A Shout Out To Emma Smith And The Many Great Women Of The Church

[wiley]

I have been reading the historical threads here on this site. I have been running various searches, but have been unable to find any threads that honor the women of our history. They may be there, but couldn't find them. In any case, it is good to do it again.

I have been studying up on church history as of late and have gained a great impression of the many struggles women endured. We talk a lot of all the great things the men have done, and yes, it was hard. But I dare say that the women struggled so much the more. Emma Smith (the poster) indicated that Emma Smith (the wife) was a great hero. I have to admit that she is also a hero of mine, and it always bothers me when people of the church talk about her as if she just couldn't make it, since her and BY didn't quite get along. I hope Emma Smith (the poster) will share why Emma Smith (the wife) was such a hero. I would love to hear.

This thread also includes the many other great women....

Helen Mar Whitney is another hero of mine.

This thread also and ABSOLUTELY includes the women who really struggled with how they were asked to live their lives, even if they ultimately left the church. They were all so very brave.

I would like to know everyone's thoughts on these women. If you are unaware of their strength, courage, and endurance, then now is a good time to learn.

This is my first thread here. Nice to meet you guys. Hope to stick around.

[Blessed]

Welcome wiley!! I, too, am a great admirer of Emma Smith. She was after all called to be an "elect lady" and I often wonder what that title actually means. But believe it to be as some thing of a role model for sure. :-)

[CrimsonKairos]

It's worth remembering the the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was also the God of Sarah, Rebekah and Rachel.

Though the details are confusing as presented at face value, the story of Rebekah ensuring that Jacob and not Esau got the blessing of the firstborn shows that apparently she was more in tune with the Lord's will than her husband.

[Maureen]

I admire Emma Hale Smith also; she was a very intelligent and determined woman. She fought for her family and her beliefs. I would have to say it was the book Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith that changed my opinions and perception of the LDS church and JS.

Another LDS woman to admire is Zina Huntington Jacobs. She started at the beginning of the movement, endured plural marriage with a willing spirit, made difficult decisions about husbands, and was a leader in the relief society. Her descendants are responsible for bringing the Mormon religion to Alberta, Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zina_Diantha_...obs_Smith_Young

M.

[Guest mamacat]

i recently watched the movie One Night with the King, about queen Esther....Hadassah was her jewish name...her spirit was amazing. i loved the story.

[CrimsonKairos]

Hadassah refers to "myrtle" in Hebrew.

Esther means "star" in Persian.

[Dr T]

Welcome wiley. Good to have you here. :)

[a-train]

QUESTION:

Who anointed her ox with consecrated oil and blessed it during movements to the west?

I read the account in Church History once, (about 12 years ago) but cannot seem to find it again. There is definitely an account in the Church History volumes of a sister who called upon the brethren to give a priesthood blessing to her animal. They refused. She asked that she be provided with consecrated oil and after some persuading it was granted. The account went on to say that she anointed and blessed the beast by the laying on of hands herself and it regained strength and continued the journey. Anyone know this?

Now I am on a mission. I'll try to find it.

-a-train

[Guest Emma Hale Smith]

QUESTION:

Who anointed her ox with consecrated oil and blessed it during movements to the west?

-a-train

Hi a-train!

I believe you're thinking of Mary Fielding Smith, wife of the slain Hyrum Smith.

If I remember correctly everyone told her her ox was not going to make it. So she got some consecrated oil from her wagon and asked her brother, Joseph Fielding Smith, to bless it. Immediately it got up and make the horrendous journey to Salt Lake.

I'll look and see if I can find anything with more detail. But I'm pretty sure that's how the story goes.

Emma

I have been reading the historical threads here on this site. I have been running various searches, but have been unable to find any threads that honor the women of our history. They may be there, but couldn't find them. In any case, it is good to do it again.

I have been studying up on church history as of late and have gained a great impression of the many struggles women endured. We talk a lot of all the great things the men have done, and yes, it was hard. But I dare say that the women struggled so much the more. Emma Smith (the poster) indicated that Emma Smith (the wife) was a great hero. I have to admit that she is also a hero of mine, and it always bothers me when people of the church talk about her as if she just couldn't make it, since her and BY didn't quite get along. I hope Emma Smith (the poster) will share why Emma Smith (the wife) was such a hero. I would love to hear.

Hi Wiley!

I am so happy you started this thread. I'm getting together my notes, so I can put together something enough for a post yet informative enough for a good start for a discussion.

I absolutely adore Emma. The church has really come around to acknowledging her place in its history, but IMO still more needs to be done. Brigham Young's animosity towards her unfortunately precluded so many members from understanding what a phenomenal human being she was, and how absolutely commited she was to Joseph and the establishment of the church. In my opion, she was as pivotal to the church as Joseph was; thus, the "elect lady."

I'll have something together soon.

"Emma"

[StrawberryFields]

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QUESTION:

Who anointed her ox with consecrated oil and blessed it during movements to the west?

-a-train

Hi a-train!

I believe you're thinking of Mary Fielding Smith, wife of the slain Hyrum Smith.

If I remember correctly everyone told her her ox was not going to make it. So she got some consecrated oil from her wagon and asked her brother, Joseph Fielding Smith, to bless it. Immediately it got up and make the horrendous journey to Salt Lake.

I'll look and see if I can find anything with more detail. But I'm pretty sure that's how the story goes.

Emma

So MFS didn't actually even pray/bless the ox?

[sixpacktr]

I too respect and admire Emma. I can't imagine what life was like for her. Sometimes I think it was easier for Joseph because, although he was the one on trial, he was the one being dragged out in the middle of the night, she had to worry and try and protect her family. It is sometimes easier to be in the middle of the fray and know that you are okay, but for others looking on (like Emma to Joseph) it can be harder.

That being said, I'm glad that HF is judging her instead of the world. I believe she was an elect lady. I don't think her testimony of Joseph and his calling ever wavered. But she, thru her example, "exiled" the children of Joseph and kept them out of the church to form another (the RLDS, Blessed's church). She (Blessed) may disagree with me on that (in fact, I'm counting on it! ), but we do believe in "enduring to the end". And it seems that Emma didn't. But I'm not judging, just thinking aloud.

I love Emma. I admire her strength. Joseph himself said he'd go to hell and back to be sure that Emma was with him in the eternities. I'll take his word for it. I don't think I could have withstood her trials...

[Blessed]

That being said, I'm glad that HF is judging her instead of the world. I believe she was an elect lady. I don't think her testimony of Joseph and his calling ever wavered. But she, thru her example, "exiled" the children of Joseph and kept them out of the church to form another (the RLDS, Blessed's church). She (Blessed) may disagree with me on that (in fact, I'm counting on it! ), but we do believe in "enduring to the end". And it seems that Emma didn't. But I'm not judging, just thinking aloud.

I wouldn't say she "exiled" her children. I think she kept true to the orignial teachings of Jospeh Smith inspired by God and didn't get caught up in the deluge of controversy that followed JS for his shortcomings and later became regarded as "doctrine"... this is where we differ, sixpack.

Question you should be asking yourself is that if she never waivered in her beliefs... then why did she not go West? If it was just because of a mere personal conflict with another individual no matter who he was called to be... wouldn't she have followed him? Or did she stay because she knew that the original teachings must be made secure and to pass on all that JS lived and died for continue.

We shall never fully know...

[sixpacktr]

Hey Blessed,

Yeah, we aren't going to agree on this one at all!

But if I were to make a supposition, I think that with the death of Joseph, she was done. The only leader the church had known up to then was Joseph, and Emma had been at his side. Without him, I think she was incomplete.

I don't know of any animus btw Brigham Young and her--perhaps there was. Mother Smith didn't go either, I think mainly because of health issues. But I think that Emma had just had enough, her life had been difficult at best with Joseph, and she couldn't picture the church or herself without him.

IF I REMEMBER RIGHT (and that happens less and less every day, according to SWMBO and my kids :) ), BY reached out to her, but she didn't want to go West. But that may have been something that someone told someone who heard it from their 3rd cousin...

Have you heard anything like that?

[Blessed]

What I heard is that BY "ordered" her to go and she refused. I will have to look up RLDS church history and see what it says. It may take a few days because I am leaving to go camping for the next few days. This spin will have to remain in the wash cycle till I get back... LOL

[Guest mamacat]

excellent convo...can't wait to hear more.

have a great camping trip Blessed.

love from mamcat

[sixpacktr]

Camping in Alaska. How cool is that! My wife and I worked in Alaska for 2-3 months right after we were married (Pelican, Alaska, at a cold storage). Beautiful country.

Just watch out for the grizzlies.

Mamacat,

I just gotta say this. I just noticed that your avatar is a pair of rose colored glasses. Until this very instant I thought it was something else...(I've been to the mall way too much, apparently!)

[Maureen]

...In my opion, she was as pivotal to the church as Joseph was; thus, the "elect lady."

I believe she was very pivotal to JS himself. She was a necessary support that he would have been lost without. I believe JS would have had a more difficult time if Emma had died, leaving him.

M.

[Maureen]

...I don't think her testimony of Joseph and his calling ever wavered. But she, thru her example, "exiled" the children of Joseph and kept them out of the church to form another (the RLDS, Blessed's church).

From an LDS perspective, it's easy to see it that way, but from an RLDS perspective, it's the other way around. Emma believed that the Brighamite church was not her husband's church, that through plural marriage the church lost it's way. She believed she had made the correct decision and I believe she did also. She did not form the RLDS church, she joined it; the RLDS church was formed by former LDS members years before. And her children were never exiled. Her sons traveled as missionaries to Utah a few times, they had family members there (cousins) that they were on friendly terms with. Even BY welcomed them in his own way and had his sights set on David to be a leader, maybe even the leader of his church.

M.

[Guest mamacat]

Mamacat,

I just gotta say this. I just noticed that your avatar is a pair of rose colored glasses. Until this very instant I thought it was something else...(I've been to the mall way too much, apparently!)

yes, they're quite pretty aren't they? :) notice, i'm not wearing them.....

what did you think they were??

(i really should go to the mall more often.....i love the cheesecake factory )

[sixpacktr]

<div class='quotemain'>

Mamacat,

I just gotta say this. I just noticed that your avatar is a pair of rose colored glasses. Until this very instant I thought it was something else...(I've been to the mall way too much, apparently!)

yes, they're quite pretty aren't they? :) notice, i'm not wearing them.....

what did you think they were??

(i really should go to the mall more often.....i love the cheesecake factory )

When I said "been to the mall too much" I was referring mainly to that bastion of immodesty Victoria's Secret. I don't go in there! But you can see that from 500 yards away...And if you're a man

[sixpacktr]

<div class='quotemain'>

...I don't think her testimony of Joseph and his calling ever wavered. But she, thru her example, "exiled" the children of Joseph and kept them out of the church to form another (the RLDS, Blessed's church).

From an LDS perspective, it's easy to see it that way, but from an RLDS perspective, it's the other way around. Emma believed that the Brighamite church was not her husband's church, that through plural marriage the church lost it's way. She believed she had made the correct decision and I believe she did also. She did not form the RLDS church, she joined it; the RLDS church was formed by former LDS members years before. And her children were never exiled. Her sons traveled as missionaries to Utah a few times, they had family members there (cousins) that they were on friendly terms with. Even BY welcomed them in his own way and had his sights set on David to be a leader, maybe even the leader of his church.

M.

Maureen, yeah, that is why I stated to Blessed earlier that we would never agree. To agree means one of us has "changed sides."

While it is true that former members formed the RLDS faith, they were mainly ex-Strangites (if I remember correctly). Emma joined them, but only if Joseph III would be the head. I was impressed that he turned them down for 4 years. He must have been reading his fathers Articles of Faith, something about being called of God. :)

When I said "exiled" what I meant was that she kept them from the main body of the church, and led them down other paths. They were always welcome to join the Church, visit Utah, visit with BY, etc. That is why I question the charge of animus btw Emma and BY. I know that there was some legal wranglings due to property (what was the church's and what was Joseph's) upon his martyrdom.

FYI. I just want to clarify your last statement. It was never Brigham's church...It's the Lord's church. BY was his prophet at that time.

Blessed:

Have you ever had a chance to visit Independence, or Nauvoo, etc.? We live in WNY, and will be going to Palmyra this weekend (before all the crowds come for the summer). We've been lucky: I've moved around enough that I have visited all the church sites in Missouri, Illinois, Ohio, New York, Iowa, Nebraska, as well as others. I was wondering if you've had that opportunity...

[a-train]

I buy my wife something from Victoria's Secret as often as I can. She loves that stuff and so do I.

-a-train

[Guest mamacat]

i practice attachment parenting, which includes extended nursing. one day my babe and i and his father were in a shopping center and my son, 3 at the time, stopped in awe and fascination at the victoria's secret window, begging to go in. his dad, with a wry smile, said to him, 'no David, that's not a nummie buffet...'

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Mamacat,

I just gotta say this. I just noticed that your avatar is a pair of rose colored glasses. Until this very instant I thought it was something else...(I've been to the mall way too much, apparently!)

yes, they're quite pretty aren't they? :) notice, i'm not wearing them.....

what did you think they were??

(i really should go to the mall more often.....i love the cheesecake factory )

When I said "been to the mall too much" I was referring mainly to that bastion of immodesty Victoria's Secret. I don't go in there! But you can see that from 500 yards away...And if you're a man

should i change my avatar?

[wiley]

sixpacktr: I don't know of any animus btw Brigham Young and her--perhaps there was.

This is just one of BY's famous sayings, this one speaking of Emma.

"She was a wonderful woman, and would be more so if she'd start acting like a saint, then acting like a devil"

Oh yeah, there definitely was as divide between Emma and BY. And I believe that among other things, polygamy was at the very heart of the divide. That said, BY also had the greatest respects for Emma I believe. It is just BY's personality that when ever he decided to do something, he was fully committed. And sometimes, (well, a lot times) that meant he could be critical of others for not being fully committed, whatever the issue; and he was one who liked to use seemingly harsh words. The issue of polygamy is a perfect example that showed BY's character. He struggled with polygamy more than most, or at least, as it is recorded. But once committed, he never looked back.

That is why I wouldn't be surprised if Blessed was right also when (she?) said:

What I heard is that BY "ordered" her to go and she refused. I will have to look up RLDS church history and see what it says. It may take a few days because I am leaving to go camping for the next few days. This spin will have to remain in the wash cycle till I get back... LOL

Maureen: I believe she was very pivotal to JS himself. She was a necessary support that he would have been lost without. I believe JS would have had a more difficult time if Emma had died, leaving him.

I absolutely agree here. Though Joseph did have a strong support system, his brother Hyrum, mother Lucy, not to mention the rest of his family, I don't know how much help they would have been if it weren't for Emma.

sixpacktr: While it is true that former members formed the RLDS faith, they were mainly ex-Strangites (if I remember correctly). Emma joined them, but only if Joseph III would be the head. I was impressed that he turned them down for 4 years. He must have been reading his fathers Articles of Faith, something about being called of God. smile.gif

When I said "exiled" what I meant was that she kept them from the main body of the church, and led them down other paths. They were always welcome to join the Church, visit Utah, visit with BY, etc.

This may just be my opinion and many may not agree with me, but I think the RLDS church is a wonderful organization and from an LDS perspective, were a necessity to the survival of the LDS church. This is just speculation on my part, but it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't planned this way by the Father. For me, one of the biggest contributions that the RLDS church accomplished was being able to hold onto important historical and significant property. Something I'm not sure the LDS church would have been able to do. The fact that they are still in "mormon" hands (I am encompassing all LDS groups here, if that is OK) is a great benefit to both groups.

I look forward to Emma's posts. I hope to learn a lot. I do believe that Emma Smith is long overdue for recognition by some, if not many, of the saints.

I have found these quotes that I find interesting. The first is from mother Lucy. The second is from Emily Partridge Young. I wouldn't at all be surprised if her attitude was shared among the many women who were able to endure polygamy.

Still devoted to her mother-in-law, Emma cared for her until Lucy died in 1856. The Prophet's mother had always admired Emma. "I have never seen a woman in my life, who would endure every species of fatigue and hardship, from month to month, and from year to year," she wrote, "with that unflinching courage, zeal, and patience, which she has ever done" (Smith, pp. 190-91).

"I know it was hard for Emma, and any woman to enter plural marriage in those days," wrote Emily Partridge Young, a plural wife, "and I do not know as anybody would have done any better than Emma did under the circumstances" (Woman's Exponent 12 [Apr. 1, 1884]:165).

[Blessed]

Sixpack, I practically grew up in Independence as that is where my father grew up and where my grandmother lived. My father was also very active in particpation with World Conferences at HQ's. I, too, have been a participant at World Conference.

As a child we toured all the historical sites: Nauvoo, Kirtland, Catharage, etc.

I even married RLDS. We met at our church college during a reunion at Graceland college in Lamoni, Iowa.

When we moved from Alaska to Arkansas we went through SLC and toured that area and was quite impressed with what we saw.

I am of the opinion we are too much alike in all of aspects to be swatting at gnats. :-)