Did Joseph Say This

[cke7867]

I frequent a wrestling message board called www.thematforums.com Feel free to visit, but be careful about posting. I know the personalities of the various characters and I'm playing it right. I have had a lot of success answering honest questions from people about our religion on the Non-Wrestling Topics Section of the boards.

Here is my question:

Did Joseph Smith say: "having multiple wives is the way to heaven?"

If he said "celestial marriage is the way to heaven", I feel confident in answering the question. If he said "plural marriage is the way to heaven" or something that directly references poligamy, I'm not sure how to address it.

[Doctor Steuss]

I just searched my "archives" and I couldn't find any LDS leader who has said "having multiple wives is the way to heaven." Did someone on the other message board claim Joseph said this? If they did, I'd ask them to provide a source (so that if [and from my perspective, it's a big "if"] the quote is accurate, you can read it in context).

[CrimsonKairos]

Even if he did say that, it might have been context-sensitive. As in, he might have been speaking to a small gathering of brethren commanded to live polygamy, and he might have been explaining that for them who had received the command, polygamy was the way to heaven as rejection would constitute disobedience.

These anti-mormons are so utterly pathetic.

[Snow]

Here is my question:

Did Joseph Smith say: "having multiple wives is the way to heaven?"

Source please.

[Elphaba]

<div class='quotemain'>

Here is my question:

Did Joseph Smith say: "having multiple wives is the way to heaven?"

Source please.

Why should he give you a source? He's asking us for the source.

Elphaba

[Guest Sono_hito]

The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessings offered unto them, and they refused to accept them.

Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, p.268 - p.269, Brigham Young, August 19, 1866

Some quietly listen to those who speak against the Lord's servants, against his anointed, against the plurality of wives, and against almost every principle that God has revealed. Such persons have half-a-dozen devils with them all the time. You might as well deny "Mormonism," and turn away from it, as to oppose the plurality of wives. Let the Presidency of this Church, and the Twelve Apostles, and all the authorities unite and say with one voice that they will oppose that doctrine, and the whole of them would be damned. What are you opposing it for? It is a principle that God has revealed for the salvation of the human family. He revealed it to Joseph the Prophet in this our dispensation; and that which he revealed he designs to have carried out by his people.

Journal of Discourses, Vol.5, p.204 - p.205, Heber C. Kimball, October 12, 1856

I speak of plurality of wives as one of the most holy principles that God ever revealed to man, and all those who exercise an influence against it, unto whom it is taught, man or woman will be damned, and they and all who will be influenced by them, will suffer the buffetings of Satan in the flesh; for the curse of God will be upon them, and poverty, and distress, and vexation of spirit will be their portion; while those who honor this and every sacred institution of heaven will shine forth as the stars in the firmament of heaven, and of the increase of their kingdom and glory there shall be no end. This will equally apply to Jew, Gentile, and Mormon, male and female, old and young.

Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, p.211, Heber C. Kimball, April 4, 1866

Now, in relation to the position that we occupy concerning plurality, or, as it is termed, polygamy it differs from that of others. I have noticed the usage of several nations regarding marriage; but, as I have said, we are not indebted to any of them for our religion, nor for our ideas of marriage, they came from God. Where did this commandment come from in relation to polygamy? It also came from God. It was a revelation given unto Joseph Smith from God, and was made binding upon His servants. When this system was first introduced among this people, it was one of the greatest crosses that ever was taken up by any set of men since the world stood. Joseph Smith told others; he told me, and I can bear witness of it, "that if this principle was not introduced, this Church and kingdom could not proceed." When this commandment was given, it was so far religious, and so far binding upon the Elders of this Church that it was told them if they were not prepared to enter into it, and to stem the torrent of opposition that would come in consequence of it, the keys of the kingdom would be taken from them. When I see any of our people, men or women, opposing a principle of this kind, I have years ago set them down as on the high road to apostacy, (sp) and I do to-day; (sp) I consider them apostates, and not interested in this Church and kingdom. It is so far, then, a religious institution, that it affects my conscience and the consciences of all good men--it is so far religious that it connects itself with time and with eternity. What are the covenants we enter into, and why is it that Joseph Smith said that unless this principle was entered into this kingdom could not proceed? We ought to know the whys and the wherefores in relation to these matters, and understand something about the principle enunciated. These are simply words; we wish to know their signification.

Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, p.221, John Taylor, April. 7, 1866

I heard the revelation on polygamy, and I believe it with all my heart, and I know it is from God -- ... 'Do you think that we shall ever be admitted as a State into the Union without DENYING the principle of POLYGAMY?' IF WE ARE NOT ADMITTED UNTIL THEN, WE SHALL NEVER BE ADMITTED."

Deseret News, October 10, 1866

Yes, it was preached that it was required for entrance to the CK.

[Alaskagain]

Ok, those are quotes from Young, Kimball, and Taylor.

The question was: Did Joseph Smith say it?

[Guest Yediyd]

What is the point? WHO CARES? So, it was preached...maybe it is true...who cares? G-d is not requiring it of us today!!!! Yes, men are still sealed to more than one wife in the Temple...we never denounced poligamy...G-d instituted it and he took it away for the time being...but it was never a sin or evil...READ YOUR BIBLE!!!!!!!

GET OVER IT!!!!!!! YEESH!!!!!! I hope I get to be sealed to one of those Celestial Mormon Priesthood leaders who are looking for exaltation! If I have to be wife number 49, at least I will be in a Celestial marriage, and happy for once!!

Maybe I'll be a sister wife with Elphaba married to Palerider!! Kool!!!!

[Palerider]

What is the point? WHO CARES? So, it was preached...maybe it is true...who cares? G-d is not requiring it of us today!!!! Yes, men are still sealed to more than one wife in the Temple...we never denounced poligamy...G-d instituted it and he took it away for the time being...but it was never a sin or evil...READ YOUR BIBLE!!!!!!!

GET OVER IT!!!!!!! YEESH!!!!!! I hope I get to be sealed to one of those Celestial Mormon Priesthood leaders who are looking for exaltation! If I have to be wife number 49, at least I will be in a Celestial marriage, and happy for once!!

Maybe I'll be a sister wife with Elphaba married to Palerider!! Kool!!!!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......................

[Elphaba]

<div class='quotemain'>

Maybe I'll be a sister wife with Elphaba married to Palerider!! Kool!!!!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......................

Here comes the bride!

hehehehe

Elphie

[Alaskagain]

Just trying to stick to the specific question, Yed. calm down.

[/quote/

Maybe I'll be a sister wife with Elphaba married to Palerider!! Kool!!!!

[Guest Yediyd]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Maybe I'll be a sister wife with Elphaba married to Palerider!! Kool!!!!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......................

Here comes the bride!

hehehehe

Elphie

Be sure to give that lovely kitty of yours to Dr. T before ya come, k?

[Snow]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Here is my question:

Did Joseph Smith say: "having multiple wives is the way to heaven?"

Source please.

Why should he give you a source? He's asking us for the source.

Elphaba

He's the one that said it. He ought to know either where he heard/learned it, or tell us he made it up.

[NDD18]

I frequent a wrestling message board called www.thematforums.com Feel free to visit, but be careful about posting. I know the personalities of the various characters and I'm playing it right. I have had a lot of success answering honest questions from people about our religion on the Non-Wrestling Topics Section of the boards.

Here is my question:

Did Joseph Smith say: "having multiple wives is the way to heaven?"

If he said "celestial marriage is the way to heaven", I feel confident in answering the question. If he said "plural marriage is the way to heaven" or something that directly references poligamy, I'm not sure how to address it.

Not to any of my knowledge. If that statement were true, not many people are going to heaven.

[NDD18]

The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessings offered unto them, and they refused to accept them.

Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, p.268 - p.269, Brigham Young, August 19, 1866

Some quietly listen to those who speak against the Lord's servants, against his anointed, against the plurality of wives, and against almost every principle that God has revealed. Such persons have half-a-dozen devils with them all the time. You might as well deny "Mormonism," and turn away from it, as to oppose the plurality of wives. Let the Presidency of this Church, and the Twelve Apostles, and all the authorities unite and say with one voice that they will oppose that doctrine, and the whole of them would be damned. What are you opposing it for? It is a principle that God has revealed for the salvation of the human family. He revealed it to Joseph the Prophet in this our dispensation; and that which he revealed he designs to have carried out by his people.

Journal of Discourses, Vol.5, p.204 - p.205, Heber C. Kimball, October 12, 1856

I speak of plurality of wives as one of the most holy principles that God ever revealed to man, and all those who exercise an influence against it, unto whom it is taught, man or woman will be damned, and they and all who will be influenced by them, will suffer the buffetings of Satan in the flesh; for the curse of God will be upon them, and poverty, and distress, and vexation of spirit will be their portion; while those who honor this and every sacred institution of heaven will shine forth as the stars in the firmament of heaven, and of the increase of their kingdom and glory there shall be no end. This will equally apply to Jew, Gentile, and Mormon, male and female, old and young.

Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, p.211, Heber C. Kimball, April 4, 1866

Now, in relation to the position that we occupy concerning plurality, or, as it is termed, polygamy it differs from that of others. I have noticed the usage of several nations regarding marriage; but, as I have said, we are not indebted to any of them for our religion, nor for our ideas of marriage, they came from God. Where did this commandment come from in relation to polygamy? It also came from God. It was a revelation given unto Joseph Smith from God, and was made binding upon His servants. When this system was first introduced among this people, it was one of the greatest crosses that ever was taken up by any set of men since the world stood. Joseph Smith told others; he told me, and I can bear witness of it, "that if this principle was not introduced, this Church and kingdom could not proceed." When this commandment was given, it was so far religious, and so far binding upon the Elders of this Church that it was told them if they were not prepared to enter into it, and to stem the torrent of opposition that would come in consequence of it, the keys of the kingdom would be taken from them. When I see any of our people, men or women, opposing a principle of this kind, I have years ago set them down as on the high road to apostacy, (sp) and I do to-day; (sp) I consider them apostates, and not interested in this Church and kingdom. It is so far, then, a religious institution, that it affects my conscience and the consciences of all good men--it is so far religious that it connects itself with time and with eternity. What are the covenants we enter into, and why is it that Joseph Smith said that unless this principle was entered into this kingdom could not proceed? We ought to know the whys and the wherefores in relation to these matters, and understand something about the principle enunciated. These are simply words; we wish to know their signification.

Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, p.221, John Taylor, April. 7, 1866

I heard the revelation on polygamy, and I believe it with all my heart, and I know it is from God -- ... 'Do you think that we shall ever be admitted as a State into the Union without DENYING the principle of POLYGAMY?' IF WE ARE NOT ADMITTED UNTIL THEN, WE SHALL NEVER BE ADMITTED."

Deseret News, October 10, 1866

Yes, it was preached that it was required for entrance to the CK.

Those statements no longer apply to us though. If a member of the Church in 1866 was commanded to enter into polygamy, and did not, he could not enter into the Kingdom of God, because he denied his will. It only applies to them whom it was given to.

Bruce R. McKonkie , said after the 1978 revelation:

".......I have said the same things. . . . All I can say to that is that it is time disbelieving people repented and got in line and believed in a living, modern prophet. Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or President George Q. Cannon or whomsoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world. We get our truth and our light line upon line and precept upon precept. We have now had added a new flood of intelligence and light on this particular subject, and it erases all the darkness, and all the views and all the thoughts of the past. They don't matter any more. It doesn't make a particle of difference what anybody ever said about the Negro matter before the first day of June of this year [1978]. .........."

I think it applies to this as well. Forget about Polygamy.....it's no longer in practice.

[the Ogre]

Maybe I'll be a sister wife with Elphaba married to Palerider!! Kool!!!!

Yed,

You are the reason I came back. That was one of the greatest comments of all times.

You are truely the best!!!

Aaron the Ogre

Bruce R. McKonkie , said after the 1978 revelation:

".......I have said the same things. . . . All I can say to that is that it is time disbelieving people repented and got in line and believed in a living, modern prophet. Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or President George Q. Cannon or whomsoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world. We get our truth and our light line upon line and precept upon precept. We have now had added a new flood of intelligence and light on this particular subject, and it erases all the darkness, and all the views and all the thoughts of the past. They don't matter any more. It doesn't make a particle of difference what anybody ever said about the Negro matter before the first day of June of this year [1978]. .........."

I think it applies to this as well. Forget about Polygamy.....it's no longer in practice.

Amen