Addictions

[Seminarysnoozer]

Oh no, you misunderstand me. I wasn't talking about actual full-blown possession, I was asking if whether or not, when we give in to temptations, the spirit(s) responsible actually receive pleasure along with you. It would explain why they would even want to do so in the first place. They want to satisfy their appetites through you. This also aligns with what Alma said about those same spirits "possessing" our bodies.

 

"Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God.  Nay, ye cannot say this, for that same spirit which doth possess you bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world."  (Alma 34:34)

 

If not, then I'm sure it would just come down to simple spite and/or dominance as I mentioned before.

I think Alma 34 is refering to our own spirit.  The characteristics exhibited or formed while in this life to our own spirit will remain and possess the body in the next life.  Now is the time to change our characteristics, our probationary time, as after this life it will remain that way with those same characteristics.

 

Evil spirits find joy in making us miserable as they are, that is where their satisfaction comes from. They enjoy bringing others down as opposed to experiencing something good for themselves.  It is interesting that eternal joy is the exact opposite - to find joy in the success of others.  God's eternal joy is to bring about the eternal life of man. Evil spirits find pleasure in the eternal destruction of man with some misguided thought that that makes their situation better. (Is what I imagine).

[Seminarysnoozer]

You are making an assumption that pain disease and mental illness is not associated in any way with unclean spirits.  It is interesting that scripture indicates otherwise.  As fallen entities we are subject to the Devil and the pain and suffering he can cause us to endure.  I would also point to what we know of the millennium - that the Devil will be unable to inflict man and during that time there will be no sickness, disease, pain or suffering.  It would appear indeed that sickness, disease, pain and suffering are all because of Satan having power over men and that when Satan is removed such things are no more.

 

I have always been interested in the placebo effect and that a person's attitude (spiritually) has a great deal to do with dealing with various infirmities.

I think you didn't read the "Don't get me wrong...." paragraph.

 

Not "all" disease and mental illness.  I said I agree with "at times" an actual unclean spirit being is involved.

 

What happens in the millenium?  Our body changes.  Don't forget that.   Some of the effects on the body are reversed, most of the corruption is removed.  There is enough to allow for agency but the veil is partly lifted and the body changes similar to its body in the Garden of Eden.

 

Because of the Fall we are subject to the pain and suffering the Devil can inflict, which is through the body and secondarily changing our spirit.  This mortal body, which was brought on by the Devil's temptation in the Garden of Eden, allows for that suffering through its corruption. I suppose if a situation requires a little more of that suffering or buffeting than already is given through our corrupted body then their might be some personal touch given.

 

If the Devil really had that much power over a person's spirit, why didn't he exhibit that power in the first estate test?  I think the Devil gave it all he had during the first estate battle, I don't think it was a half effort allowing some spirits to slip through the cracks to be tested here.  We were fully veted and tested spirits upon arriving here, every one of us, now is the test of the spirit and body.

[Traveler]

I think you didn't read the "Don't get me wrong...." paragraph.

 

Not "all" disease and mental illness.  I said I agree with "at times" an actual unclean spirit being is involved.

 

What happens in the millenium?  Our body changes.  Don't forget that.   Some of the effects on the body are reversed, most of the corruption is removed.  There is enough to allow for agency but the veil is partly lifted and the body changes similar to its body in the Garden of Eden.

 

Because of the Fall we are subject to the pain and suffering the Devil can inflict, which is through the body and secondarily changing our spirit.  This mortal body, which was brought on by the Devil's temptation in the Garden of Eden, allows for that suffering through its corruption. I suppose if a situation requires a little more of that suffering or buffeting than already is given through our corrupted body then their might be some personal touch given.

 

If the Devil really had that much power over a person's spirit, why didn't he exhibit that power in the first estate test?  I think the Devil gave it all he had during the first estate battle, I don't think it was a half effort allowing some spirits to slip through the cracks to be tested here.  We were fully veted and tested spirits upon arriving here, every one of us, now is the test of the spirit and body.

 

Question: Is there opposition in all things?  Next question:  If G-d can and will heal all pain and suffering - what is in opposition to such healing and who is behind it?

[Seminarysnoozer]

Question: Is there opposition in all things?  Next question:  If G-d can and will heal all pain and suffering - what is in opposition to such healing and who is behind it?

There is opposition but the opposition is not equal, we know who will win that battle, ending the opposition.

 

The fallen world and all things that pertain to it is behind the pain and suffering that comenced with the Fall of Adam and Eve that was as a result of the Devil's temptation.  Behind that is God's plan for us to have a chance with agency, a probationary period in which we will have to choose between carnal things and spiritual things.  Spiritual choices are made available by our Savior in that we start with the light of Christ and then we have the comforter to help us as well as Christ' gospel.   On the other hand (the opposition), we have the corruption of the world around us which includes our bodies and Satan and his followers who have been given some command over the things of this world enough to bruise our heel.  But we have power to crush his head, an uneven opposition.

[Traveler]

There is opposition but the opposition is not equal, we know who will win that battle, ending the opposition.

 

The fallen world and all things that pertain to it is behind the pain and suffering that comenced with the Fall of Adam and Eve that was as a result of the Devil's temptation.  Behind that is God's plan for us to have a chance with agency, a probationary period in which we will have to choose between carnal things and spiritual things.  Spiritual choices are made available by our Savior in that we start with the light of Christ and then we have the comforter to help us as well as Christ' gospel.   On the other hand (the opposition), we have the corruption of the world around us which includes our bodies and Satan and his followers who have been given some command over the things of this world enough to bruise our heel.  But we have power to crush his head, an uneven opposition.

 

Hmmmmm - I have thought that the opposition is in essence equal or if anything in slight favor for evil as the default of the natural man which is to side with the opposition to G-d.  That the difference for us will be a result of our agency which is a spiritual characteristic first exercised in its infancy in the per-existence.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Hmmmmm - I have thought that the opposition is in essence equal or if anything in slight favor for evil as the default of the natural man which is to side with the opposition to G-d.  That the difference for us will be a result of our agency which is a spiritual characteristic first exercised in its infancy in the per-existence.

If one takes away Christ it is unfavorable and only looks at mortality.  But, we know we have a Savior and we have an eternal perspective and so the end result is an overwhelming win!! This was the argument in the war in Heaven - why take the chance, you may lose.  That was a lie of an arguement, only a few will be lost, the overwhelming majority will receive a degree of glory and be nothing like natural man. 

 

A third of the host of Heaven sided with Lucifer, not 50% or greater.  And on top of that as Joseph Smith said; "All beings who have bodies have power over those who have not."

 

How many souls will not receive a degree of glory that have lived here compared to all those that do?  In that draws the line between good and evil from a spiritual stand point.  Right now we are also dealing with the evil from those that were cast out. But that will be overcome.  Pretty much every one of us here is a being of glory, only a handfull will not achieve such a thing.  The majority of spirit children of God are not evil.  This life is a test for all those that got an "A" so-to-speak during the war in Heaven.  It is a test to see how great a reward we can handle - A Celestial one, a Terrestrial one or a Telestial one.

 

Pretty much all the spirits in this world receive a gift in the end, that is how great they are, not evil.  D&C 88; " 33 For what doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he receive not the gift? Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift."  It just depends on how much of a gift we want. If we say that hardly anybody deserves a gift, that we are naturally evil for example, then that is the same thing as not receiving the gift.  One of the tools of Satan is to make us think that we are not children of God and that who we really are is what we see in the outer man.  If one does not have an eternal perspective than it does seem that way, that we are all evil.  However, with an eternal perspective we are all glorious. The degree of the glory depends on how much of the gift we are willing to receive.

 

D&C 74: " 88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation.

 89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;"

 

Even those that reach the lowest Kingdom of glory are "heirs of salvation" and live in a place that "surpasses all understanding"

 

1 Corinthians; "“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”   If all are made alive, which force is greater?

 

Elder Theodore Burton; "All mankind will thus receive general salvation, excepting the sons of perdition. Following their resurrection, “they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.” (D&C 88:32.)

These sons of perdition (perhaps only few in number) will be resurrected but will not be redeemed from the power of Satan because they are still filthy; as the prophet Alma said of them: “… they shall be as though there had been no redemption made; for they cannot be redeemed according to God’s justice; and they cannot die, seeing there is no more corruption.” (Alma 12:18.)"

 

Then end result is not even close.

[Blackmarch]

So do you agree or disagree?

 

http://askgramps.org/23973/lose-addictions-die

well i'd imagine the physical half will... but the mental half individuals are still oging to have to struggle with to overcome.

[Traveler]

If one takes away Christ it is unfavorable and only looks at mortality.  But, we know we have a Savior and we have an eternal perspective and so the end result is an overwhelming win!! This was the argument in the war in Heaven - why take the chance, you may lose.  That was a lie of an arguement, only a few will be lost, the overwhelming majority will receive a degree of glory and be nothing like natural man. 

 

A third of the host of Heaven sided with Lucifer, not 50% or greater.  And on top of that as Joseph Smith said; "All beings who have bodies have power over those who have not."

 

How many souls will not receive a degree of glory that have lived here compared to all those that do?  In that draws the line between good and evil from a spiritual stand point.  Right now we are also dealing with the evil from those that were cast out. But that will be overcome.  Pretty much every one of us here is a being of glory, only a handfull will not achieve such a thing.  The majority of spirit children of God are not evil.  This life is a test for all those that got an "A" so-to-speak during the war in Heaven.  It is a test to see how great a reward we can handle - A Celestial one, a Terrestrial one or a Telestial one.

 

Pretty much all the spirits in this world receive a gift in the end, that is how great they are, not evil.  D&C 88; " 33 For what doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he receive not the gift? Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift."  It just depends on how much of a gift we want. If we say that hardly anybody deserves a gift, that we are naturally evil for example, then that is the same thing as not receiving the gift.  One of the tools of Satan is to make us think that we are not children of God and that who we really are is what we see in the outer man.  If one does not have an eternal perspective than it does seem that way, that we are all evil.  However, with an eternal perspective we are all glorious. The degree of the glory depends on how much of the gift we are willing to receive.

 

D&C 74: " 88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation.

 89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;"

 

Even those that reach the lowest Kingdom of glory are "heirs of salvation" and live in a place that "surpasses all understanding"

 

1 Corinthians; "“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”   If all are made alive, which force is greater?

 

Elder Theodore Burton; "All mankind will thus receive general salvation, excepting the sons of perdition. Following their resurrection, “they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.” (D&C 88:32.)

These sons of perdition (perhaps only few in number) will be resurrected but will not be redeemed from the power of Satan because they are still filthy; as the prophet Alma said of them: “… they shall be as though there had been no redemption made; for they cannot be redeemed according to God’s justice; and they cannot die, seeing there is no more corruption.” (Alma 12:18.)"

 

Then end result is not even close.

 

If you are saying the end justifies the means - you just lot me with that last statement.  For the record I am 180 degrees from what I think you are saying.  I believe that the end is by the eternal law of G-d - justified by the means.  We become what we are becoming.  I do not believe it is possible to become what we are not currently and continually making an effort to become.  If the end is for individual glory that end cannot ever be Celestial.  This is precisely why the work and glory of G-d is not about his work and glory.  I believe that just think about one's individual glory - changes the glory that results from our efforts.  As much for others as for self.

[Seminarysnoozer]

If you are saying the end justifies the means - you just lot me with that last statement.  For the record I am 180 degrees from what I think you are saying.  I believe that the end is by the eternal law of G-d - justified by the means.  We become what we are becoming.  I do not believe it is possible to become what we are not currently and continually making an effort to become.  If the end is for individual glory that end cannot ever be Celestial.  This is precisely why the work and glory of G-d is not about his work and glory.  I believe that just think about one's individual glory - changes the glory that results from our efforts.  As much for others as for self.

Celestial glory is not individual, by definition.  It cannot be individual glory, it is based in the success of others. God's glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.  How does that sound like "individual" glory? 

 

The end is to be one.  The end is to be the same, to have 100%.  100% looks like 100% no matter how it arrived at that point. 100% is never individually different from another's 100%. 

 

The Kingdom in which there is individual glory is the Telestial Kingdom where one "star" differs from another.

 

If one aims for "individual" glory they are aiming for Telestial or lower.  We are aiming for being one, to have what God has, which is oneness with all the past present and future, thus becoming eternal.