Priesthood And Also Inspiration

[musashi]

I'm not a member anymore, so often I look back at when I was a member and wonder what I was thinking at the time. I would like to hear the members opinions about something I experienced, which alot of you will be able to relate with.

After my mission I was called as Exec Sec in my ward which amongst everything else also meant I took part in the Bishopric's meetings where they discussed whatever and handled all the callings in the ward. After talking about possible candidates for callings they would write down all the names on a piece of paper and the nominated person would read out the names on the paper and pray for guidance as to who to call to positions. I think everyone understands what I'm saying.

Anyway, after the prayer it was often the case that they got different impressions. If they got different impressions they usually put it on the shelf for a week and then tried again a week later. Sometimes it would go on for weeks. The other thing was that the Bishop always had the authority to veto anyway, meaning if necessary he could make decisions despite any objection by any of his counsellors.

Looking back on it now, I think that they weren't getting any inspiration at all. If they were getting inspiration from God wouldn't they all get the same answer from the prayer? I know that there were times that they got the same answer ~ but their reason was that they felt fine about so and so, or that they had no problems with that particular person.

In short, again, I don't think they were getting any answer from God at all, just listening to their feelings.

It reminds me also of my patriarchal blessing which I was so excited to receive when I was a young boy. A glimpse into the future of what I could expect if I was faithful. I can remember feeling scared to share its contents with my sweetheart years later, because of its sacredness. However I did share it her. She was silent for a moment before telling "Oh my goodness, its like identical to mine. I mean it - Word for word."

Now I'm sure it wasn't word for word, but I don't doubt what she said. At the time I thought it might be some kind of sign from God about her, but now in retrospect I actually think it was because we had the same patriarch and I'm guessing the blessing we got was standard. The blessings that say you will get married in the temple and all that stuff, and then they don't actually happen? Mormons say that whatever you were promised will happen, it might not be in this life that's all. I did believe that before, but now I think that the patriarchs guess was wrong and that's all there is to it.

The problem is as members we were always told that the calling came from God, same with the patriarchal blessings. I took it all so seriously, thinking everything was from God. Remembering 1 Nephi 3:7. Now on one hand - thats actually inspiring isn't it :)

But on the other hand, it is clear as crystal that they weren't from God. The mission president's new methods that came from God that actually had a negative effects on the results in the mission. Then his new idea from God, which also didn't work. The gentleman on this site that said the HG told him I was just pretending to be a member, and that I wasn't a real one...That made me laugh so much! My friend feeling the spirit the strongest in his life when his favorite character in the cartoon Dragonball Z turned into a Super-Saiyin.

Anyway - so what is this post about? Really specifically I want to know what you members think of the situation within the bishopric for example, where they pray for revelation, and they get different answers. I suppose I will hear something along the lines of the church is perfect, but people aren't perfect. Any comments please

[Alaskagain]

I suppose I will hear something along the lines of the church is perfect, but people aren't perfect.

Well, no, that isn't what I was going to say. The part I will comment on is:

. . . I took part in the Bishopric's meetings where they discussed whatever and handled all the callings in the ward. After talking about possible candidates for callings they would write down all the names on a piece of paper and the nominated person would read out the names on the paper and pray for guidance as to who to call to positions. I think everyone understands what I'm saying.

Anyway, after the prayer it was often the case that they got different impressions. If they got different impressions they usually put it on the shelf for a week and then tried again a week later. Sometimes it would go on for weeks. . . .

Looking back on it now, I think that they weren't getting any inspiration at all. If they were getting inspiration from God wouldn't they all get the same answer from the prayer?

(Keeping in mind that I have never been a member of the Bishopric)

They have a list of names of say 8 people who are considered for a particular calling. Say Nursery Leader. Say all 8 are TR holders with children. Say none of them have any particular challenge in their life at the current time that would prevent them from carrying out the duties of a Nursery Leader. Say none of the children who will be in Nursery have any particular challenge that would require out of the ordinary skills.

So after consideration, one has the impression of a name, and another has the impression of another name. Couldn't it be possible that both are equally worthy of the calling? Maybe for this particular year of Nursery, it really doesn't matter for HF's purposes which one of the two fulfills the calling? In another week, maybe one of them will be considered for a different calling, and the one remaining receives the calling purely by elimination. There is nothing wrong in that.

[the Ogre]

Musashi,

I was an exec in a BYU Ward (BYU Asian Ward 1990-1992) when I reactivated and our Bishopric didn't even pray about it. As far as I could tell at the beginning of fall semester, the bishop gave out callings on a lottery basis as he didn't even know half the people in the ward.

When I was a Sunday School President the bishop always called those I recommended and I didn't pray, I just guessed they would like to do it or had the gumption and perseverance to handle the 12-14 year olds or patience to deal with sister so-and-so whose answers were always masked attempts to look down at some other member of the ward.

On the patriarchal blessing bit, me and three of my five brothers went in on the same day and although the wording wasn't exactly the same (and we did compare because we were a bunch of rotten little twerps), they said the same stuff with only slight variation (I didn't go on a mission like my blessing said I would--I was a drunk instead--but my brothers did).

I don't know what to tell you. I don't know if there is some type of SOP regarding church processes like this unlike what goes on in the temple or how the church excommunicates people.

Sorry if I wasn't a bigger help. I liked your post very much and appreciate the sincerety of your question, but I'm just one of those members where it is good that the church is true. My whole life, I've been a kind of dipstick.

Aaron the Ogre

[CrimsonKairos]

Not every calling has only one person who "has to be the one."

Prayers shouldn't go, "Which one is the right one?"

Prayers should go, "I've pondered this list, thought over what I know of these people, and I think person x would do well in this calling. Is this acceptable to thee, God?" At least, that's how I've always called counselors whenever I've been president of a quorum. Hasn't led me wrong.

As for patriarchal blessings...of course there's going to be similarities. The plan of salvation is the same for everyone, so everyone needs to obey, serve, pray, study, love others, etc... and hopefully one day we'll dwell with God. There's nothing strange about exhortations or promises concerning those things appearing in multiple blessings even from the same patriarch.

If your point is that the patriarch was making it up and there's no priesthood authority because the blessings were similar with your wife and you...dude, that's a really limited view. If that's your touchstone for truth, I feel sorry for you. Seriously.

[musashi]

Ah ok... Thanks guys. I still feel that even if more than one person was worthy of a calling, that God wouldn't tell one member of the bishopric one thing, and one another thing. I don't see the point in that - but thanks for your posts.

[Gabelma]

Ah ok... Thanks guys. I still feel that even if more than one person was worthy of a calling, that God wouldn't tell one member of the bishopric one thing, and one another thing. I don't see the point in that - but thanks for your posts.

Ok this is just going by the way I receive personal revelation or when I have the keys to a calling, but when you get the impression that both is correct then you just go with personal preference, so it is entirely possible for the Bishophric to all have different preference. Which is why the Bishop or President in a calling needs to have the final say or it could go on for ever lol but then every so often you see someone called and you know that noone else could do the job - our current RS President is the perfect example, personally I would never have picked but God did and by gum noone else could have acheived what she has - she took the worlds most miserable Relief Society and has turned it into the organisation it should be, when she was called I just knew that she was right even though I had fallen out with her not long before that. She was an inspired choice and noone else could have done that job.

Charley

[kiwibabee]

I sometimes feel that some callings are desperation not inspiration.

When my oldest child was in nursery and I had just had my son they called me into nursery.

I hated that calling, and I now hate being in any primary calling, I am now primary secretary and I still struggle in there. I have asked to be released but to no avail. But I don't let that get in the way of my testimony.

As for your patriarchal blessings being similar, I think sometimes patriarch get into a groove and repeat the same thing. But I will say mine is for me there are things in there that pertain to me and there is no way that the patriarch had any knowledge of it.

And then I was witness to my husbands, the patriarch was very old and I think very close to the veil, my husband has extraordinary things in his, the patriarch died soon after.

So I don't know what to tell you about your experiences, If things were so easy to come by even for the bishopric we wouldn't be exercising very much faith that sometimes the lord trusts us on somethings, and any person would do a great job.

[Palerider]

I'm not a member anymore, so often I look back at when I was a member and wonder what I was thinking at the time. I would like to hear the members opinions about something I experienced, which alot of you will be able to relate with.

After my mission I was called as Exec Sec in my ward which amongst everything else also meant I took part in the Bishopric's meetings where they discussed whatever and handled all the callings in the ward. After talking about possible candidates for callings they would write down all the names on a piece of paper and the nominated person would read out the names on the paper and pray for guidance as to who to call to positions. I think everyone understands what I'm saying.

Anyway, after the prayer it was often the case that they got different impressions. If they got different impressions they usually put it on the shelf for a week and then tried again a week later. Sometimes it would go on for weeks. The other thing was that the Bishop always had the authority to veto anyway, meaning if necessary he could make decisions despite any objection by any of his counsellors.

Looking back on it now, I think that they weren't getting any inspiration at all. If they were getting inspiration from God wouldn't they all get the same answer from the prayer? I know that there were times that they got the same answer ~ but their reason was that they felt fine about so and so, or that they had no problems with that particular person.

In short, again, I don't think they were getting any answer from God at all, just listening to their feelings.

It reminds me also of my patriarchal blessing which I was so excited to receive when I was a young boy. A glimpse into the future of what I could expect if I was faithful. I can remember feeling scared to share its contents with my sweetheart years later, because of its sacredness. However I did share it her. She was silent for a moment before telling "Oh my goodness, its like identical to mine. I mean it - Word for word."

Now I'm sure it wasn't word for word, but I don't doubt what she said. At the time I thought it might be some kind of sign from God about her, but now in retrospect I actually think it was because we had the same patriarch and I'm guessing the blessing we got was standard. The blessings that say you will get married in the temple and all that stuff, and then they don't actually happen? Mormons say that whatever you were promised will happen, it might not be in this life that's all. I did believe that before, but now I think that the patriarchs guess was wrong and that's all there is to it.

The problem is as members we were always told that the calling came from God, same with the patriarchal blessings. I took it all so seriously, thinking everything was from God. Remembering 1 Nephi 3:7. Now on one hand - thats actually inspiring isn't it :)

But on the other hand, it is clear as crystal that they weren't from God. The mission president's new methods that came from God that actually had a negative effects on the results in the mission. Then his new idea from God, which also didn't work. The gentleman on this site that said the HG told him I was just pretending to be a member, and that I wasn't a real one...That made me laugh so much! My friend feeling the spirit the strongest in his life when his favorite character in the cartoon Dragonball Z turned into a Super-Saiyin.

Anyway - so what is this post about? Really specifically I want to know what you members think of the situation within the bishopric for example, where they pray for revelation, and they get different answers. I suppose I will hear something along the lines of the church is perfect, but people aren't perfect. Any comments please

are these the reasons you are no longer a member....or did you feel the way you just mentioned after the fact......

[Guest Yediyd]

Before I converted to LDS, I spent years searching the scriptures, reading and memorizing...I read many books about old Testament times and New Testament times...I read and listened to: Josephus, John Fox. Tindale, Moody, Tindale, Spurgen, Bunyan, Dr. Dobson, Lester Rolloff, J. Vernon McGee...and Many others... I spent my whole adult life in some sort of church or another...searching....ever searching....

...My point is: I never told this patriarch any of this, I was a new member...I met him, shook his hand and 5 min. later...he gave me a blessing. In that blessing he mentioned that I had searched and studied for many years!!! I was SHOCKED!!! I never told him that!!! He also said that I would be a teacher in the church and that I would share my testimony with many within and with out the kingdom...well, I teach Sunday school now and my testimony is on about 5 different boards out here in computer land....that was years before I got this computer...during my, "I hate all computer days." (long story attached to that...basically...the computer in my married home was the other woman to me and I could not compete with a machine...I grew to hate computers...I just got this new computer 8 years after leaving my husband)

...again, my point is: I believe that my patriarchal blessing was of G-d, not a feeble old man.

[the_jason]

Palerider probably has more knowledge about this than I do, but I'm pretty sure the bishop's counselor are not given any keys when they are set apart, meaning they do not receive revelation for the ward. The bishop is the only one in the ward who is entitled to this revelation, hence the different answers among the bishopric. It is important for the counselors to pray about who to call to certain positions, but their role in these circumstances is really to support the bishop and to pray for him to receive the necessary revelation.

As for your patriarchal blessing, your mission president, etc., promises from the Lord generally only happen through obedience. It's quite possible for a person to be blessed that they will be married in the temple, but it is up to them whether it happens. If they are not married in the temple it is because of their own shortcomings, not because the leaders weren't inspired. Such instances are fluent throughout the scriptures. Let's not point the blame on the Lord's chosen and claim they aren't inspired. The blame goes to those of us who are disobedient.

[Doctor Steuss]

[...]

Prayers shouldn't go, "Which one is the right one?"

Prayers should go, "I've pondered this list, thought over what I know of these people, and I think person x would do well in this calling. Is this acceptable to thee, God?" At least, that's how I've always called counselors whenever I've been president of a quorum. Hasn't led me wrong.

[...]

D&C 9:8 illustrates this concept nicely. It also explains how there could be different people coming to different conclusions. There could be several people whom the L-rd sees fit to serve. Often there isn't just one right answer in life.

Also, in my experience, G-d doesn’t always seem to call the qualified. He often qualifies the called.

[sixpacktr]

Palerider probably has more knowledge about this than I do, but I'm pretty sure the bishop's counselor are not given any keys when they are set apart, meaning they do not receive revelation for the ward. The bishop is the only one in the ward who is entitled to this revelation, hence the different answers among the bishopric. It is important for the counselors to pray about who to call to certain positions, but their role in these circumstances is really to support the bishop and to pray for him to receive the necessary revelation.

Exactly. My role as a counselor was to give the Bishop my opinion on what he should do, and then support him in his decision, whatever is was.

I sat in some church courts where I prescribed a course of action as the counselor, and the Bishop went another way. I was of the same exact opinion as the jason: my role is to counsel as best as I could, as often as possible under the inspiration of the Lord, but sometimes as best as I could determine, even in those types of circumstances. So to me this assertion that 3 HPs can all recieve different answers and that shows that the church isn't run by revelation is kind of laughable...

And yes, Virginia, there are callings of desperation. So what?? The call still comes from the Lord, IMHO, as his servant in our ward/branch/stake has extended the call, and we are to accept and grow as best as possible.

[Guest Yediyd]

<div class='quotemain'>

Palerider probably has more knowledge about this than I do, but I'm pretty sure the bishop's counselor are not given any keys when they are set apart, meaning they do not receive revelation for the ward. The bishop is the only one in the ward who is entitled to this revelation, hence the different answers among the bishopric. It is important for the counselors to pray about who to call to certain positions, but their role in these circumstances is really to support the bishop and to pray for him to receive the necessary revelation.

Exactly. My role as a counselor was to give the Bishop my opinion on what he should do, and then support him in his decision, whatever is was.

I sat in some church courts where I prescribed a course of action as the counselor, and the Bishop went another way. I was of the same exact opinion as the jason: my role is to counsel as best as I could, as often as possible under the inspiration of the Lord, but sometimes as best as I could determine, even in those types of circumstances. So to me this assertion that 3 HPs can all recieve different answers and that shows that the church isn't run by revelation is kind of laughable...

And yes, Virginia, there are callings of desperation. So what?? The call still comes from the Lord, IMHO, as his servant in our ward/branch/stake has extended the call, and we are to accept and grow as best as possible.

I am assuming that this Virginia you are speaking to is NOT, yours truly!!!

I agree with you!!!

[sixpacktr]

I am assuming that this Virginia you are speaking to is NOT, yours truly!!!

Yes, Yed,

It was a feeble (very feeble) attempt at being cute with a play on the quote "yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus"...

My kids and I do this a lot. We take movie lines and modify them to fit our conversation. Our favorite, of course, is A Christmas Story, following by anything Simpsons...

We are easily amused!

[Guest Yediyd]

ahhh, seeing that my real name is Virginia...I have heard that "yes Virginia...." Many, many times!!!

I should have recognised it!!!!!