Who Is Jesus Christ?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 24 2004, 04:36 PM

Stephen, I hope you understand that it is not your job to make people believe what you wrote. There are a few of people on this board who do not want to know God but those who just want to feel like they are better than anybody else. It is hard to exalt yourself above others when you are learning from them.

Is this post offensive to anyone beside me? Come on TR2.....

[Snow]

Originally posted by Peace+Mar 24 2004, 09:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Mar 24 2004, 09:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Tr2@Mar 24 2004, 04:36 PM

Stephen, I hope you understand that it is not your job to make people believe what you wrote. There are a few of people on this board who do not want to know God but those who just want to feel like they are better than anybody else. It is hard to exalt yourself above others when you are learning from them.

Is this post offensive to anyone beside me? Come on TR2.....

Peace,

It is not only offensive, it is dishonest. See my post above for an explanation. I realise that my post is harsh and a bit personal but it is an honest assessment and also a called for less deceitful posting.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Peace+Mar 24 2004, 09:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peace @ Mar 24 2004, 09:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Tr2@Mar 24 2004, 04:36 PM

Stephen, I hope you understand that it is not your job to make people believe what you wrote. There are a few of people on this board who do not want to know God but those who just want to feel like they are better than anybody else. It is hard to exalt yourself above others when you are learning from them.

Is this post offensive to anyone beside me? Come on TR2.....

I edited out the worst part of it. So, considering that it was worse .................

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Snow+Mar 24 2004, 09:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Mar 24 2004, 09:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Peace@Mar 24 2004, 09:00 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Tr2@Mar 24 2004, 04:36 PM

Stephen, I hope you understand that it is not your job to make people believe what you wrote. There are a few of people on this board who do not want to know God but those who just want to feel like they are better than anybody else. It is hard to exalt yourself above others when you are learning from them.

Is this post offensive to anyone beside me? Come on TR2.....

Peace,

It is not only offensive, it is dishonest. See my post above for an explanation. I realise that my post is harsh and a bit personal but it is an honest assessment and also a called for less deceitful posting.

He is on mod status...thank heavens..

[porterrockwell]

Originally posted by Snow+Mar 24 2004, 01:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Mar 24 2004, 01:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Stephen@Mar 24 2004, 11:09 AM

No. One cannot remain in the office of a Pastor or Bishop if that person is homosexual. Also, as a side note.....women should never hold the office of a Pastor or Bishop because one of the qualifications of that office according to the Bible is: that person needs to be the husband of one wife and rule his household well. A Pastor or Bishop also needs to be above reproach.

A homosexual man- God has turned over to a reprobate mind.....because he has turned away from God doing that which is a unnatural affection.....men with men doing that which is unseemly.

So he is another thing I can't quite get my tiny mind around...

Correct me if I am mistaken but you (you're still Mormon right) align yourself religiously with the Evangelical perspective. Right? Essentially ya'll believe that the church of God consist of all denominations that accept certain doctrines and principles and that all Christians who accept Christ as their Savior are saved and belong to the body of Christ or his church. Is that essentially correct?

If so, how do you reconcile that your own church or parts of your own church (other saved Christians) think that homosexuality is perfectly alright and ordain homosexuals to be bishops or priests or whatever?

If this was directed toward me, I was not agreeing with the metaphysical form of God that Stephen presented, but the issue of Homosexuality in the Ministry.

[srm]

Originally posted by Jenda+Mar 24 2004, 09:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Mar 24 2004, 09:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Peace@Mar 24 2004, 09:00 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Tr2@Mar 24 2004, 04:36 PM

Stephen, I hope you understand that it is not your job to make people believe what you wrote. There are a few of people on this board who do not want to know God but those who just want to feel like they are better than anybody else. It is hard to exalt yourself above others when you are learning from them.

Is this post offensive to anyone beside me? Come on TR2.....

I edited out the worst part of it. So, considering that it was worse .................

Please don't 'edit it out' let us see what he has to say. maybe we should edit it yet place the whole post in an 'outer limits' type forum. I want to know what was said.

[inactivetx]

Stephen,

I am new here so forgive my ignorance. Where are you coming from? Snow assumes you are LDS, yet porterrockwall questions homosexuality in the priesthood which I would give refers to Episcopals? If this is yes, then we are kind of in the same boat.

I attend Episcopal Church (my faith before LDS) and am considering re-activating into the LDS. Maybe we can talk? And before porterrockwell has a cow - I, too, am deeply disturbed by the Episcopal Churches actions to ordain a homosexual priest, much less a bishop. My particular diosese rejects his ministry. (they can do that in the Episcopal church being Bishop led and all).

BTW - in regards to the Jesus is God/Trinity thing - I posted under "real jesus" thread and would be happy to continue that disucssion.

[Tr2]

This is precisely the reason that you have virtually no or at least very little credibility with any significant thinkers here

This coming from you.... means little. An snob like you is the last person I want to come into agreement with. When I start saying things that you do like, that is proof that I need to re-evaluate my views.

There are many mormons, athiests, and agnostics on this board that I do think well of, we just disagree in our views of religion. Those people do not include you. I do not think highly of you at all because I have no reason to. You have held yourself above everybody else since the first day you got here, and nothing has changed. I don't understand what you get out of acting like you are better than anyone else. i can only think that your life must be pretty sorry that you have to come onto an internet discussion board and act like the know-it-all pillar of self righteousness that you do.

So I don't have credibility in your eyes, why should I care?

[Guest Starsky]

i can only think that your life must be pretty sorry that you have to come onto an internet discussion board and act like the know-it-all pillar of self righteousness that you do.

Well, I have never seen Snow in this light. I think he does know a lot....and he keeps our boards light hearted for the most part....

I am no one to talk about getting along....but maybe it is time....to not post to each other...

[Stephen]

Originally posted by Snow+Mar 24 2004, 12:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Mar 24 2004, 12:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Stephen@Mar 24 2004, 10:02 AM

Who Jesus Christ is happens to be his spirit that dwells within him.........even when he was crucified on the cross of Calvary .......Jesus Christ still lived on........his spirit was clothed with a body of flesh and bones and when he was killed his spirit left his body and when he was resurrected his spirit re-united with his physical. The spirit of Jesus Christ permeates all things. The Bible even makes reference to the fact that the spirit of Christ lights every man that comes into the world. I believe that what we commonly refer to as a conscience is actually Jesus Christ's spirit lighting every person that comes into the world that they may know good from evil.

Okay Stephen,

Work through this with me. I'm not mocking, I just don't undertand the thinking yet.

Christ was resurrected with a physical body. Christ is immutable and has his body still. At least there is no known Biblical reference that suggests otherwise. Christ has a spirit that not only dwells in the physical location of his body but also physically dwells everywhere throughout the entire universe.

Is that correct?

That is correct.

[Stephen]

Originally posted by Snow+Mar 24 2004, 12:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Mar 24 2004, 12:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Stephen@Mar 24 2004, 11:09 AM

No. One cannot remain in the office of a Pastor or Bishop if that person is homosexual. Also, as a side note.....women should never hold the office of a Pastor or Bishop because one of the qualifications of that office according to the Bible is: that person needs to be the husband of one wife and rule his household well. A Pastor or Bishop also needs to be above reproach.

A homosexual man- God has turned over to a reprobate mind.....because he has turned away from God doing that which is a unnatural affection.....men with men doing that which is unseemly.

So he is another thing I can't quite get my tiny mind around...

Correct me if I am mistaken but you (you're still Mormon right) align yourself religiously with the Evangelical perspective. Right? Essentially ya'll believe that the church of God consist of all denominations that accept certain doctrines and principles and that all Christians who accept Christ as their Savior are saved and belong to the body of Christ or his church. Is that essentially correct?

If so, how do you reconcile that your own church or parts of your own church (other saved Christians) think that homosexuality is perfectly alright and ordain homosexuals to be bishops or priests or whatever?

I don't think all Christians that claim to be Born Again or Saved really are. Jesus Christ said......"Ye shall know them by their fruits."

Also......"faith without works is dead".......if you are really Born Again and have had your heart changed toward God instead of the things of this world then you will do good deeds and show signs of a true believer.........good works is a by-product of a living faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. This is not to say that you can't make mistakes once you are Born Again......after all we all sin and fall short of the glory of God......however, when we do stray from God and have those periods of time when we become back-slidden.....we need to confess our sins to the Lord Jesus Christ in true penitence in order to mend our relationship with God. You can still be Born Again and not have a close walk with God and unfortunately there are alot of Born Again Christians in that spiritual condition.

The apostle Paul is a great biblical example of somebody who was a Born Again Christian. When he said: "I die daily".....I think he was referring to the fleshly worldly Paul.......he had to continually re-submit himself to God and fight against the sin-nature Paul.........he gave himself over to God as a living sacrifice and in return.......God made it possible for him to overcome the sinful side of himself.

[Faerie]

well put stephen :)

[Guest Starsky]

Yes...well put Stephen.

[srm]

however, when we do stray from God and have those periods of time when we become back-slidden.....we need to confess our sins to the Lord Jesus Christ in true penitence in order to mend our relationship with God.

If one were to die in the 'back-slidden' state. do they go to heaven or hell?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by srm@Mar 25 2004, 08:26 PM

however, when we do stray from God and have those periods of time when we become back-slidden.....we need to confess our sins to the Lord Jesus Christ in true penitence in order to mend our relationship with God.

If one were to die in the 'back-slidden' state. do they go to heaven or hell?

The answer to that is found in 1 John 3...the whole chapter...but especially pay attention to the supporting verses of this one verse..

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

[Stephen]

Originally posted by srm@Mar 25 2004, 08:26 PM

however, when we do stray from God and have those periods of time when we become back-slidden.....we need to confess our sins to the Lord Jesus Christ in true penitence in order to mend our relationship with God.

If one were to die in the 'back-slidden' state. do they go to heaven or hell?

One would still go to heaven even in a back slidden condition.

Your works determine your place in heaven........not whether you get there.

As the bible declares all sin and fall short of the glory of God. None are righteous. No not one.

Paul said: as one star differeth from another star in glory so also is the resurrection of the dead. As Paul also declared by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost: "By grace are ye saved through faith, not of works lest any man should boast; it is the gift of God."

[srm]

Originally posted by Stephen+Mar 25 2004, 08:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Stephen @ Mar 25 2004, 08:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--srm@Mar 25 2004, 08:26 PM

however, when we do stray from God and have those periods of time when we become back-slidden.....we need to confess our sins to the Lord Jesus Christ in true penitence in order to mend our relationship with God.

If one were to die in the 'back-slidden' state. do they go to heaven or hell?

One would still go to heaven even in a back slidden condition.

Your works determine your place in heaven........not whether you get there.

As the bible declares all sin and fall short of the glory of God. None are righteous. No not one.

Paul said: as one star differeth from another star in glory so also is the resurrection of the dead.

so if you're not 'back-slidden' when you die, you get a better place in heaven?

[Stephen]

Originally posted by srm+Mar 25 2004, 08:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (srm @ Mar 25 2004, 08:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Stephen@Mar 25 2004, 08:37 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--srm@Mar 25 2004, 08:26 PM

however, when we do stray from God and have those periods of time when we become back-slidden.....we need to confess our sins to the Lord Jesus Christ in true penitence in order to mend our relationship with God.

If one were to die in the 'back-slidden' state. do they go to heaven or hell?

One would still go to heaven even in a back slidden condition.

Your works determine your place in heaven........not whether you get there.

As the bible declares all sin and fall short of the glory of God. None are righteous. No not one.

Paul said: as one star differeth from another star in glory so also is the resurrection of the dead.

so if you're not 'back-slidden' when you die, you get a better place in heaven?

That is what I believe.

It was Jesus Christ that said: "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven"(Matthew 5:19).

Notice he did not say if you break one of the least of these commandments, and shall teach men so, that you will be banished in hell forever!

Jesus Christ said: they would be least in the kingdom of heaven. They would be least, but still be in heaven.

The other end of it is that if you do the commandments and teach others to do so the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[Guest Starsky]

I really think it is what is in your heart at the time of death....

If your heart is Christ, even if you have failed to be totally righteous, filled with Love...maybe you haven't thought to pray every morning and night, or you have sworn in a moment of passion....and then you die...if you are heading towards Christ....committed to Him....though weak...you will receive the greatest reward possible for your level of commitment.

Weakness should not be mistaken for sin...btw.

[serapha]

Originally posted by Stephen@Mar 24 2004, 12:09 PM

No. One cannot remain in the office of a Pastor or Bishop if that person is homosexual. Also, as a side note.....women should never hold the office of a Pastor or Bishop because one of the qualifications of that office according to the Bible is: that person needs to be the husband of one wife and rule his household well. A Pastor or Bishop also needs to be above reproach.

A homosexual man- God has turned over to a reprobate mind.....because he has turned away from God doing that which is a unnatural affection.....men with men doing that which is unseemly.

Good Stephen, I am glad to here that response. That is one thing that at least you and I can agree on. Unfortunately, those over at CF, think otherwise, and say that there isn't any proof that the Lord said homosexuality is wrong. So if one does transcend(bad word to use)/bypass laws in the Bible to fullfill a position he is not qualified, what of those who not only associate, but support that ministry? Are they TRUE believers in God and can any good come from that influence. I personally cannot believe such a thing. To me, this is going to bring POLITICS into religion.

Hi there!

The Lord didn't have to say that homosexuality was wrong. Judaism, in the first century taught that homosexuality was wrong, and Jesus was a practicing Jew, keeping the law to the letter... He never changed the laws pertaining to homosexuality, did he?

~serapha~

[Snow]

Originally posted by serapha@Mar 25 2004, 08:57 PM

The Lord didn't have to say that homosexuality was wrong. Judaism, in the first century taught that homosexuality was wrong, and Jesus was a practicing Jew, keeping the law to the letter... He never changed the laws pertaining to homosexuality, did he?

~serapha~

That's your argument?

If on a woman's wedding night, the sheets were not bloody, the the Jews ordered the woman to be brought out of the house so that the men in the city could hit her with rocks until they killed her. That's barbaric and immoral. In fact it is evil.

On a lighter note, the Jews also forbade you to plant wheat and barely in the same field.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Tr2@Mar 25 2004, 01:47 PM

So I don't have credibility in your eyes, why should I care?

To tell you the truth, I can't figure it out either. Envy I guess.

[Cal]

Stephan--earlier you said : "he was tempted, yet could not have sinned(luke 4:2; james 1:13)."

If Jesus could NOT have sinned, then why did the Devil bother trying to tempt him?

Second, you sure seem convinced of a lot of things that are really only heresay. 1) no one even knows who wrote the gospels and they were written at least 50 years after Jesus' death, so it certainly wasn't anyone who was an eyewitness to anything in there 2) the only guy that we can say with any confidence knew Jesus AND also wrote about him, was Paul; and Paul only saw Jesus in a vision (what ever that was supposed to mean--and there are contradictory versions of that), and on top of that, Paul wrote as though he were totally unfamiliar with ANTHING about the circumstances around Jesus' actual life or experiences, other than that he died, and believed by his followers, to have been resurrected.

So, would you tell me again why you are so certain you know so much about Jesus.

[porterrockwell]

Originally posted by Stephen@Mar 25 2004, 09:37 PM

Your works determine your place in heaven........not whether you get there.

And what is sad and utterly pathetic, is that ALL mainstreamers I know think we don't believe this.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by porterrockwell+Mar 26 2004, 08:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (porterrockwell @ Mar 26 2004, 08:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Stephen@Mar 25 2004, 09:37 PM

Your works determine your place in heaven........not whether you get there.

And what is sad and utterly pathetic, is that ALL mainstreamers I know think we don't believe this.

Actually I thought they thought we believed it tooo much...

You know how they are always bashing us because we think we earn our heaven through our works?