Jesus Was Called Trailer Trash

[CrimsonKairos]

I do worry about it. I'm worried that someone is tampering with my posts because I've said repeatedly that I don't mean what you and Emma mean by the term "trailer trash," yet you both continue to talk to me as if I mean what you mean. So:

1.) IF someone knows I'm referring to attitude, not social class, with the term "trailer trash;" and,

2.) IF someone continues to insist I'm being insulting and unfairly judging people based on their social status; then...

3.) THEY HAVE NOT BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT I WROTE.

Imagine your friend tells you that when they say someone is "stocky" they mean muscular. Then they call you "stocky" and you get insulted and say, "I'm not fat, you're judging me unfairly!" They say, "No, I told you that I mean 'muscular' when I say 'stocky' even though you and others may think it means 'fat.' I mean 'muscular.'" At that point, anyone who continues to be insulted is an idiot, plain and simple. Do you see the parallel here?

I haven't been talking about social class. I've been talking about attitude.

[Guest Emma Hale Smith]

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…if my definition doesn’t match yours, fine, but for the love of all that is good and holy, stop acting like I mean what you mean or I define “trailer trash” how you do, because I don’t mean what you mean, I don’t define the term how you do, and I’m not insulting anyone...

6pak,

n'K

Perceptions are everything when it comes to politics. You are not being insulting? I believe you, but does that mean people are not being hurt? Of course not.

Don't worry about it. I think there is consensus regarding the content, but not so much on the terminology. It is merely a matter of semantics. Do you want to debate? Great. Do it. Don't do exactly what the people you politically distrust do on a regular basis. Don't you remember the "right wing conspiracy" bit Hillary went on about? It is no different.

I'm not insulted (BTW, Emma's comparison of the N-word and TT were right on in my mind even if it wasn't in yours, but like I said, don't worry about it).

Aaron the Ogre

Aaron,

Perhaps we've planted a seed. I guess I can't really ask for any more than that.

I'm just so happy to know I'm not the only person who comprehends how dangerous the stereotypes can be. For days now I've felt like David against Goliath and Goliath and Goliath which is going to make a lot of people here hoot, since I am an ex-Mormon.

I love your compassion.

Emma

[the Ogre]

Do you see the parallel here?

CK (sorry, I called you 6pak before),

Yes. It's not a hard point you are making.

I haven't been talking about social class. I've been talking about attitude.

Okay, but don't worry about the attitudes of people you cannot change. If you want to discuss the entitlement attitude, then discuss the system. The system might be the only thing you can change. The system is broken. The structure is corrupt. No one disagrees with you (on this board).

The problem you are running into is a conflict over terminology and the perceptions people have regarding said terminology. It is the words in question, not the attitudes of those who disagree with you.

You have described a problem of attitude and I understand what you are saying, but do you understand the harmful nature of the words used that has caused all this headache?

One of the ways that the structure is broken is that civil discourse is impossible when language gets in the way. Do you want to make a point about the lazy people who take advantage of the system like the bum that lives down-stairs from me? If so, don't call the guy a bum, but discover the way he takes advantage of the system and squash that. People who are belittled will always have champions. My advise: don't label.

Labeling is like pornography in that it reduces a person to inhuman levels or puts them in the position of social-outcasts. The label 'Mormon' when attached to Mitt Romney has reduced him in the eyes of many people so much so that they will not consider him or his message, because for some reason he has become a violation of what is socially acceptable. All classification reduces a person, simplifies a person to the point that they are no longer considered viable partners in a discourse. This reductionism is exactly what pornography has done to the perceptions of many men regarding women in general. Reductionism is exactly what Freud did to religion when he dissected it and made it distasteful in the eyes of science.

The problem is: you don't mean to do any of this. You don't think of welfare moms, trailer-trash, or lazy bums as sub-human, but that is not what others (their heroes) hear.

There is nothing you can do about another's perception. Nothing. Typing in all caps doesn't help (I can't read it--I had to copy and paste your response into Word Perfect and convert it into standard text just to understand you). Getting angry does nothing.

You want to discuss entitlement attitude/addiction? Good; don't name call otherwise you will be dealing with a broken discursive structure and no one will be able to agree on anything and even worse, no one will listen and then label you.

Aaron the Ogre

[CrimsonKairos]

The problem you are running into is a conflict over terminology and the perceptions people have regarding said terminology. It is the words in question, not the attitudes of those who disagree with you.

See, here's the funny thing. I clarified my terminology about three times now. Yet, this is the first time someone's said, "Oh wait a minute! This whole time you weren't judging people based on social class but on attitude? I see, it was irrational to keep talking to you as if you meant something you did not, even though you clarified your position three times."

Okay, so you didn't say exactly those words, but I can always dream, right? B)

This reductionism is exactly what pornography has done to the perceptions of many men regarding women in general. Reductionism is exactly what Freud did to religion when he dissected it and made it distasteful in the eyes of science.

Dude, you're preaching to the choir. I understand all that. Isn't calling someone "lazy" labeling them? If someone's lazy, then calling them lazy is merely pointing out reality. You can't go through life, or even a day, without having to label someone or something. It's when a label is undeserved that it becomes unacceptable to me.

There is nothing you can do about another's perception. Nothing. Typing in all caps doesn't hel.

I dang well can do something about another person's perception. I can correct it. Like I did in this and other threads about three times. This is a shocking position to take...that you can't do anything to change another person's perception. You can just go, "Hey, I didn't mean such-and-such earlier, I really meant this-or-that." Simple, no? Hence my frustration and resorting to caps lock to see if that would register when plain 'ole English in lower-case wasn't getting through.

(I can't read it--I had to copy and paste your response into Word Perfect and convert it into standard text just to understand you).

This cracked me up. Hahaha, sorry.

...don't name call otherwise...no one will be able to agree on anything and even worse, no one will listen and then label you.

Label away. Isn't saying, "Bob sure is lazy," name-calling? Isn't saying, "Sue is such a tightwad," labeling? It's part of life. We all do it. Any time you apply an adjective to someone else you are labeling them, or name-calling, or whatever. Try going a day without using adjectives and then we'll talk. B)

Aaron the Ogre

What kind of ogre are you? Hill, cave, or mountain? I prefer cave ogres, personally.

[Guest Yediyd]

WOW!!!...Emma...

I think the reason I "abandoned" you, as you percieve is because I saw CK's point the first time he ordered the stake...I understood that he was not being mean or judgmental in what he said...so I tried to drop it as I advised you to do when we talked about it on the phone...argueing about it over and over only causes annimosity and gets on everybodies nerves.

I am still your friend, Emma...I just got tired of this tit for tating and I like CK and Six as well. I just want to get along up here...

I'm sorry</span> if you percieved that as "abandoning you"

...Sooooo....how 'bout voting for ME for president?

JK.

BTW...I see your point, too...and Ogre's. I just saw that this disscussion had degenerated into anger and hurt feelings and I wanted to just "Let it go"

Can you understand that? I didn't mean to leave you to fight "Goliath" alone...I just didn't see any reason to fight him.

[Guest Yediyd]

BTW, CK...in Emma's defence...you HAVE to admit...you got a "tad" emotional with that waiter!!!

[CrimsonKairos]

NO I DIDN'T I WAS ONLY...uh...ahem...er...*cough, cough*...No I didn't, I was only trying to make my point.

And Yediyd, in terms of this whole discussion, you are the wisest of us all. We all should've followed your lead awhile ago and just dropped it. I just wanted to make sure people didn't think I judge others based on material possessions or social class.

[FrankJL]

As I read some of these threads, I'm starting to get convinced of one thing..

The amount of postings in a thread is inversely proportional to civility and logic in said postings.

[Snow]

From time to time we like to make fun of other for various reasons. Anciently they did not have the term trailer trash - the closest thing they had was Samaritan. That is what Jesus was called. BTW he said that in as much as you have done it unto the least of his brethren you have done it unto him.

The Traveler.

Hmm, well I certainly wouldn't cast any aspersions on people who live in trailer parks. There are high caliber people and there are low life caliber people and financial status or mobile home preference probably doesn't correlate all that highly with either type.

[Guest Emma Hale Smith]

I understood that he was not being mean or judgmental in what he said.

..

CK has never been mean to me. I've never thought that.

so I tried to drop it as I advised you to do when we talked about it on the phone...argueing about it over and over only causes annimosity and gets on everybodies nerves.

Hmmm....I love the debate, and thought CK and Six did too as they stayed in it. I think we made a big mistake bringing it to this forum.

I apologize to everyone for intruding in the "peacefullness" of the generai discussion forum. I can see now this was the wrong place to bring this thread.

I am still your friend, Emma...I just got tired of this tit for tating and I like CK and Six as well. I just want to get along up here...

Oh, I know you are Yediyd. I just felt very vulnerable for a moment, but it passed. No worries. As far as all getting along, someties people don't always get along, and that's okay. But again, we should have moved the discussion elsewhere.

I'm sorry</span> if you percieved that as "abandoning you"

Oh Yediyd, it wasn't any one person. I was just vulnerable for a moment. I don't think it's possible for me to think you would abandon me. Plese accept my apology for any worry you might have experienced if I made you think that.

...Sooooo....how 'bout voting for ME for president?

Only if I can be Vice President!

Emma

[Guest Yediyd]

LOL!!! I think we would not be friends long if we were to get into politics together, my friend!!!!!!

[Guest Emma Hale Smith]

LOL!!! I think we would not be friends long if we were to get into politics together, my friend!!!!!!

hehehehe. .. . it's called "strategy"

I'd promise to keep my mouth shut and just go to the openings of libraries and such, but once I was in office, my evil doppelganger would take over and I would be the one really running the country!

You know, I think you're right. I'd rather keep you as a friend!, So no vice president. How about an ambassadorship to London?

Love ya,

Emma

[Guest Yediyd]

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LOL!!! I think we would not be friends long if we were to get into politics together, my friend!!!!!!

hehehehe. .. . it's called "strategy"

I'd promise to keep my mouth shut and just go to the openings of libraries and such, but once I was in office, my evil doppelganger would take over and I would be the one really running the country!

You know, I think you're right. I'd rather keep you as a friend!, So no vice president. How about an ambassadorship to London?

Love ya,

Emma LOL!!!!!!!!!!