that, it's okay if you think I'm crazy. :)

Why did I miscarry my babies? (My doctors have given me a physical reason that could have caused it, but is there a spiritual reason. Is God punishing me? Were their spirits too righteous for Earth?)

Where did their spirits go?

Will I ever be with them or know them again?

Will they be apart of my eternal family?

Those are the questions I want some type of answer for.

Is there official doctrine on this?

Unofficial doctrine/thoughts/books?

Thanks for any insight on this.

For starters, ALL children who die before the age of accountability, including those unborn, are heirs of the Celestial kingdom.

As for why they were taken, nobody really knows. I've heard it been said, although its not entirely doctrine, that those who are taken before the age of accountability are too righteous for the earth. They would be the equivalent to those of the city of Enoch who did no sin and were taken up into the kingdom of God.

[McLainDow]

Thanks for the great replies.

I guess I had hoped for something more concrete in the doctrine, but I realize not everything has been revealed to us. Which, honestly, is not comforting to me at all in my circumstances.

And my situation gets more complicated because my husband isn't a member and we aren't sealed and I was married before and we had miscarriages too. Obviously this is something that God is going to have to help me deal with and come to peace with.

I did see a counselor for help in processing this. She told me that if I leaned towards spiritual comfort, I should try and seek it there. Catch 22 I suppose.

Know that we don't understand a lot of things now but they will be revealed once the veil is lifted. Also there is a podcast called "Mormon mental health" and they have two part episode on miscarriage. Remember that regardless of any comfort you may receive that you still will go through a grieving process and It takes time to do that

[applepansy]

Thanks for the great replies.

I guess I had hoped for something more concrete in the doctrine, but I realize not everything has been revealed to us. Which, honestly, is not comforting to me at all in my circumstances.

And my situation gets more complicated because my husband isn't a member and we aren't sealed and I was married before and we had miscarriages too. Obviously this is something that God is going to have to help me deal with and come to peace with.

I did see a counselor for help in processing this. She told me that if I leaned towards spiritual comfort, I should try and seek it there. Catch 22 I suppose.

I have had three miscarriages. Two in the first trimester and one at 20 weeks. The one that I couldn't stop thinking about was the 20 week. I felt the baby's spirit leave and that's when I think his heart stopped. We say the baby. A little boy. Because I had a hard time I made this baby a subject of a lot of prayer and fasting. It took several months to get an answer. The answer was that someday I would be able to raise that child. That was a comfort.

I know if you will fast and pray with sincerity for an answer you will be comforted. You might get answers that are meant for you. Because we all have our agency (including the spirits of these babies) the answer will vary from mother to mother and child to child.

I wish you all the best.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I have had several miscarriages as well. I think there are additional questions that are brought on by this topic beyond what has already been discussed.

We know that a physical body without a spirit is dead or at least not described as "man". At the moment of conception there is live tissue, the zygote is not dead. Even with in vitro fertilization we can tell that the cells are alive. So, in that case, whose spirit is in those cells?

Either one has to believe that it is possible to have physically alive tissue that is not "man" because there is no spirit attached to it or one has to believe that whenever there is a separate entity of life, even as small as a zygote there has to be an individual spirit attached to it.

The implications of that discussion have an effect on what one believes about life before Adam. If there is live tissue available before the spirit is placed in it then it would be possible to have all sorts of pre-man forms come and go before finally there is the first man in which a spirit is placed after its physical formation. There is no "death" prior to that because those entities never had a spirit placed in it. Similarly there may not be a "death" of a zygote or a fetus until a certain point in which the spirit enters the body, or is capable of entering the body.

If one believes that there always has to be a spirit in any separate living entity then I suppose all those eternally married couples that try in vitro fertilization are going to have a lot of kids in the next life!

[Urstadt]

My mission President, Walter E. Hill, obtained this answer from the General Authorities during his tenure as President of our mission in response to questions we had for him as missionaries. He instructed us that all spirits miscarried or aborted prior to birth return to the pre-existence and "receive another assignment" (President Hill quoting the General Authorities).

[Urstadt]

We know that a physical body without a spirit is dead or at least not described as "man". At the moment of conception there is live tissue, the zygote is not dead. Even with in vitro fertilization we can tell that the cells are alive. So, in that case, whose spirit is in those cells?

I just wanted to piggy back off of this for discussion's sake only. Following this logic, single-cell organisms such as bacterium would then have to have a spirit. As far as we know, there has never been any revelation decreeing that single-celled organisms have a spirit. I would find it safe to conclude that they don't have a spirit and therefore, if the preceding statement were to hold true, a zygote could be alive without a spirit. Another monkey wrench I find curious (and nothing more) is the possibility that the zygote get's life from the spirit of the host, the mother.

Just a thought I had. I hope it contributes to the discussion. If not, then thank you for the your thought, Seminarysnoozer. It was fun for me to ponder on.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Urstadt

[person122]

I just wanted to piggy back off of this for discussion's sake only. Following this logic, single-cell organisms such as bacterium would then have to have a spirit. As far as we know, there has never been any revelation decreeing that single-celled organisms have a spirit. I would find it safe to conclude that they don't have a spirit and therefore, if the preceding statement were to hold true, a zygote could be alive without a spirit. Another monkey wrench I find curious (and nothing more) is the possibility that the zygote get's life from the spirit of the host, the mother.

I do not know if they have "spirits" as we do. I do know they have "intelligence". They know how to act in accordance with our Father's will. They love to obey Him and are happy to do it.