Jojo Bags Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) Of 735 respondents self-identifying as BYU students, 30 percent said they would vote for democratic socialist Vermont senator * * * if the general presidential election took place today. Florida Republican senator came in second at 20 percent. The poll was open from Monday, Feb. 8 through Monday, Feb. 15, and has a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percent. Read more here: http://universe.byu.edu/2016/02/19/feel-the-bern-poll-shows-byu-students-prefer-socialist-sanders/ http://uwire.com/2016/02/20/feel-the-bern-poll-shows-byu-students-prefer-socialist-sanders/ Quote Satan’s plan seems to be working to perfection among the Latter-day Saints today. I discover that almost without exception, the students here at the B.Y.U. believe in the 10 points of the Communist Manifesto either in whole or in part. This in spite of the fact that our modern prophets have identified communism as being diametrically opposed to everything for which the Church stands (See President McKay’s statement of the position of the Church on communism, April, 1966) and that it is Satan’s plan. Elder H. Verlan Andersen http://www.mormonchronicle.com/exclusive-elder-h-verlan-andersen-on-apostasy-of-the-church-members/ Edited March 11, 2016 by Jojo Bags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) Would you prefer they vote for Trump or Hillary??? FeeltheBern Edited March 11, 2016 by LiterateParakeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Before this thread is deleted for the obvious reasons, I just want to say that there is an ocean of differences between communism and democratic socialism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 15 minutes ago, Godless said: Before this thread is deleted for the obvious reasons, I just want to say that there is an ocean of differences between communism and democratic socialism. Pam has given us a small leash to discuss politics, even current candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 WHAT?!?! How did I miss that?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Godless said: Before this thread is deleted for the obvious reasons, I just want to say that there is an ocean of differences between communism and democratic socialism. This thread won't be deleted, and I just want to say that there is no ocean of difference. More like a shallow pond. "Democratic socialism" is a contradiction in terms. Don't believe me? Just look at Europe, the very flower of "democratic socialism". LeSellers and Jojo Bags 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 The poll was so badly done that it's a laugh. I sincerely hope no one outside the BYU Journalism department was associated with such a poorly done poll. My son at BYU doubts that any 30% of BYU students are pro-Sanders. Perhaps 20% or less, according to him. This same son has been watching the Democrat "debates" in disbelief. He tells me that if he had to choose between Clinton and Sanders, that there is no choice. Clinton may be corrupt right to her dark core, but she is intelligent. Sanders is utterly, embarrassingly clueless. My son is living proof that there is hope for the rising generation. nbent412 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 2 hours ago, Godless said: there is an ocean of differences between communism and democratic socialism. How so? Lehi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 24 minutes ago, Vort said: The poll was so badly done that it's a laugh. I sincerely hope no one outside the BYU Journalism department was associated with such a poorly done poll. My son at BYU doubts that any 30% of BYU students are pro-Sanders. Perhaps 20% or less, according to him. This same son has been watching the Democrat "debates" in disbelief. He tells me that if he had to choose between Clinton and Sanders, that there is no choice. Clinton may be corrupt right to her dark core, but she is intelligent. Sanders is utterly, embarrassingly clueless. My son is living proof that there is hope for the rising generation. I'd gladly take Sanders over Clinton. Cluelessness surrounded by advisors scares me less than intelligent corruption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 9 minutes ago, unixknight said: I'd gladly take Sanders over Clinton. Me too! And Trump is not an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 40 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said: Me too! And Trump is not an option. Now my soul hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 14 minutes ago, unixknight said: Now my soul hurts. SMH, I really thought only uneducated people supported him. I just lost any respect I had for Carson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, LeSellers said: How so? Lehi http://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Socialism There are subtle yet important differences. Both aren't ideologies you'd want to live under. Look at Venezuela and Greece. The brilliant chess player Kasparov said it best "Having lived under communism and socialism, I refuse to be lectured by anyone on it's beauties." Edited March 11, 2016 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) My impression is in a system that follows democratic socialism, sooner or later the majority realizes that work is a sucker's game. At that point you start seeing the producers withdrawing into what has been called "Irish democracy", or "going Galt"--described by James Scott as "the silent, dogged resistance, withdrawal, and truculence of millions of ordinary people." The government then responds by implementing full-bore communism in order to keep the producers in line; and you wind up with a game of cat-and-mouse between the government and the producers until you reach economic collapse, a violent revolution, or both. Edited March 11, 2016 by Just_A_Guy unixknight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Even if Bernie became Pres., he won't be able to put in place his socialist ideas, because we still have checks and balances. We still live in a Democratic Republic. So while I am not a fan of socialism....when the other choices are Hillary and Trump...I'm supporting Bernie. I just learned that he was one of the few who opposed the Patriot Act. And opposed the renewal of it. That is important to me. If you don't like Bernie, fine I get it. But I'm curious who are you planning to vote for Hillary or Trump? It's not looking like the other Rep. Candidates have a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Choosing between Trump and Sanders, I will hold my nose and vote for Trump. Sanders is an idiot. Maybe a friendly enough man, I don't know, but terrifyingly stupid. Jojo Bags 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 36 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said: If you don't like Bernie, fine I get it. But I'm curious who are you planning to vote for Hillary or Trump? It's not looking like the other Rep. Candidates have a chance. I like to believe Cruz still has a chance, and he'd be my pick. Otherwise, I vote Libertarian. No way will I cast a vote for Trump. mordorbund, LeSellers and Just_A_Guy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Vort said: Choosing between Trump and Sanders, I will hold my nose and vote for Trump. Sanders is an idiot. Maybe a friendly enough man, I don't know, but terrifyingly stupid. According to his long-time staff, friends, and others who've known him for centuries (okeh, decades), he's not a friendly man. Quite the opposite, as I've heard it: “He’s like a stealth politician because people think he’s just this guy who has super-liberal, i.e., socialist tendencies, but at the same time he is a brutally successful political knife-fighter,” Mr. [Harry] Jaffe said. “He doesn’t get elected because he’s a nice guy.” Harry Jaffe is an editor at large for Washingtonian magazine who's written an unauthorized bio on Sanders. Lehi Edited March 11, 2016 by LeSellers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 1 hour ago, LiterateParakeet said: It's not looking like the other Rep. Candidates have a chance. That's because the media want it to look that way. Trump has only 18.5% of available delegates. Cruz has 14.5%. Rubio has 6.1%. If people would quit splitting between the rest, all three of these have a reasonable chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 10 minutes ago, zil said: That's because the media want it to look that way. Trump has only 18.5% of available delegates. Cruz has 14.5%. Rubio has 6.1%. If people would quit splitting between the rest, all three of these have a reasonable chance. Good to know. I was under the impression he has been winning the primaries so far...Cruz or Rubio would be good choices. Not my choice, but certainly reasonable choices. So why in the world did Carson endorse Trump? I seriously don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 I agree with Unixknight. If Trump can be prevented from getting a majority of delegates, my thinking has been that Cruz can unite the Rubio and Kasich followings at convention (I am less confident of this following Ben Carson's endorsement--seriously, Ben, what were you thinking?). In any event--I see Trump as the second coming of Kaiser Wilhelm II; his ego will get us into stupid wars that will get Americans killed. On top of that, he's just plain a bad guy; and if he gets the nomination I will probably vote libertarian. Looking at the folks Bernie has palled around with and expressed admiration for (Castro, the Sandanistas, Eugene Debs), I think it's clear that the guy is a kleptocrat and not above implementing kleptocracy at gunpoint. I no longer trust our congress/judiciary's ability to keep such a president in check. unixknight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 7 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said: Good to know. I was under the impression he has been winning the primaries so far...Cruz or Rubio would be good choices. Not my choice, but certainly reasonable choices. So why in the world did Carson endorse Trump? I seriously don't get it. I cannot begin to guess why Carson would endorse Trump. It makes me think my original judgement of Carson was wrong. Meanwhile, we'll see if this works. Attached is a graphic of a spreadsheet my brother is maintaining as the primaries occur. While Trump has won the most and has the highest percentages, there are still more than enough delegates for someone else to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) 33 minutes ago, LeSellers said: According to his long-time staff, friends, and others who've known him for centuries (okeh, decades), he's not a friendly man. Quite the opposite, as I've heard it: “He’s like a stealth politician because people think he’s just this guy who has super-liberal, i.e., socialist tendencies, but at the same time he is a brutally successful political knife-fighter,” Mr. [Harry] Jaffe said. “He doesn’t get elected because he’s a nice guy.” Good. I'm not looking to vote for Mr. Rogers. I think anyone crazy enough to run for public office has to be tough. Edited March 11, 2016 by LiterateParakeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) One other observation: Watching the expression on Trump's face during the debates as any other candidate spoke, I got the distinct impression that he was thinking: If we were back in Manhattan right now, which of my goons would I hire to go whack this guy? Exhibit A: Edited March 11, 2016 by Just_A_Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 14 minutes ago, zil said: I cannot begin to guess why Carson would endorse Trump. It makes me think my original judgement of Carson was wrong. Meanwhile, we'll see if this works. Attached is a graphic of a spreadsheet my brother is maintaining as the primaries occur. While Trump has won the most and has the highest percentages, there are still more than enough delegates for someone else to win. Thanks Zil. That is very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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