Too much power?

[yjacket]

Confiscated Video Showing Oklahoma Cops Killing Man Released | Photography is Not a Crime: PINAC

If what is in the article true, this just sickens me. Police in today's society are like mini-gods.

[pam]

What I'm seeing in this video is a one sided view of what may have possibly happened. We're not seeing what happened prior to this that caused the police to react in this way.

If it is true, it's very sad.

But what sickens me is that one sees (if true) the actions of a very small percentage of police officers and immediately call all police mini-gods.

I know far too many law enforcement officers who do their jobs well. Care for the people and their communities and yes...There is one officer that I knew that gave his life last year in the line of duty. He left behind a wife and a small son.

So please don't lump all police officers into one category.

[yjacket]

What I'm seeing in this video is a one sided view of what may have possibly happened. We're not seeing what happened prior to this that caused the police to react in this way.

If it is true, it's very sad.

But what sickens me is that one sees (if true) the actions of a very small percentage of police officers and immediately call all police mini-gods.

I know far too many law enforcement officers who do their jobs well. Care for the people and their communities and yes...There is one officer that I knew that gave his life last year in the line of duty. He left behind a wife and a small son.

So please don't lump all police officers into one category.

Absolutely, many, many police officers are extremely upstanding, forthright individuals who do their jobs well, who serve their communities, and who even pay the ultimate price.

But at the end of the day they are human, just like every one else. And because they are human they have the same tendencies as every other human.

D&C 129:39

"39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion."

Because of the laws we have in this country that give police the powers of mini-gods, many end up acting like mini-gods.

I'm not saying all police act like mini-gods, I'm saying the powers that they have are mini-god powers.

In this incident, yes it is one-sided . . . however it is very clear in the video that while 5 police officers are on top of the guy, he is not resisting at all.

[pam]

I'm not saying all police act like mini-gods, I'm saying the powers that they have are mini-god powers.

.

Ahhh but you didn't say this in your OP. You said: Police in today's society are like mini-Gods.

[pam]

And again...all we're seeing is once they have them down. We don't see video as to why it took 5 men or what happened prior.

[yjacket]

Ahhh but you didn't say this in your OP. You said: Police in today's society are like mini-Gods.

?? yes they are like mini-gods, i.e. they have powers that are IMO far above what they should have in order to do their jobs. Some of those abuse said power (i.e. the video), some do not.

You are conflating me saying they are mini-gods to me saying that police are evil. That I did not say. The title is "Too much power?", not "All police are evil mini-gods".

[yjacket]

And again...all we're seeing is once they have them down. We don't see video as to why it took 5 men or what happened prior.

Maybe 5 men were needed to bring him down . . . but 5 men on top of him and he isn't struggling for at least a minute and a half. Got it . . . As soon as he stop struggling they should have started thinking about backing off.

[Guest]

Maybe 5 men were needed to bring him down . . . but 5 men on top of him and he isn't struggling for at least a minute and a half. Got it . . . As soon as he stop struggling they should have started thinking about backing off.

They did. It just took them 2 minutes instead of 1.5 to judge he's not going to kill them.

I've been drilling this into my kids' heads. Youtube videos are not arbiters of truth.

[Guest]

?? yes they are like mini-gods, i.e. they have powers that are IMO far above what they should have in order to do their jobs. Some of those abuse said power (i.e. the video), some do not.

You are conflating me saying they are mini-gods to me saying that police are evil. That I did not say. The title is "Too much power?", not "All police are evil mini-gods".

No, I don't think the video displays they have too much power. And no, I don't think they have too much power. They have the power necessary to face the dregs of society everyday. Contrary to what you see in movies and TV series', every single bullet in a cops' gun has to be accounted for. You lose one, you're filing a report explaining why - and may be suspended without pay if the public makes a big fuss. They don't get a judge to rule over the situation first.

It's like people calling doctors mini-gods. Yes, they have the power of life and death in their hands. But the whipping they get from the public if they make a teeny tiny mistake - hah, even a non-mistake but perceived by the public as such - is enough to tell you how easily they can get stomped on.

Mini-gods are not that easily stomped.

[NeuroTypical]

The more I learn about the realities of police life, the less inclined I am to judge them harshly.

For example: The police chief of my local small town tells a story. Over his many decades of service, he had handcuffed hundreds, maybe thousands of suspects and taken them into custody. A long track record of safe, effective detaining of suspects - with one exception. The only injury he had ever received by a handcuffed person, was delivered to him by a cuffed 14 year old tiny underweight girl. She had resisted arrest and had taken several officers to work her into her cuffs. The chief (regular beat cop at the time), was holding on to her arms and standing behind her while she struggled. She used his hold on her to lift herself up in the air, and came down hard with one foot, almost kicking his kneecap off.

A gut reaction from someone will automatically be "well yeah, she was resisting - the guy in the video wasn't". Cops also give me stories about people who appear to not be resisting and then explode into violence. A cop who wants to go home after his shift, plans for the worst.

Yes, there are bad cops. I don't think I've ever met one, and that video may or may not show any, but I'm sure they're out there somewhere.

[yjacket]

No, I don't think the video displays they have too much power

You do realize b/c of the direct actions of the police, he is dead right? 5 grown men on top of an individual who is not struggling isn't excessive?

At least Rodney King was moving

While we don't know what occurred prior to the incident, the fact that he is dead should mean something . . . .

Edited February 27, 2014 by yjacket

[pam]

You are conflating me saying they are mini-gods to me saying that police are evil. That I did not say. The title is "Too much power?", not "All police are evil mini-gods".

When I see a title "Too much power" and the words sickening and mini-Gods all in the same post, I can't help but feel that there is a negative tone there.

It's just the way it comes across to me.

You may not have meant it that way, but that's the way I personally am reading it.

[yjacket]

When I see a title "Too much power" and the words sickening and mini-Gods all in the same post, I can't help but feel that there is a negative tone there.

It's just the way it comes across to me.

You may not have meant it that way, but that's the way I personally am reading it.

I can understand that.

This incident started out by a mother slapping her daughter. A do-gooder decided to call the cops to report a domestic incident. Cops come and demand ID, man (who probably either doesn't have ID or who is illegal) resists handing ID b/c he is afraid, cops now get upset and attempt to arrest, man is upset (maybe thinks he is being deported) and starts resisting back, more cops called and this happens. I would really like to know what else happened in this particular case.

IMO, a very tragic set of circumstances that could have been avoided at many different junctions. All I know is that when someone is dead due to an interaction with police something went seriously wrong. Maybe it was the guy's fault, maybe not, the video IMO sure doesn't shine a good light on things.

I think too many cops have a mentality and an assumption of bad things happening. For example, I see cops combat park when stopping cars on the freeway. I understand the reasoning, but in reality most people don't flee just like most people don't resist arrest.

And to the my point of mini-gods. I believe people fear police. I know that if I have any interaction with the police, my behavior alters radically. I keep quite, yes sir, no sir, polite, etc.

My point of mini-gods isn't that they can't be punished for being bad actors, the point is that when they wear the badge they hold power of life and death and the slightest wrong move can spell disaster. Normal citizens that are really pretty good people get caught in the crossfire. I've read enough to know that the wrong interaction with cops can be a life altering incident.

As for the dregs of society, a huge portion of arrests stem from drug users. In general, police don't like to go into the really bad areas of town.

Edited February 27, 2014 by yjacket

[pam]

I think too many cops have a mentality and an assumption of bad things happening. For example, I see cops combat park when stopping cars on the freeway. I understand the reasoning, but in reality most people don't flee just like most people don't resist arrest.

I'm not a police officer nor have I ever been trained to be one...but I can understand why police might feel this way. You're right..most stopped during traffic stops don't flee and most don't resist arrest..but any situation can turn nasty and even deadly and I think they have to think that the potential is there in even the most simplest of traffic stops.

The officer I knew that was killed was only investigating why a car was parked in an unusual position on a street. He was shot and killed without even drawing his gun or returning fire. He had not even gotten out of his car.

So to me, if I were a police officer, I would be considering that every situation, no matter how simple it appears at first, could turn nasty and even deadly.

[Palerider]

I am not buying into this video until the one from the theatre is released. Yes there are some bad cops, but I am still not buying into it.

These cops are on duty even when there not working. One of my son in laws is a deputy, have been out to dinner with him and my daughter and grandson many times. Each time always run into someone they have arrested etc. recently it was a person who has an active warrant. Anyway enough of that..........I hope the other video is released soon.

[Guest]

You do realize b/c of the direct actions of the police, he is dead right? 5 grown men on top of an individual who is not struggling isn't excessive?

At least Rodney King was moving

While we don't know what occurred prior to the incident, the fact that he is dead should mean something . . . .

The death of the individual does not make the police mini-gods just like the death of a patient does not make doctors mini-gods.

The death of the individual may just be a product of bad situation, bad individual, or bad policemen. In either of these cases, somebody is going to answer for it.

That doesn't make police mini-gods. That makes police human.

[yjacket]

The death of the individual does not make the police mini-gods just like the death of a patient does not make doctors mini-gods.

The death of the individual may just be a product of bad situation, bad individual, or bad policemen. In either of these cases, somebody is going to answer for it.

That doesn't make police mini-gods. That makes police human.

Boston lockdown says hello:

https://www.google.com/search?q=boston+police+lockdown&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=YF0PU_bbFanF0AHg9oGQCA&sqi=2&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1250&bih=859

If that isn't the power of mini-gods . . . .well

Every society on earth eventually gets the government they deserve. People become enslaved because they allow themselves to become enslaved. They justify outrageous circumstances in their mind as for their own good and then when the power comes knocking at their door they might think twice.

Local law enforcement buys tanks, armored personnel carriers, they have military gear . . .

I think there needs to be a healthy guarding of misuse of power and trust; laws should be simple enough that the common citizen understands those laws. I see the video and I see the potential that police misused their power. Out of how many posters here, I'm the only one who sees this as a potential severe misuse of power.

People lead themselves to their own enslavement.

[Guest]

Boston lockdown says hello:

https://www.google.com/search?q=boston+police+lockdown&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=YF0PU_bbFanF0AHg9oGQCA&sqi=2&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1250&bih=859

If that isn't the power of mini-gods . . . .well

Every society on earth eventually gets the government they deserve. People become enslaved because they allow themselves to become enslaved. They justify outrageous circumstances in their mind as for their own good and then when the power comes knocking at their door they might think twice.

Local law enforcement buys tanks, armored personnel carriers, they have military gear . . .

I think there needs to be a healthy guarding of misuse of power and trust; laws should be simple enough that the common citizen understands those laws. I see the video and I see the potential that police misused their power. Out of how many posters here, I'm the only one who sees this as a potential severe misuse of power.

People lead themselves to their own enslavement.

Boston Lockdown is not a demonstration of police being mini-gods. Boston Lockdown, like the indecency of TSA inspections, is a demonstration of a terrorized population. Because, no matter how you slice and dice it, the terrorists may be dead but they have already won. Americans walk the streets (or airport terminals) in fear.

Basically, what I'm saying is... you're barking at the wrong tree.

[EarlJibbs]

If this was brought up on this forum to shed light on bad cops, it’s doing a very poor job in my opinion. I certainly hope that was not the intent. The video shows five cops holding the man down and cuffing him. They are breathing heavy and there is no video of them beating him. The woman in the video says that they beat him, and the cop admits them struggling with this man. Trying to detain him could easily have looked a little violent. Struggles do not often look like a pillow fight.

The fact that the article comes from an apparent anti-cop site rings an alarm in my mind. Of course there are bad cops, just like there are bad people anywhere, including church leaders for that matter.

I was pulled over once with my children in the back seat, my brother (looks like a rocker) in the front seat in the evening one night. I have been pulled over before, but not in this area of town and not at night. The police officer tells me to place my hands on the steering wheel, and yells at my brother to do the same. My children looked worried in the back seat. I reassured them everything was okay. He looks at my information, He returned my information and we left. I wasn't upset that he treated me at first like a suspect, I was driving an older Honda Civic with tinted windows in a potential rough area. I could have been anyone, or my brother.

Unfortunately police officers do not have the luxury that the majority of us do at our jobs, which happens to be a very high percentage less chance of death by seemingly regular looking citizens.

[pam]

Out of how many posters here, I'm the only one who sees this as a potential severe misuse of power.

And many of us have stated that we don't have all the facts based on a video taken by the wife of the person in question. I'm not going to say that there was or even was the potential misuse of power without all of the facts.

[EarlJibbs]

Boston lockdown says hello:

https://www.google.com/search?q=boston+police+lockdown&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=YF0PU_bbFanF0AHg9oGQCA&sqi=2&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1250&bih=859

If that isn't the power of mini-gods . . . .well

Every society on earth eventually gets the government they deserve. People become enslaved because they allow themselves to become enslaved. They justify outrageous circumstances in their mind as for their own good and then when the power comes knocking at their door they might think twice.

Local law enforcement buys tanks, armored personnel carriers, they have military gear . . .

I think there needs to be a healthy guarding of misuse of power and trust; laws should be simple enough that the common citizen understands those laws. I see the video and I see the potential that police misused their power. Out of how many posters here, I'm the only one who sees this as a potential severe misuse of power.

People lead themselves to their own enslavement.

Militarizing our law enforcement is a bad idea in my opinion also. Many appear to be being trained by local military units and yes it is alarming if you are thinking of the police force becoming a branch of the military if the government states that the need arises. But this has nothing to do with the original post and is not supported in the least with what you originally provided. I am against giving the government too much control over any police force as they are there specifically for the people.

On the flip side, what are cops supposed to do when they face what they do now days? Long gone are the days of Andy Griffith and Barney. Our own corruption and influences of the adversary has made us who we are today. Not the police force.

[pam]

Militarizing our law enforcement is a bad idea in my opinion also. Many appear to be being trained by local military units and yes it is alarming if you are thinking of the police force becoming a branch of the military if the government states that the need arises.

Personally, I'm not sure I agree with this 100%. I think it depends on the areas and if there is a need. There are many areas that are more prone to violent riots etc that a squad of police officers are not prepared to deal with. If you take your Mayberry type of community probably not. But look at how some riots have gotten out of hand and some kind of military type force (whether it be actual military or trained police officers in military strategy) are needed.

And FWIW, I totally agree with your 2nd paragraph.

[Palerider]

I live in a rural area of Missouri and it's amazing what kinds of things happen here. I think in the years to come Police Depts will have to give officers night vision glasses like the military use. This is just my opinion.

[NeuroTypical]

My local small-town cops have something of a SWAT team. They were first on the scene for Colorado's New Life Church shooting a few years back. They run a citizens academy where folks like me can go spend a few evenings a month learning about what they do. I wouldn't call what they do "military", because the military doesn't really try to enter a place and neutralize a threat without using deadly force if possible, while doing everything possible to protect innocent life.

They got outfitted with full-auto MP5's a while ago, a result of a drug bust property seize. And they've got several M-16's. As I read about the active shooter situations and homegrown terrorist threats, I'm grateful to have cops who do what they can to not let themselves be outgunned.

[MarginOfError]

I tend to give law enforcement a fair amount of lee-way up front. I understand they have a tough job, and when push comes to shove, their desire to go home to their families at the end of the shift is going to win out.

Did they act inappropriately in this case? I don't know. I just don't have the information to answer the question. Should the question be asked? Absolutely. And it should be answered by an independent investigation.

No one should be passing judgement until the investigation is done.