Looking for deeper meaning in scripture

[Sojourn]

Back in 2010 or so thekabalist posted several Book of Mormon commentaries from a Jewish perspective. I have been trying to find where he described the rules that Jewish scholars use to pierce the depths of deeper meanings hidden in the scriptures that Jews are accustomed to doing. It seems to me that there could be as many as 4 levels, each one with its own characteristic.  All I can remember is that none of the lower levels of meaning could violate the surface meaning.

If anyone has copied that down or has the reverence to that, I would sure like to review it.

Thanks.

[Traveler]

Back in 2010 or so thekabalist posted several Book of Mormon commentaries from a Jewish perspective. I have been trying to find where he described the rules that Jewish scholars use to pierce the depths of deeper meanings hidden in the scriptures that Jews are accustomed to doing. It seems to me that there could be as many as 4 levels, each one with its own characteristic.  All I can remember is that none of the lower levels of meaning could violate the surface meaning.

If anyone has copied that down or has the reverence to that, I would sure like to review it.

Thanks.

 

If you have questions about Jewish customs or teachings - I suggest you contact a local Rabbi.  I find them most helpful and willing to provide information.

[Sojourn]

Thanks Traveler, I didn't think of that.

[Average Joe]

There are many levels and patterns in the BoM: the straight forward read, the 7 days of creation patterns, Solomon's temple prayer pattern, the temple pattern, the 3 degrees of glory pattern...if you want to draw closer to God fasting & prayer will help guide your scripture study and  scriptural understanding better than trying to apply the Kabalah to the BoM...IMO

Edited May 12, 2015 by Average Joe

[mordorbund]

From TheKabalist's post:

 

 

Plain things taken away: This is expression is very Jewish in its nature. Jewish hermeneutics is called the “Pardes” system which is an acronym for the number of levels in which Scripture is to be interpreted. These are the levels:

Peshat: Literally the “plain” or “simple” meaning of Scripture. This would be the literal reading of the message.

Remez: Literally means “hint”. Think of this as the signs given by small things such as the gematria (numeric value) of the words as well as the number of times a word is repeated or even an alternative spelling done on purpose. These are the keys to messages that require a more profound study than simply reading the plain text.

Drash: Literally means “allegory”. This is when you use a passage of the Bible allegorically to reach a more profound level of meaning. Most of the commentaries to Scripture found in the caves of Qumran are drashic prophecies for example.

Sod: Literally means “secret”. This is the deeper spiritual reality of the text. It is mostly what Kabbalah occupies itself with.

Why is this so important? Because the most basic rule of Jewish hermeneutics is that no interpretation can take away from the Peshat. For example if the Torah says that Moses ordered the burning of the Red Heifer we cannot use the other levels to explain away the fact. In other words “the plain meaning cannot be taken away.” Jewish people have always known that if you “taking away the plain (Peshat)” is the key to heresy.

 

 

 

Additional references: http://lds.net/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1

[Sojourn]

mordorbund - Thank you so much.  I am re-reading Isaiah and I keep thinking of what you just posted, but couldn't remember the details.  Thanks for reminding me.

[Sojourn]

There are many levels and patterns in the BoM: the straight forward read, the 7 days of creation patterns, Solomon's temple prayer pattern, the temple pattern, the 3 degrees of glory pattern...if you want to draw closer to God fasting & prayer will help guide your scripture study and  scriptural understanding better than trying to apply the Kabalah to the BoM...IMO

 

Average Joe - could you direct me to the 3 degrees of glory pattern in the Book of Mormon? Thanks

[Average Joe]

Average Joe - could you direct me to the 3 degrees of glory pattern in the Book of Mormon? Thanks

For one - Celestial: 1 & 2 Nephi, Terrestial: Jacob, Telestial: Enos

[Sojourn]

For one - Celestial: 1 & 2 Nephi, Terrestial: Jacob, Telestial: Enos

 

Thanks for that.

 

The words  Celestial, Terrestrial, Telestial never appears in the BoM. Makes me wonder if the BoM prophets knew of those distinctions.  It seems that the BoM teaches black & white / heaven & hell; the extremes.  It seems that only Joseph Smith had or was permitted to teach the fullness of that understanding of the degrees of glory. Paul mentions them briefly but leaves a lot to be desired.

 

The word Millennium never shows up in the BoM either but in my mind from the time the Lord appeared at the temple in the new world and for a good long time afterwords seems to be an example of a millennial era.  

[Average Joe]

Thanks for that.

 

The words  Celestial, Terrestrial, Telestial never appears in the BoM. Makes me wonder if the BoM prophets knew of those distinctions.  It seems that the BoM teaches black & white / heaven & hell; the extremes.  It seems that only Joseph Smith had or was permitted to teach the fullness of that understanding of the degrees of glory. Paul mentions them briefly but leaves a lot to be desired.

 

The word Millennium never shows up in the BoM either but in my mind from the time the Lord appeared at the temple in the new world and for a good long time afterwords seems to be an example of a millennial era.  

 

There are many things presented in the BoM but not by name. Have you ever read about baptism/salvation for the dead in the BoM? No,right? Read 1 Ne. 21:8-9 and then read footnote A for verse 9. What does it say? 

 

Celestial, terrestrial, and telestial are a pattern the those Books are written in (among other patterns found there). Each book will mention things pertaining to that Kingdom but not the one above it - unless it would also be found in the kingdom. Obviously, that seems less than helpful in that it doesn't explain how the patterns are presented in those books. I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I pointed out where and followed the Lord's admonition to Oliver Cowdery:

 

D&C 9:7-9  Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me. But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right. But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; 

 

I'll work with you but if you truly want to learn it always takes prayer and study. And I'd say your correct about the Nephites living a "millennial" lifestyle "after the manner of happiness" following the Savior's appearance.  

Edited May 16, 2015 by Average Joe