Youtube Apologetics

[cdowis]

Anti == trash talking Joseph Smith.

Perhaps, but much of that is just unfounded gossip, and trash talk.

Yes, he had a seer stone and was a treasure seeker, and ran with bad company. He admitted he had done some foolish things in his youth and prayed for forgiveness.

But like Saul and Peter, the Lord saw past it and called him as a prophet.
He can see things that we cannot see and we should not counsel God.

Edited July 27, 2018 by cdowis

[cdowis]

"The Bible sez...." revised

May I suggest that you read what the Bible says  =>>

2 Peter 1 [20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 
[21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God [prophets} spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 

Eph 4 [11] And *he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets* and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
         [13] *Until  we all come in the unity of the faith* and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 
         [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness,  whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

The Bible says it, I believe it.

The historic Christian church has replaced the apostles and prophets with theologians and philosophers. They debate and argue even over basic salvation doctrine -- grace, free will, baptism, etc. Revelation has been replaced by schools of learning, PhD, and rhetorical skills.

I make note that you are adding words to the Bible and giving your private, personal interpretation.  You then condemn the modern prophets for acting in their callings as prophets, with authority to teach the Gospel, especially when they disagree with the interpretations  of the modern scribes and Pharasees.

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by cdowis

[cdowis]

"Bible inerrant" --  revised

Assuming it is indeed inerrant, but that is moot until we have an inerrant INTERPRETATION of the Bible.

Satan himself quoted the Bible and then Christ provided the inerrant interpretation.  Where do we find that today == from the theologians and scholars who debate even basic salvation questions?

Edited August 8, 2018 by cdowis

[cdowis]

"stone to translate"

Do Christians really understand that Moses used a magical staff (rod). It turned into a snake, just like the staffs of the magicians and then swallowed them.

1. And the LORD spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Stretch forth thine hand with thy rod over the streams, over the rivers, and over the ponds, and cause frogs to come up upon the land of Egypt.
2. And the LORD said unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Stretch out thy rod, and smite the dust of the land, that it may become lice throughout all the land of Egypt.
3. And they did so; for Aaron stretched out his hand with his rod, and smote the dust of the earth, and it became lice in man, and in beast; all the dust of the land became lice throughout all the land of Egypt.

4. And Moses stretched forth his rod toward heaven: and the LORD sent thunder and hail, and the fire ran along upon the ground; and the LORD rained hail upon the land of Egypt.

5. And Moses stretched forth his rod over the land of Egypt, and the LORD brought an east wind upon the land all that day, and all that night; and when it was morning, the east wind brought the locusts.

6. But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea.

7. made water come out of a rock.

Do you really understand what Moses was able to do with that magical rod. And you are complaining about a stone used to translate??

Edited August 9, 2018 by cdowis

[cdowis]

"The nature of God"

This is  beyond the scope of this forum ==>>

Christ said, “it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.” The first and primary question is whether Joseph Smith was called as a prophet and Christ restored His church ==

Heb.5 [12] For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Addition and subtraction before calculus.

Edited October 17, 2018 by cdowis

[cdowis]

Matthew 7:21 -" Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."  

Our mouth will not save us

[cdowis]

There are those who declare that the false  "another gospel" began with the visit of an angel of light -- that our mouth alone will save us.

Paul gave TWO accounts of his vision and contradicted each other. How long afterward was his account written in Acts == many years later.

Go back to the master of deceit and tell him that you have failed miserably. You are talking to a Bible believing Christian.

Edited August 25, 2018 by cdowis

[cdowis]

Book of Abraham criticism

This is not conjecture but scientific proof == the Bible tells us that the Universe was made in seven days, but science tells us that it was billions of years. Proof that Christianity is not true, BY YOUR VERY OWN WORDS AND LOGIC.
You are a friend and supporter of the godless atheists and they thank you.

Here is what Christ says to you and your friends,
Peter gives his testimony of Christ,
then Matt 16 [17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: *for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven*

[cdowis]

NO BOOK OF MORMON MAPS

Yes, we see the maps of locations in the Bible on maps. Now what? Well, the written records of mesoamerica were systematically destroyed by the Spanish invaders. In fact that we do not know even the NAMES of the ancient cities that archaeologists have excavated. They have given them modern names, unlike the Bible where there is an abundance of ancient written records which tell us where Jerusalem, etc are located. But over the past decades we have been able to preliminary identifications of certain Book of Mormon locations based on descriptions in the text. The scholars are NOT speechless by this question and several books have been written on this very subject Lawrence Poulsens 2008 conference address on Book of Mormon geography https://youtu.be/knw0pl8Ifsc?t=12m15s

 

See the position of the church on Book of Mormon geography https://youtu.be/qIleo2RoEqE?t=1m10s

 

Archaeologist John Clark, in his 2005 FAIR Conference address, makes several parallels between The Book of Mormon and Mesoamerica. He goes over stone boxes, ancient writing, warfare, fortifications, cities, cement, BOM and Mesoamerican art similarities, and Calendar. https://youtu.be/IzkiBtLrmo8

 

 

 

 

REPLY

[cdowis]

Which gospel should the missionaries be teaching?  
Catholic -- baptizing infants, , Baptists -- baptism is optional, Calvinism -- predestination, TV preachers -- gospel of prosperity,  Pentecostals -- slain in the spirit?

[cdowis]

talisman ==>>

The only source of evidence that claims Joseph Smith had the Jupiter Talisman on his person is Charles Bidamon, made long after the death of Joseph and Emma

Bidamon waited fifty-eight years after Emma’s death to make his certification, and notes that at the time of her death he was only fifteen years old.

Anderson noted that Bidamon waited fifty-eight years after Emma’s death to make his certification, and notes that at the time of her death he was only fifteen years old.

 

The list of items in Joseph's possession at the time of his death did not list the talisman among them

In 1984, Anderson located and published the itemized list of the contents of Joseph Smith's pockets at his death. The list was originally published in 1885 in Iowa by James W. Woods, Smith's lawyer, who collected the prophet's personal effects after the Martyrdom. The contents from the published 1885 printing are as follows:

Received, Nauvoo, Illinois, July 2, 1844, of James W. Woods, one hundred and thirty- five dollars and fifty cents in gold and silver and receipt for shroud, one gold finger ring, one gold pen and pencil case, one penknife, one pair of tweezers, one silk and one leather purse, one small pocket wallet containing a note of John P. Green for $50, and a receipt of Heber C. Kimball for a note of hand on Ellen M. Saunders for one thousand dollars, as the property of Joseph Smith. - Emma Smith.^[4]:558[6]

No Talisman or item like it is listed.

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Joseph_Smith/Occultism_and_magic/Jupiter_talisman#Question:_What_is_the_source_of_the_story_about_Joseph_Smith_possessing_a_Jupiter_talisman.3F

 

Edited September 3, 2018 by cdowis

[cdowis]

In the July/August 2018 edition of "Biblical Archaeology Review" on page 33, is an article "Egyptian Papyrus Sheds New Light on Jewish History." The author is Karel van der Toorn. The article is about a papyrus roll discovered in the late 19th century at Luxor (ancient Thebes). It took more than 120 years to decipher the text. It was discovered that Egyptian Demotic script had been used to write Aramaic text! The translation turned out to be three Israelite psalms written about 400BC.

This appears to be an example of "Reformed Egyptian" used by Israelites and discovered by non-Mormons!!

[cdowis]

Actually the Book of Mormon was translated into Early Modern English, which is almost a century earlier than the Jacobean of the KJV.  This is a detailed analysis  of the English dialect of the BOM which lead to the claim of "grammatical errors" in the text -- the so called 4000 corrections

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by cdowis

[cdowis]

Was Joseph a criminal? Decide for yourself.

Facts about the 1826 trial
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/1826Trial/facts.html

Detailed historical documentation of Joseph Smith and the law
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD2AYBYuw4E&list=PLssrZLbbAAOcDPkAskQFW2agfvwk7cNLz

[cdowis]

BOM problems

 

Quantum mechanics, the foundation of modern physics, also has many unresolved problems. If you think the BOM has problems, try to wrap your mind around entangled particles. A

nyway, I think most of them have been resolved, and mostly an issue of the "not found, not exist" fallacy, and that our friends the Spanish destroyed virtually all the written records.

Have you read the book "Mormon's Codex" by Sorenson? Lots of footnotes.

[cdowis]

 Let's be clear--"Mormons" really are Christian--they just don't believe in the doctrine of the "Holy Trinity" outlined by the Councils of Nicea in the 4th and 5th centuries, about which the Harper’s Bible Dictionary records: “The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the [New Testament].”

This talk given by one of its apostles makes very clear the Mormon church's Christianity:
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2007/10/the-only-true-god-and-jesus-christ-whom-he-hath-sent?lang=eng

[cdowis]

Humanitarian Aid

 

“Over the past three decades, the Church and its members have given more than $2 billion in assistance to people in 195 countries and territories,” Elder Christofferson reported.

 

“Last year alone we worked with more than 1,800 partners in 139 countries and territories on more than 2,700 humanitarian projects that served millions of people,” he added.

 

Elder Christofferson said the Church responds to natural disasters by rushing hygiene kits, food, water and volunteers to stricken areas. Recent examples include the earthquakes in Mexico, hurricanes in the Caribbean and typhoons in the Philippines.

 

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/elder-christofferson-participates-g20-interfaith-forum-argentina

[cdowis]

One of the tactics that critics have used recently to try to destroy faith is to describe a lesser known event in church history in a way that is intended to shock the reader. By sensationalizing and removing it from its context, and often even misrepresenting what actually happened, the victim is left feeling betrayed by the Church, thinking they have been lied to.
 
The first volume of a projected four-volume series has now been published  covering  the period preceding the First Vision up to two years after the death of Joseph Smith, when the Saints were able to receive the endowment in the Nauvoo Temple. It covers nearly every criticism and puts them in their proper context, where they can be more easily understood. It concentrates on telling stories of the actual men and women involved, rather than just the institutional church, as previous official histories produced by the Church have done. The result is a detailed history of the Church that includes the sensitive issues .

https://www.amazon.com/Saints-Church-Christ-Standard-1815-1846-ebook/dp/B07FDPJ7MZ/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1538191391&sr=1-1&keywords=saints+the+story+of+the+church+of+jesus+christ+in+the+latter+days

Edited September 29, 2018 by cdowis

[Guest]

15 hours ago, cdowis said:

Humanitarian Aid

 

“Over the past three decades, the Church and its members have given more than $2 billion in assistance to people in 195 countries and territories,” Elder Christofferson reported.

 

“Last year alone we worked with more than 1,800 partners in 139 countries and territories on more than 2,700 humanitarian projects that served millions of people,” he added.

 

Elder Christofferson said the Church responds to natural disasters by rushing hygiene kits, food, water and volunteers to stricken areas. Recent examples include the earthquakes in Mexico, hurricanes in the Caribbean and typhoons in the Philippines.

 

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/elder-christofferson-participates-g20-interfaith-forum-argentina

You know, I had a somewhat hostile investigator ask me what good churches actually do.  I spoke of humanitarian aid to many countries.  She then complained that we should be more worried about aid to our own nation (there was a bit of a slowdown in the economy at the time) before we give money to other nations.

She was a Democrat.  But I'm wondering if she voted for Trump this last go around.

[cdowis]

In the church, being gay is not a sin, but doing gay. Sexual immorality is an equal sin, gay or straight.

[cdowis]

A cult?

The NAACP does not see the cit as a cult.  Church leader gives a speech

Mormon Apostle Addresses All-Party Parliamentary Group in UK House of Lords

 

[cdowis]

Evolution only a theory?

 

Gravity and relativity have been proven experimentally , or predictions by direct observation==== and certain limited aspects of evolution, as well.

But it is similar to motor scooter tasked to carry a ten ton load. There is a vast landscape of phenomena with no explanation on the horizon.

 

[cdowis]

We believe what he actually said -- In the resurrection (after they have died), they cannot marry (no marrying ceremony in the spirit world) nor be given in marriage. He does NOT say, "They are not married"

This eternal marriage can only be performed on earth by one having the key of authority from the Lord.. As Christ said to Peter, Matt.16 [19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and *whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven* and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

In the example given, none of the marriages were sealed by authority, so she did not have an eternal marriage.

[cdowis]

>>Joseph Smith lied

Abraham was Gods prophet and Pharaoh of Egypt was going to kill him if he admitted Sara was his wife. Abraham lied to Pharaoh and told him Sara was his sister and God stood behind Abraham and delivered him from Pharaoh .

 

[Vort]

53 minutes ago, cdowis said:

>>Joseph Smith lied

Abraham was Gods prophet and Pharaoh of Egypt was going to kill him if he admitted Sara was his wife. Abraham lied to Pharaoh and told him Sara was his sister and God stood behind Abraham and delivered him from Pharaoh .

Sarah was Abraham's half-sister. It was no lie, though it was a deception of sorts.