2 Nephi 2:15

[Vort]

2 Nephi 2:15

And to bring about his eternal purposes in the end of man, after he had created our first parents, and the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and in fine, all things which are created, it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life;

the one being sweet and the other bitter.

Which was which?

Genesis 3:6 (cf Moses 4:12)

And when the woman saw that

the [forbidden] tree was good for food

, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

So if the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was sweet, that would make the fruit of the tree of life bitter. That doesn't seem right. But...

1 Nephi 8:11

And it came to pass that I did go forth and partake of the fruit thereof; and

I beheld that it was most sweet, above all that I ever before tasted

. Yea, and I beheld that the fruit thereof was white, to exceed all the whiteness that I had ever seen.

So the sweet fruit was from the tree of (eternal) life, which would make the forbidden fruit the bitter.

What do you make of this? There is important symbolism involved here, and I suspect it's not merely superficial.

[Just_A_Guy]

Then again, in Gethsemane Jesus speaks of drinking of a cup whose contents He describes as "bitter" . . .

[Anddenex]

@JAG -- Bitter for the Lord, sweet for us.

@Vort -- it would appear that the forbidden fruit would be the sweet fruit and the tree of life being the bitter, and if Adam and Eve partook of the tree of life after partaking of the forbidden fruit...the result of have been bitter...never to enter into the presence of God living forever in their sins.

Appears, I need to read the scriptures a little more closely. I had always assumed the tree of life was the sweet, but from the connection and grammar it appears the forbidden fruit is actually the sweet.

[MrShorty]

Is "sweetness" a relative term here and depends on context? Grapefruit or orange is (usually) sweeter than lemon, but a donut is sweeter than a grapefruit or orange. Is it possible that, in 2 Ne 2: 15 and 1 Ne: 8, the fruit of the tree of life is clearly sweeter than the forbidden fruit. But, in Genesis, assuming Adam and Eve had never tasted the fruit of the tree of life, found that the forbidden fruit was "sweet" compared to other foods in their (limited??) experience?

[Guest]

The forbidden fruit is sweet. The fruit of the tree of life bitter.

This, in my opinion, refers to the road to it.

I remember clearly my mother's teaching when I was a little kid... "The path to hell is paved with roses. The path to heaven is paved with thorns." My mother has taught us that one has to undergo suffering to follow Christ - for it is just as He said - pick up your cross and follow Me. And when Satan tempted Christ - he tried to tempt him with riches and glory and power, roses of life... all sweet. The path to the Atonement... bitter.

That's how I read and understood those verses.

Edited February 18, 2014 by anatess

[Vort]

My own opinion:

The fruit of the tree of life is eternal life, which is sweetest above all. That must be the sweet fruit.

The fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is opposition. Opposition is necessary but unpleasant. That must be the bitter fruit.

Eve found that bitter fruit enticing and pleasant, at least initially. But it was (to mix our divine and earthly metaphors) a Pandora's Box.

I'm all for a close reading of scriptures. I do think it's entirely possible to overanalyze some out-of-context scripture and read meaning into it that wasn't intended. Discussion around these verses may be an example of just that.

[LittleWyvern]

Hm. My first thought is that perhaps the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life in Lehi's Vision are meant to be two different trees both literally and metaphorically, but I really haven't thought of this before

[Just_A_Guy]

I thought of that too, LW. Chapter 8 doesn't use the phrase "tree of life", but Chapter 11 does use the phrase. *shrug*

[Guest]

My own opinion:

The fruit of the tree of life is eternal life, which is sweetest above all. That must be the sweet fruit.

The fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is opposition. Opposition is necessary but unpleasant. That must be the bitter fruit.

This is an awkward interpretation for me. Usually, when one says, "There's tree A and there's tree B. One is sweet, the other bitter"... It presupposes a "respectively".

[Vort]

This is an awkward interpretation for me. Usually, when one says, "There's tree A and there's tree B. One is sweet, the other bitter"... It presupposes a "respectively".

Hebrew parallelisms are often reversed, as in chiasmus.

[Guest]

Hebrew parallelisms are often reversed, as in chiasmus.

Of course.

In this case, though, I tend to subscribe by the first but I don't believe it is mutually exclusive.

2 Nephi 2 is my most favorite of all BOM chapters. And my favorite teaching out of this is the principle of Opposition. Bitter and Sweet are so intertwined that one does not exist without the other. And one can't taste one without the other.

Therefore, I do believe that my mother was correct in her teaching. The PATH to the forbidden fruit - and as you take a bite of it - is SWEET. It is not until later that you realize it is BITTER. Therefore - you perceive and experience it as sweet, but in end the reality is it is bitter. Sweet and Bitter always together.

In the same token, the PATH to the tree of life is bitter as depicted by Christ's Atoning SACRIFICE. It is not until later - when you have exercised faith - that you realize it is SWEET. Therefore - you perceive and experience it as bitter, but in the end the reality is it is exceedingly white and sweet as Lehi's dream indicates. Sweet and Bitter always together.

Opposition.

When I ponder upon it - I hold to my mother's teaching. Because, it is so easy to be tempted by the sweet things that send you straight to the bitter consequences of sin and so hard to swallow the bitter cup that send you straight to the sweet consequences of eternal life. Looking on the forbidden fruit as sweet keeps me wary of the easy path full of roses sliding straight to hell.

[Anddenex]

Of course.

In this case, though, I tend to subscribe by the first but I don't believe it is mutually exclusive.

2 Nephi 2 is my most favorite of all BOM chapters. And my favorite teaching out of this is the principle of Opposition. Bitter and Sweet are so intertwined that one does not exist without the other. And one can't taste one without the other.

Therefore, I do believe that my mother was correct in her teaching. The PATH to the forbidden fruit - and as you take a bite of it - is SWEET. It is not until later that you realize it is BITTER. Therefore - you perceive and experience it as sweet, but in end the reality is it is bitter. Sweet and Bitter always together.

In the same token, the PATH to the tree of life is bitter as depicted by Christ's Atoning SACRIFICE. It is not until later - when you have exercised faith - that you realize it is SWEET. Therefore - you perceive and experience it as bitter, but in the end the reality is it is exceedingly white and sweet as Lehi's dream indicates. Sweet and Bitter always together.

Opposition.

When I ponder upon it - I hold to my mother's teaching. Because, it is so easy to be tempted by the sweet things that send you straight to the bitter consequences of sin and so hard to swallow the bitter cup that send you straight to the sweet consequences of eternal life. Looking on the forbidden fruit as sweet keeps me wary of the easy path full of roses sliding straight to hell.

An excellent thought Anatess and one that rings true.

[gfchase]

2 Nephi 2:15

And to bring about his eternal purposes in the end of man, after he had created our first parents, and the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and in fine, all things which are created, it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life;

the one being sweet and the other bitter.

Which was which?

Genesis 3:6 (cf Moses 4:12)

And when the woman saw that

the [forbidden] tree was good for food

, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

So if the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was sweet, that would make the fruit of the tree of life bitter. That doesn't seem right. But...

1 Nephi 8:11

And it came to pass that I did go forth and partake of the fruit thereof; and

I beheld that it was most sweet, above all that I ever before tasted

. Yea, and I beheld that the fruit thereof was white, to exceed all the whiteness that I had ever seen.

So the sweet fruit was from the tree of (eternal) life, which would make the forbidden fruit the bitter.

What do you make of this? There is important symbolism involved here, and I suspect it's not merely superficial.

Great question! I think it depends on where you are at in your progression. Eve in tasting the forbidden fruit saw that it was desirable to the taste. Why? At that point it needed to be sweet. They were about to become mortal and bring to pass the will of the Father. The result of that partaking was also bitter because it brought to pass pain, sorrow and a separation from Father, so it became both sweet and bitter.

Jerry

[Colirio]

There are several ways of viewing this passage and more than one could be correct.

1. The literal sense, he actually compared "fruit" to a "tree." Not fruit to a fruit. I can imagine most any fruit tasting a little sweeter than bark and leaves...

2. Do we know that he was referring specifically to how these things "taste?" Sweet and bitter can both be used to describe feelings. (ie. music that is sweet to the ears; bitter agony, etc.)

3. If we assume that he was metaphorically using two contrasting fruits to describe something of a spiritual nature, then the question would be asked if these sensations apply to the path to be trodden or the end result to be obtained.

It seems that Anatess is looking towards these "tastes" as describing the path. The path to Eternal Life is full of difficulty, trials, and is often hard to bear. The path to destruction is much easier and well traveled.

If we look to the taste of the fruit as a representation of the end result, then obviously the sweetness of Eternal Life is deeply contrasted by the bitterness of Hell.

As Gfchase pointed out, depending on where we are on the path, the Spirit could certainly touch our hearts to different meanings in order to teach and comfort us.

[sleepless3977]

from the Book of Mormon Student Manual about the tree of life and the fruit thereof:

The Tree of Life as a Symbol of Jesus Christ and His Atonement

• Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles taught that the tree of life represents the the Savior and His Atonement: “The Spirit made explicit that the Tree of Life and its precious fruit are symbols of Christ’s redemption” (Christ and the New Covenant: The Messianic Message of the Book of Mormon [1997],

160).

Elder Neal A. Maxwell (1926–2004) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles further emphasized that partaking

of the love of God means partaking of the blessings of the Atonement. The tree of life is a symbol of God’s

love and Christ’s Atonement: “The tree of life ... is the love of God (see 1 Nephi 11:25). The love of God for

His children is most profoundly expressed in His gift of Jesus as our Redeemer: ‘God so loved the world,

that he gave his only begotten Son’ ( John 3:16). To partake of the love of God is to partake of Jesus’

Atonement and the emancipations and joys which it can bring” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1999, 6; or

Ensign, Nov. 1999,

[Seminarysnoozer]

Like gfchase implied, perspectives may change how we view these things. While in paradise pretty much all things were good and sweet, I would imagine, for Adam and Eve. The opposition was introduced after the transgression. To the human body (corrupted, post-Fall body) bad tasting things are a warning for potentially dangerous food. I would imagine there was nothing experienced to that point that they could say, "I don't want to eat that because it doesn't taste good." They probably ate all of their broccoli, in other words, while in the Garden. (Not to say broccoli is bad.)