Can you be a "good" member of the Church and not want to go to church?

[Traveler]

Perhaps you are right.  It is also possible that I am being overly sensitive.  I read it the same way Lakuni does, that you are saying get over it.  I don't think that is what the Savior intended, but it is how I interpret your words--to be fair, not just your words, but many who have said similar things.

 

This is a topic that is close to my heart.  I find church meetings painful more often than not.  I have PTSD*, and things that are said or not said at church trigger me.  It is only because of my love of the Savior, and to be an example to my children that I continue to attend every week.  

 

I do try to serve others.  I make the comments in meetings that I would like to hear.  I try to "do all the right things" but when all is said and done, it is STILL really hard for me to go to church.  I am just getting to a point where I don't dread it anymore, but is still hard.

 

I hope that helps clarify my position a little better.

 

 

 

* I don't say this as an excuse as in "I will always be this way", I'm in therapy, and I am working very hard to heal.  But healing takes time.  Service helps but it is not an overnight solution.

 

My father would say that the trick in life is not getting what you want to happen - but rather learning to want what is happining.  He would say, for example, that rather than always trying to get what you want in order to think you are happy - learn to appriciate and want what you have.

 

Otherwise you what you want (including happiness) will always be something that you do not have.

[Lakumi]

Have you considered the possibility that you were in the pre-existence so advanced that in order for your experience here to be meaningful you had to have a challenge suited to your capabilities?  My father would say that it is not the difficulty that makes something seem impossible but our unwillingness to face difficulties.  Or as others have suggested – when the going gets tough; the tough get going.  One other thing my father would say, “Courage is not going on without fear but going on in spite of fear.”

No, but there is no actual knowing that is true, if there was such a thing I obviously don't remember it. But even still, I know what would challenge me now for the positive and I go after those, church to me at this moment in time doesn't seem positive for my emotional wellbeing.

I could take the chance, but if I am wrong I have suffered for nothing.

[Guest]

And yet the gospel also teaches us, "Do not run faster than you have strength."   That is what I am talking about.

 

I understand about service, I really do.  I did a series of posts on my blog that I called "Monday Mitzvahs"...which were all about very small acts of service that even someone who is deeply depressed or overwhelmed can do.  Of course, service is a blessing,  

 

The point I disagree with you on is what I see as your oversimplification of the problem.  You can't just say to someone who has a mental disorder "lose yourself and you will feel better" and expect that to be the end of it--just as you would not expect someone with cancer to pray away their illness. Boredom is not the only thing that can make people feel uncomfortable at church.  I think your advice applies in some situations, but not all.  "Do not run faster than you have strength" and many other aspects of the gospel can be applied here as well.

 

But it is what Jesus Christ himself said.  He did not say, "it is when you lose yourself in the service of others that you find yourself - unless you have a mental illness"...

 

Service applies to ALL situations - not just some.  Mental illness included.  The question is not whether we should or shouldn't give service in this case.  Because, mental illness or not, we are commanded to love others as we love ourselves - and Jesus Himself showed us what that means when He knelt down to wash his apostle's feet.  The question becomes how to serve in the capacity that one is able.

[Lakumi]

How many doll collecting, mysanthrope, crazies did Jesus meet? I donno, when all you want is solitude most of the time, what service is there for you?!

[Guest]

How many doll collecting, mysanthrope, crazies did Jesus meet? I donno, when all you want is solitude most of the time, what service is there for you?!

 

A lot.  You included.  What, you thought Jesus died 2000 years ago so He never met you? 

 

Lakumi, I know your autistic tendencies make you feel like there's nothing you can possibly do to serve others... but, you are proving yourself wrong right here on lds.net.  There are many of us here that feel that you have served us in many ways.

[Lakumi]

A lot.  You included.  What, you thought Jesus died 2000 years ago so He never met you? 

 

Lakumi, I know your autistic tendencies make you feel like there's nothing you can possibly do to serve others... but, you are proving yourself wrong right here on lds.net.  There are many of us here that feel that you have served us in many ways.

 

 

...like?

I don't remember Jesus, I wonder if I had a friend in the pre-life?

[Traveler]

No, but there is no actual knowing that is true, if there was such a thing I obviously don't remember it. But even still, I know what would challenge me now for the positive and I go after those, church to me at this moment in time doesn't seem positive for my emotional wellbeing.

I could take the chance, but if I am wrong I have suffered for nothing.

How do you know what is true from what you think is true?

 

Just as a side note - I am a consulting engineer in the field of automation, robotics and artificial intelligence.   Intelligence as defined in the scientific world is the ability to learn from experience and change behavior.   In essence learning is the ability to discover truth that was previously not realized.  With this as a definition – do you think of yourself as intelligent?

 

Do you consider the process of discovering truth a pathway of suffering?

[Lakumi]

I think so yes, I take truth by what I can be proven to exist, what I can lay infront of someone and say; this is the truth, the subject and my proof for it. I can see its proof and show it to others.

There is no doubts in things like science or chemistry and geography, religion has doubt and I find doubt to cause me to think even more and more

I don't consider discovering truth any sort of suffering, why should it be?

[Traveler]

I think so yes, I take truth by what I can be proven to exist, what I can lay infront of someone and say; this is the truth, the subject and my proof for it. I can see its proof and show it to others.

There is no doubts in things like science or chemistry and geography, religion has doubt and I find doubt to cause me to think even more and more

I don't consider discovering truth any sort of suffering, why should it be?

As an engineer and scientist I find great value in empirical evidence.  But some truths of perhaps even greater value cannot be discovered by empirical evidence alone.  For example the discovery of the truth of love often is discovered by suffering.  This seems to often be the case that parents suffer for their children - that through suffering we discover the truth of our own love.  If I were the betting type - I would bet that if you ever experiment with the truth of loving someone - that you will experience suffering.  It is not that great things are not difficult only that the difficulty of great things is worth the suffering to discover or obtain it.

[Lakumi]

the suffering when you are alone is less then the suffering when you love someone.

People certainly don't act like their happy in relationships, and they don't act happy on dates or anything.

No one's happy, and they drag me down with them, so I prefer solitude. I can regulate my own happiness, throw someone else in the mix and its chaos.

[MormonMama]

I don't mean to "re-hijack" my own thread (and I'm not at all offended by the tangent it has gone off on; I think it's a great discussion), but in the weeks since I first posted this topic I've been amazed by how many articles and talks, in magazines, church publications and online, have dealt with my very concerns.  I'm talking about things that have come out since I asked my question that I've just stumbled across accidentally.

 

I have been presented with so much information, encouragement and spiritual nourishment from these talks and articles, just when I needed it most.  As always, I am stunned by just how aware Heavenly Father is of my needs and how He comes through with what I need when I am finally receptive to it.

[Traveler]

I don't mean to "re-hijack" my own thread (and I'm not at all offended by the tangent it has gone off on; I think it's a great discussion), but in the weeks since I first posted this topic I've been amazed by how many articles and talks, in magazines, church publications and online, have dealt with my very concerns.  I'm talking about things that have come out since I asked my question that I've just stumbled across accidentally.

 

I have been presented with so much information, encouragement and spiritual nourishment from these talks and articles, just when I needed it most.  As always, I am stunned by just how aware Heavenly Father is of my needs and how He comes through with what I need when I am finally receptive to it.

 

My father believed and taught that happiness is not getting what you want but rather learning to love the good things you have.  He would also say that most people that are unhappy are unhappy because they create their unhappiness by what they want - so that there is no possible way they can be happy.  He used two examples of money and health.  I will use his example of health.  He said that most people would think they could be happy if they could have a strong healthy body.  But  they also think they could be happy by eating the things they like to eat.  The problem is that the things they like to eat to make them happy leaves them with a unhealthy body that does not make them happy to look at in a mirror.  So they are either unhappy because they cannot eat what they want, or they are unhappy because they have to exercise (do thing they do not want) or they are unhappy because their body looks and is so unhealthy.

 

His advice - is to learn (the key word is learn) to love eating the types of food that make you healthy and learn to do activities that make you healthy.  Then; wonder of wonders.  No matter if you get a strong healthy body or not you are happy eating healthy food and doing healthy activities.  And what your body looks like in the mirror - really is not that important but never-the-less looks rather good, strong and healthy.

[MormonMama]

My father believed and taught that happiness is not getting what you want but rather learning to love the good things you have.  He would also say that most people that are unhappy are unhappy because they create their unhappiness by what they want - so that there is no possible way they can be happy.

 

I think your dad is a smart guy!  I've definitely seen this at work in my own life.  I recall that in the past I have been happy or unhappy with the same exact set of circumstances in my life, the only thing that changed was my mood, my perception and my willingness to be happy.  I know that when I choose to be happy, I am!  With bipolar disorder and depression that's not always easy, but I definitely notice a difference in how I feel based on how I try to feel.

 

Thank you for your post!  It's a good reminder to me that my happiness really is up to me, not my circumstances in life.