Here we go again

[Meerkatarmy]

My point was that she had implied these women wouldn't want men in the RS, she wasn't stating a personal opinion she was trying to discredit them by making presumptions.

The evidence that RS was good was the fact the teacher encouraged participation where everyone got to share their thoughts if they wanted to

[Meerkatarmy]

Correction you respect people that stand up for what you believe in... I think you would show a whole lot less respect to people who stand up for something you disagree with...

ding ding ding.

You're making assumptions. I said I didn't want to hold the priesthood so their action isn't what I believe in; I respect people that stand up and take action even when it is likely to be detrimental to themselves. Good qoute bt Voltaire "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"

Also who still refers to black people as blacks any more? Have we transported back to the 60's by mistake

[Backroads]

All my black friends refer to themselves as black...

And before you get on any particular soap box, please make note of dahlia's race...

[Meerkatarmy]

Yes people refer to themselves as black people don't say the blacks like their a whole diff species any more.

[estradling75]

You're making assumptions. I said I didn't want to hold the priesthood so their action isn't what I believe in; I respect people that stand up and take action even when it is likely to be detrimental to themselves. Good qoute bt Voltaire "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"

And yet when you had ladies with lots of life experience tell you what they believed... In you degrade them as old bats that make really ignorant remarks

[Dravin]

All my black friends refer to themselves as black...

And before you get on any particular soap box, please make note of dahlia's race...

It's also common vernacular in my experience, one wouldn't use it in a formal register but that's true of a lot of vernacular and I hear it from people of various ethnicities. I wonder if we've got an American English/British English divide here.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Dravin

[Backroads]

Sure they do. I hear it frequently enough and from people acting with the best intentions.

[Meerkatarmy]

Dahlia said "usally the blacks" which to me isn't OK and I showed the post to some of my BME friends and they thought it was odd way to refer to people

[Meerkatarmy]

Sure they do. I hear it frequently enough and from people acting with the best intentions.

Well may be it is a cultural thing as I have never heard it said here and would get at least a raised eyebrow from people round here

[Backroads]

I'm seconding the US/British divide...

I don't think it's the racism you want it to be.

[Dravin]

What is BME?

At any rate, the response of Dahlia, a black women who was actually alive in the 60s, should be interesting.

[Meerkatarmy]

And yet when you had ladies with lots of life experience tell you what they believed... In you degrade them as old bats that make really ignorant remarks

I am sorry but how is people choose to be mentally ill, immigrants are taking over and homeless people are willful sinner an OK thing to say?

[Backroads]

The fact is, too much of society is not interested in a "color-blind" system but would prefer a society that recognizes cultural and ethnic diversity. So, in my area at any rate, few people see any problem with acknowledging different groups and, yes, giving them a label of acknowledgment. I'm sure offensive terms vary from place to place, but it all boils down to having to call a group something.

[Meerkatarmy]

I'm seconding the US/British divide...

I don't think it's the racism you want it to be.

I don't want it to be anything it is just a different way of saying something that confussed me/felt was a bit odd

[Backroads]

I am sorry but how is people choose to be mentally ill, immigrants are taking over and homeless people are willful sinner an OK thing to say?

It's not. I also sympathized somewhat with your original complaint.

And, while I risk being called agist here, sometimes you just have to smile and nod at the beliefs and opinions of your elders. Yes, they have much life experience that should be acknowledged and respected, but I also admit they sometimes have ways of thinking and life outlooks that do not mesh with your generation's thoughts and yes, sometimes the clashes are big.

But I've learned that in many cases you just can't argue with them. You need to understand these "old bats" come from a different time with different experiences. Wrong or right, they have their experience to back up their opinions.

Fifty years from now, I guarantee you and I will be the old bats with the fuddy duddy and awful world views.

[estradling75]

I am sorry but how is people choose to be mentally ill, immigrants are taking over and homeless people are willful sinner an OK thing to say?

I didn't say their comments were ok (Because I wasn't there I did not hear it)

But do you really think it is OK to call people ignorant an old bats? Do you think your comments here about them are in some way better?

[Guest]

(pssst, Meerkat. . . I think dahlia is more qualified than most of us to determine what is offensive in this case.)

[michaelgbluth]

I'll say the same thing I said in my other post. Before I die, the Church will ordain women to the priesthood. If not, the Church will gradually lose credibility, influence and eventually, relevance. The Church would rather change "doctrine" (like they have in the past) to maintain influence and power than be completely dogmatic and fundmentalist.

[Backroads]

I don't want it to be anything it is just a different way of saying something that confussed me/felt was a bit odd

It's all good!

Story of note: I have a great uncle who lives in the deep south. The "n word" is a big part of his vocabulary. He is also a great member of the community who happens to be most beloved by the black community. He is, in no way I understand, a racist.

But... he is from an era where the "n word" was used. For him, it's purely cultural.

[Meerkatarmy]

I didn't say their comments were ok (Because I wasn't there I did not hear it)

But do you really think it is OK to call people ignorant an old bats? Do you think your comments here about them are in some way better?

No I should take the oldbats bit back but the ignorant bit is still true. If you say something through lack of knowledge you are ignorant. If I claimed Muslims believe pink elephants rule over Allah I would expect to be called ignorant.

[Suzie]

"Women in the Church, by a very large majority, do not share your advocacy for priesthood ordination for women and consider that position to be extreme."

Is there an official survey the Church conducted? Anyone has the data they used? (number, location, etc).

[Suzie]

btw - Are these women being disingenuous when they say the support the Church and its leaders and then do this stuff?

How are they doing that? By expressing their opinion? So far, I don't think they are doing anything wrong and the Church certainly isn't excommunicating them or using any disciplinary action (that I am aware of) which would indicate the same sentiment.

[Suzie]

I am sorry but how is people choose to be mentally ill, immigrants are taking over and homeless people are willful sinner an OK thing to say?

An ignorant person is someone who lacks knowledge, often times we use the word as an insult but the proper definition of the word is about someone who just lacks knowledge. If someone says people choose to be mentally ill, etc they are being ignorant.

[estradling75]

No I should take the oldbats bit back but the ignorant bit is still true. If you say something through lack of knowledge you are ignorant. If I claimed Muslims believe pink elephants rule over Allah I would expect to be called ignorant.

Fair enough... although I will reinforce Backroads comment. Give yourself 60 years and then see how ignorant the local 20 somethings find you.

[Windseeker]

Here's the problem I would see if women held the priesthood:

Men would no longer participate and contribute. Why? Women just do it better. There would be less of a feeling of 'need' and 'belonging' and 'duty' because there are typically a LOT more women at church who could then fulfill these duties.

No, it wouldn't happen 'all at once', but it would be a gradually increasing problem.

Without men needing to hold the priesthood, would they strive to be worthy holders of the priesthood - ready and willing to give a blessing as faithful home teachers? I would guess that the desire, drive, and duty to do so would be reduced.

Of course, later on, where would you draw the line of 'who goes to Elder's Quorum?" and "who gets to go to Relief Society?"

Just some thoughts.

I feel the same way. I know my wife and my mom, and I can say without the Priesthood I would be more then happy to sit back and let the women do everything.

If life is about progression then certainly the Priesthood was designed to facilitate and offer structure to bring Men to perfection. In other words it's here to address our weaknesses and to help us grow. If it was needful for Women to be ordained to the Priesthood then wouldn't that have already happened? Where do we teach that God loves Women less? Or do you think perhaps they might not require the Priesthood in the same way Men do?

My father was a Bishop and somethings I think without his callings and duties (and my mothers nagging unfortunately) he would have been completely content to hand it all over to my mom and go back to flipping channels.

I don't see Women ever getting the Priesthood. I feel bad for those Women who feel less because it's not officially confired on them. I don't think they need to go back and work on understanding the gospel fundamentals of the Plan of Salvation and Atonement.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Windseeker