Visiting hours in Heaven

[applepansy]

I saw this on a friends FB page this morning.

My first impression was to reply "There is!" I've had experiences in the temple which have been "visiting heaven". Something stopped me. I'm not certain if its a lack of boldness in proclaiming the truth of the gospel or something else. Maybe it was because I don't want to discuss a sacred experience. I don't know.

Most of my missionary opportunities are online. But, its difficult for me to discuss deeply spiritual things online.

How do you determine when to share your testimony about the gospel, the temple, etc. online.?

[pam]

Whenever I see an opportunity.

This happened just a couple of days ago. I found out from a long time friend that her father in law was LDS. Inactive for many years because his wife just threw a fit about him having anything to do with Mormons. But in his last years alive he went back to activity.

She told me that her father in law always had a wish that he and his wife could have been sealed in the temple but she would have nothing to do with the church.

Great opportunity to explain that there was a way. She is not LDS, but shows an interest. She wants to follow all of my LDS facebook pages. So we had a great discussion between us regarding temple work and proxy.

Little opportunities come our way all of the time. Do we have the courage to seize the moment and just go for it?

Edited February 6, 2014 by pam

[Traveler]

I saw this on a friends FB page this morning.

My first impression was to reply "There is!" I've had experiences in the temple which have been "visiting heaven". Something stopped me. I'm not certain if its a lack of boldness in proclaiming the truth of the gospel or something else. Maybe it was because I don't want to discuss a sacred experience. I don't know.

Most of my missionary opportunities are online. But, its difficult for me to discuss deeply spiritual things online.

How do you determine when to share your testimony about the gospel, the temple, etc. online.?

There is but it is not called visiting hours - it is called a visiting day or the day of "rest". The reference to rest means the exact same as the reference to entering "The L-rd's Rest". See Hebrews chapter 4.

The Traveler

[pam]

I don't think this thread is about a discussion regarding visiting hours though. It's about whether or not you share the gospel and when.

[Lakumi]

Anytime I discuss religion it seems to come off more like I am telling them facts about something, not really emotionally charged.

Though since all but one of my friends are athiests, trying to say religious things to them that don't come off as sounding like facts is probably a bad idea.

[Quin]

I suspect you stayed your hand wisely.

Clearly someone is grieving.

Even being LDS doesn't mean that I don't lash out at people in grief.

Nor is my mind the most open when I'm in pain.

Beware the wounded animal.

No matter how well intentioned, other people's religions don't allow me to hold someone I've lost/bring them back when all I want is to see them sleep, have a rousing argument, complain about Cheetos staining the carpet, laugh, hold hands, or any of the things I wish I could do for them in that moment.

I'm sure most of us have had that experience.

When other peoples attempts to lessen our pain, merely increase it.

So, for my part, you done good Lady.

Sometimes silence is the best gift.

And sometimes not pushing is the most proselytizing action out there.

KWIM?

I think you listened to your heart / followed the spirit.

Or instead of backing off, you would have continued with your first impression.

Q

[applepansy]

Thank you Quin.

I haven't had a problem in the past talking about my religion with non-member friends online. Most often the discussions come about because they have questions. Those who know me well know I won't be offended if they ask... so they are good about it. Some who ask, then apologize for asking.

I hope this time I was the spirit that restrained me. Yes the person who posted that picture is grieving. I understand her grief. I lost a son 14 years ago (age 21 when he died). I know the pain she feels. But... you're right. Today was probably not the day to initiate the conversation.

[Traveler]

Anytime I discuss religion it seems to come off more like I am telling them facts about something, not really emotionally charged.

Though since all but one of my friends are athiests, trying to say religious things to them that don't come off as sounding like facts is probably a bad idea.

I have been much more successful expressing my LDS religious ideas to atheists than I have religious individuals of other faiths. In general I find many scientists that think them self atheists because they have not encountered a religion like LDS that is rhetorically logical, empirically based (Moroni 10:4-5) and willing to discover truth from any source.

The Traveler

[andypg]

Personally, this is something that is difficult for me. Unfortunately, I am not completely "out" to my family. Since it would literally break a few family members that I am no longer a Catholic, only a couple family members know, though all my friends know, or at least open about it so that if I talked with them they would know.

Because of this, I walk a thin line on social media (my family can't find out or else it will get back to my grandmother). I don't come out and put statuses that I am a Mormon, though I often share uplifting Mormon Messages on Facebook or quotes from the first presidency or past prophets. When I quote past prophets, I use the title "Prophet" instead of "President"

One of my most liked statuses was a quote from the Prophet George Albert Smith (I even called him "the Prophet"). So many people liked it, even those that didn't know I was LDS.

THOUGH, in order to let my LDS-ness out in all its glory, I keep up a blog. Sadly, I can't post links of my posts on Facebook, so no one reads it, but I like to think of it as my contribution to sharing the faith I love.

[Lakumi]

I have been much more successful expressing my LDS religious ideas to atheists than I have religious individuals of other faiths. In general I find many scientists that think them self atheists because they have not encountered a religion like LDS that is rhetorically logical, empirically based (Moroni 10:4-5) and willing to discover truth from any source.

The Traveler

I would assume that yes, it is easier for someone who's not picked a religion to get one then one who already has one

[Traveler]

I would assume that yes, it is easier for someone who's not picked a religion to get one then one who already has one

It is much more than what you are thinking or rather what is showing in your response. Basically to be converted one has to have a change of mind and heart. Not always but in general I find atheists in the scientific community more open to changing their mind and heart. I would say that 90% of the atheists or agnostics I encounter were raised in a devoutly active religious family but found in their personal quest for truth that the religious traditions they were raised with are empirically disconnected and rhetorically conflicted.

With few exceptions - most religious individual seem to think that it is by faith they must ignore empirical realities and rhetorical logic - especially if it seems to contradict some interpretive creed (written or unwritten) of their declared faith. Which will cause them to think it a necessary demonstration of faith to stand as it were in the light of the sun at noon day sun and declare it night.

I find the scientific community to be more open and honest. Admitting the possibilities of man in eternity but at times also expressing a desire to live themselves with some emphasis within the shadows; at lest for the time being.

The Traveler

[Lakumi]

Yes, while I was baptized my home wasn't religious at all (my parents were very much under the "find your own path" only reason I went threw the catholic stuff was for my grandparents- well more truthfully, money)

So far I don't know if I have found the thing that has clicked, found some that I like, have things about them I like, but at what point do you say "this one is good enough"

[Traveler]

Yes, while I was baptized my home wasn't religious at all (my parents were very much under the "find your own path" only reason I went threw the catholic stuff was for my grandparents- well more truthfully, money)

So far I don't know if I have found the thing that has clicked, found some that I like, have things about them I like, but at what point do you say "this one is good enough"

Good enough? For me it is always a matter of finding something better. Better is not just a logical fit into some pigeon hole but tested or proven to be the best allocation of known modeled parameters. This then leaves two means of improvement. One is the best tested and proven possibility and the second is the means to better or more complete testing parameter.

In short it is the consideration of what best fits what is being looked for and is it possible that there something more worthwhile to look for.

And so I would ask you Lakumi, what is the very best from all that you currently understand to be true - that you think you are looking for?

The Traveler

[Lakumi]

Good enough? For me it is always a matter of finding something better. Better is not just a logical fit into some pigeon hole but tested or proven to be the best allocation of known modeled parameters. This then leaves two means of improvement. One is the best tested and proven possibility and the second is the means to better or more complete testing parameter.

In short it is the consideration of what best fits what is being looked for and is it possible that there something more worthwhile to look for.

And so I would ask you Lakumi, what is the very best from all that you currently understand to be true - that you think you are looking for?

The Traveler

I always look, because there could be the thing that clicks and I wouldn't have known lest I went looking.

I feel, saying that, that I never say something I believe to be true, because in the end, I am never sure of that.

[Traveler]

I always look, because there could be the thing that clicks and I wouldn't have known lest I went looking.

I feel, saying that, that I never say something I believe to be true, because in the end, I am never sure of that.

When I was a kid we use to play marbles. There was a couple of sayings back then, when we played the game. Some would play without serious intent - and obviously they were not very good at playing - sometime not even good at being a person of trust, excitement or much else - so it was said that they played just for fun. But for those that took the game seriously; you had to offer marbles to play and the winner got to "keep" the marbles. There were two saying that came from playing seriously.

Saying #1. when someone was serious they were "Playing for Keeps".

Saying #2. when it got down to the most important part of the game it was said, "This is for all the marbles".

No one ever succeeded at marbles until they were willing to "Play for Keeps" and no one was considered worthy of winning until they had been under the pressure to perform at that moment that was "for all the marbles".

The great paradox is that just playing for fun really is not all that fun - especially when compared to playing for keeps and for all the marbles. There is much more fun in winning when there is stake in the game. And there is much more in the lesson learned when loosing when there is something of value on the line.

I challenge you - to get off the side line and get into the game of truth for keeps and all the marbles.

The Traveler

[Lakumi]

When I was a kid we use to play marbles. There was a couple of sayings back then, when we played the game. Some would play without serious intent - and obviously they were not very good at playing - sometime not even good at being a person of trust, excitement or much else - so it was said that they played just for fun. But for those that took the game seriously; you had to offer marbles to play and the winner got to "keep" the marbles. There were two saying that came from playing seriously.

Saying #1. when someone was serious they were "Playing for Keeps".

Saying #2. when it got down to the most important part of the game it was said, "This is for all the marbles".

No one ever succeeded at marbles until they were willing to "Play for Keeps" and no one was considered worthy of winning until they had been under the pressure to perform at that moment that was "for all the marbles".

The great paradox is that just playing for fun really is not all that fun - especially when compared to playing for keeps and for all the marbles. There is much more fun in winning when there is stake in the game. And there is much more in the lesson learned when loosing when there is something of value on the line.

I challenge you - to get off the side line and get into the game of truth for keeps and all the marbles.

The Traveler

We called that funsies and keepsies...

there were fights...

and what, do you think, I should do for the keepsies game of truth

[Roseslipper]

Anytime I discuss religion it seems to come off more like I am telling them facts about something, not really emotionally charged.

Though since all but one of my friends are athiests, trying to say religious things to them that don't come off as sounding like facts is probably a bad idea.

Do the best you can!!!!

It's never a waste!!!

[Lakumi]

Do the best you can!!!!

It's never a waste!!!

I'm not really trying to convert anyone, more give them an insight into what the heck I am talking about when I use the words Konite and Siv Day (or even real things like Mormon or Krishna)

people are often woefully uneducated