Are Blacks Desendants Of Cain

[CrimsonKairos]

He used gopher wood and sealed it with bee's wax.

Okay, so I made up the part about the wax, but gopher wood apparently is water-resistant.

[prisonchaplain]

There are enough pseudo-scholars in the world who keep pronouncing that a worldwide flood could be possible that it keeps the faithful content.

Then again, I'd be very surprised if anyone on this board has done enough research to discover why they believe it's possible? (Other than the excuse that God can do anything, etc, etc.)

Anyone?

Somebody did...even put together a book: http://www.amazon.com/Noahs-Flood-Scientif...d/dp/0684810522

Jason, if I accept the Bible as the Word of God--including the Noah story--then, when I read it, I'm not too worried about whether the story is historical or parable. My default for these things is historical. However, I am far more concerned with discerning what God is trying to tell ME. What's the lesson here?

[Guest bizabra]

Noah had 40 years to build a wooden boat.

There was a 40 day tsunami the world over. Think about the recent tsunami catastrophe, then multiply that by 40.

What's complicated about that? B)

BIZ: Did you take a look at some of the essays on the site I posted? If so, you would not have to ask "what's so complicated".

For starters, where did all the water come from for a worldwide tsunami event? No fair using the "water as vapor cloud" arguement, since that doesn't relate to a tsunami event. Not to mention all the worldwide near simultaneous earthquakes that would have to happen to trigger 40 days worth of tsunamis.

Read up on this stuff!

[Jason]

Somebody did...even put together a book: http://www.amazon.com/Noahs-Flood-Scientif...d/dp/0684810522

Course, the Columbia University geologists who authored that book are not claiming there was a world-wide flood, but a regional flood in the black sea area.

A very different story, and one that melds well with others who are talking about a regional flood, not a worldwide one.

Jason, if I accept the Bible as the Word of God--including the Noah story--then, when I read it, I'm not too worried about whether the story is historical or parable. My default for these things is historical. However, I am far more concerned with discerning what God is trying to tell ME. What's the lesson here?

Certainly, even the obvious myths of the Bible can teach us something about ourselves and our relation to God, and there's nothing wrong with that!

Noah had 40 years to build a wooden boat.

Didn't Josephus say he had 120 years to build the ark?

[CrimsonKairos]

Not to mention all the worldwide near simultaneous earthquakes that would have to happen to trigger 40 days worth of tsunamis.

This just in: God can do that.

Didn't Josephus say he had 120 years to build the ark?

My bad, I think that's right. I transposed the number of days it rained with the number of years the people had to repent. Good call bro.

[Guest MrsS]

Noah had 40 years to build a wooden boat.

There was a 40 day tsunami the world over. Think about the recent tsunami catastrophe, then multiply that by 40.

What's complicated about that? B)

Um, i thought it was 100 years to build the ark and preach to the people to repent.

[Jason]

Im not seeing it in Josephus Book 1 chapter 3. Nothing there says how long it took to build the ark. Must have read that somewhere else...

[CrimsonKairos]

I searched high and low for the exact number. I thought I read it in the Bible dictionary but no go. I did find an article from "The Friend" magazine that listed 120 years, but it gave no scriptural reference so "thanks for nothing."

Does anyone have the exact number of years it took Noah to build the ark? Specifically, a source for the information.

[Guest MrsS]

CK, I didn't find any scriptual references, but I did find this:

http://www.gotquestions.org/Noahs-ark-questions.html

Question: "How long did it take Noah to build the ark?"

Answer: How long did it take Noah to build the ark? The Bible does not specifically say how long it took Noah to build the ark. When Noah is first mentioned in Genesis 5:32, he was 500 years old. When Noah entered the ark, he was 600 years old. The time it took to build the ark would depend on how much time had passed between Genesis 5:32 and the time that God commanded Noah to build the ark (Genesis 6:14-21). At the absolute most, it took 100 years.

[belisimo35]

Hello I am in China, and I definately SILLY :)

Interesting,

In our Heavenly Fathes eyes he loves us all, he created us with the many cultures and traditions, I wouldnt even sweat the small stuff, just enjoy the many wonderful cultures that we have here on earth, imagine us all the same, "O MI GOSH", we would be boring, and so over the top about ourselves, Black White, Red Yellow, the garden of Eden had many beautiful coloured flowers, thats what made it so beautiful, the same as we his children.

I am in China, the church not here, but I am here because of the opportunity to do business and share the gospel it is wonderful.

Sister in Christ

[prisonchaplain]

CK, I didn't find any scriptual references, but I did find this:

http://www.gotquestions.org/Noahs-ark-questions.html

Question: "How long did it take Noah to build the ark?"

Answer: How long did it take Noah to build the ark? The Bible does not specifically say how long it took Noah to build the ark. When Noah is first mentioned in Genesis 5:32, he was 500 years old. When Noah entered the ark, he was 600 years old. The time it took to build the ark would depend on how much time had passed between Genesis 5:32 and the time that God commanded Noah to build the ark (Genesis 6:14-21). At the absolute most, it took 100 years.

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia says the Deluge happened when Noah was about 600, but that he was first warned 120 years earlier. So, it seems safe to say somewhere around 100 years (give or take 20). :)

[Guest Yediyd]

That was my impression. Around a hundred years.

[a-train]

We will NOT maintain our race in the resurrection. Joseph Smith said of Moroni: 'Not only was his robe exceedingly white, but his whole person was glorious beyond description, and his countenance truly like lightning. The room was exceedingly light, but not so very bright as immediately around his person. '

As has been discussed elsewhere, in order for us to endure the presence of the Father, we must be transfigured. Both Jesus and Moses, when transfigured before God, took on a change in their appearance described in Exodus 34:29-30:

'And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses’ hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.'

And in Matt. 17:2:

'And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.'

Let us not go too far in our likening the various bodies in the resurrection spoken of by Paul to the races of mortal human beings. Let us also not imagine the various kingdoms of glory to be akin to any caste system.

What we can know of a man by his skin color is little more than his relative melanin level. Aside from maybe extreme albinism, ALL mankind possesses melanin.

In Brigham Young's famous speech given in a joint session of the Utah legeslature, Feb. 5th 1852 he said: 'You talk of the dark skin, I never saw a white man on earth. I have seen persons whose hair came pretty nigh being white, but to talk about white skins it is something entirely unknown, though some skins are fairer than others; look at the black eye and the jet black hair, we often see upon men and women who are called white, there is no such thing as white folks. We are the children of Adam, who receive the blessings, and that is enough for us if we are not quite white.'

Our race, black, brown, red, or white, is only part of this mortal probation.

-a-train

[Guest Emma Hale Smith]

These two are adorable.

Problem solved? :)

Regards,

Emma

[CrimsonKairos]

As a black person once told me, "You need some chocolate chips in the cookie dough." :)

By the way, I refer to them as black because not all people with dark skin are African, American, or African-American. I'm white. I'm not "German-American." B)

[Guest Emma Hale Smith]

By the way, I refer to them as black because not all people with dark skin are African, American, or African-American. I'm white. I'm not "German-American." B)

By the way, I refer to them as people because all people are people, people, or people. I'm people. I'm not alien-people.

Peace out peeps!

Emma

[CrimsonKairos]

By the way, I refer to them as people because all people are people, people, or people. I'm people. I'm not alien-people.

True, but if you don't differentiate between peoples' skin color, why post a link to the article about the bi-racial twins? One baby is darker than the other, or conversely, one baby is whiter than the other.

[Annabelli]

Isn't the controversy about Cain as to whether he was conceived by Satan or Adam? Whether he was conceived of darkness (evil) or the light (good).

[Guest Emma Hale Smith]

True, but if you don't differentiate between peoples' skin color, why post a link to the article about the bi-racial twins? One baby is darker than the other, or conversely, one baby is whiter than the other.

I know. I just did it to make you mad, (it's so easy). That way you'd get huffy and write about the Secret Order of the Cheese-Excreting Ox, fifth degree, through octomember ( loved that word.)

hehehehe

Emma

[musashi]

2 Nephi 5:21 "a sore cursing . . . as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

Alma 3:6 "And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion."

Alma 3:9 "whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed."

3 Nephi 2:14-16 "Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites and . . . became exceedingly fair. . . . "

3 Nephi 19:25, 30 (Disciples) "they were as white as the countenance and also the garments of Jesus; and behold the whiteness thereof did exceed all the whiteness. . . . nothing upon earth so white as the whiteness thereof… and behold they were white, even as Jesus."

this last scripture here might be used to suggest that lds doctrine does teach that there is race in heaven. that is that if we are to become perfect, we will all be white. i don't get it what about the good black members of the church. the seventies and such that exist in africa - why isn't their skin being turned white?

doesn't matter any more?

i was taught in church that black skin wasn't the curse, but just the mark of the curse. this of course wasn't always the way it was taught in the early years, but is the way it is taught now. i never thought i was racist because my best friend when i was a kid was black and since my mission in japan i've had alot to do with asians. so though i don't think i've ever been racist, what i learned at church was that white was the good race. that's one reason why the white raced countries of the west were richer and more advanced - because they were christian.

i'd like to share something intereting i have read a little about, but am in no way expert about. scientists - who by the way do not develop their theories by first seeing what the mormons believe and then trying to prove the opposite of it. they are seekers of truth. research shows that mankind is originally negroid. that white skin is actually a deficiency of melanin pigment, and for a few other reasons whites are actually the most retarded race of all of them.

anyone ever read anything about that?

[wordzee]

Beautifully stated.

We had the privilege of having the most beautiful darker skinned daughter in our home for 4 years. When my mother-in-law made a racial remark, we had a rather heated discussion. She said, "But Joseph saw Christ and He was white." To which I replied, "It's not whether or not He was white, black, or purple that is the problem here, it's your need to make him your color that is the problem."

We are so short sighted in our judgments.

I have not read this entire thread. I'm not assuming that anyone here is prejudice. I'm just sharing a small sampling of what I've dealt with.

Also, I served a mission in North Carolina. I left from San Francisco. I didn't know prejudice existed until I went on my mission.

Again, I love what you've posted. Thanks!

We will NOT maintain our race in the resurrection. Joseph Smith said of Moroni: 'Not only was his robe exceedingly white, but his whole person was glorious beyond description, and his countenance truly like lightning. The room was exceedingly light, but not so very bright as immediately around his person. '

As has been discussed elsewhere, in order for us to endure the presence of the Father, we must be transfigured. Both Jesus and Moses, when transfigured before God, took on a change in their appearance described in Exodus 34:29-30:

'And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses’ hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.'

And in Matt. 17:2:

'And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.'

Let us not go too far in our likening the various bodies in the resurrection spoken of by Paul to the races of mortal human beings. Let us also not imagine the various kingdoms of glory to be akin to any caste system.

What we can know of a man by his skin color is little more than his relative melanin level. Aside from maybe extreme albinism, ALL mankind possesses melanin.

In Brigham Young's famous speech given in a joint session of the Utah legeslature, Feb. 5th 1852 he said: 'You talk of the dark skin, I never saw a white man on earth. I have seen persons whose hair came pretty nigh being white, but to talk about white skins it is something entirely unknown, though some skins are fairer than others; look at the black eye and the jet black hair, we often see upon men and women who are called white, there is no such thing as white folks. We are the children of Adam, who receive the blessings, and that is enough for us if we are not quite white.'

Our race, black, brown, red, or white, is only part of this mortal probation.

-a-train

[CrimsonKairos]

Musashi, I'm truly sorry you were raised in such a messed up ward/s. I've never been taught at home or in Church that whites are richer because they're Christian, or that we're better than blacks. Dude, your upbringing seriously concerns me.

[a-train]

It must be understood that all of mankind receives the blessings and cursings of their parents, but each has his own agency to do with these things what he will. Wealth, poverty, health, sickness, color, build, addiction, property, location, knowledge, ignorance, fast feet, good vision, a thick accent, you name it, we can get it from mom and dad. Whether an individual heirloom is a blessing or a cursing is up to us. Whether we attain more or less of a given thing apart from our parents is also up to us.

We can reject our heritage, we can embrace it, we can build on it, but we cannot receive from our parents what they do not have.

Should any man feel bad because his ancestors were sinners? Does any man have sinless heritage? YES! WE ALL ARE OF THE SAME ROYAL FAMILY OF OUR GOD! WE ARE ALL HIS CHILDREN! But, all of us but Jesus only, are the children of a mortal, sinning father.

No man can say to another: 'Your parents were great sinners and you are therefore subject to serve me, being a descendent of the righteous.'

As Brigham Young said of our first parents who partook of the forbidden fruit, they 'became slaves'. 'This was the first introduction of slavery upon this earth; and there has been not a son or daughter of Adam from that day to this but what were slaves in the true sense of the word.'

Mormon Doctrine, when understood, does nothing but prompt men to love one another and see each other as equal. Those who attempt to claim inequalities, castes, or priviliges among the various people of the earth by some appeal to Mormon teaching do so in vain. God is no respecter of persons.

-a-train

[musashi]

i'm worried about my upbringing too...

to the set the record straight for you i know that stuff isn't official doctrine. but also it is not something just one member said in priesthood or something.

crimson you've never heard anything like that? you know... like stuff like that mankind had kinda come to a stand still, and then there's the quote... something along the lines of everything to be invented has already been invented, but then when joseph smith saw god the heavens were opened and the light bulb went on in mankind's head and they started to invent new things, leading to the advanced society we live in today.

i KNOW that stuff is not doctrinized, don't worry - but you've never heard anything like that, or believe in something similar to that?

[CrimsonKairos]

I guess not.