Every Republican Presidential Candidate is Hitler

[Guest Godless]

21 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

You take how a politician presents their self to the public, as what matters most to you? 

I'm usually willing to overlook personal quirks and public demeanor in favor of actual policies. Trump has used those so much to the extreme, however, that I feel I have to make an exception.

[Guest MormonGator]

8 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

His classmates writing about their experience with Trump in high school is not valid?  What is more valid than that?

And sure, what he was in high school may not be who he is today.  But, this is in response to you saying he's a High School Bully.  Well, according to his classmates, he wasn't.

1-You implied and or said that no one is class disliked him. That's wrong. With that amount of people, (99+) I am guaranteeing you that someone doesn't like him. 

2-I said he was the high school bully at age 68 or whatever age he is now. He is rude, condescending to those who disagree with him, arrogant , picks fights with those he views as "weaker" and uses name calling. Those attributes are what a bully does. Ergo, he is a high school bully who never grew up. 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

5 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

However, Trump strikes me as disingenuous, condescending, vulgar, and given to vindictiveness. One incident that struck was when he was asked about religious liberty issues, and his response was not a defense of the Constitution, or a recognition of pending issues like whether schools such as BYU will be required to provide housing for married gay students, but rather, "Don't worry, Christians.  I'll protect you."

The bottom line is that I do not trust him to be President.  Sometimes character and demeanor do matter more than policy.

I'm with you PC.  And we are not alone, an article hypothesizing about why Trump has done so poorly in areas highly populated by Mormons says:

Quote

 

Trump is off-putting to Mormons for more predictable reasons as well. His blatant religious illiteracy, his penchant for onstage cursing, his habit of flinging crude insults at women, his less-than-virtuous personal life and widely chronicled marital failures — all of this is anathema to the wholesome, family-first lifestyle that Mormonism promotes. And demographically speaking, Mormons tend to reside outside Trump’s base of support anyway. They have higher-than-average education levels, whereas Trump does best among voters without any college education; they are more likely to be weekly churchgoers, while Trump performs better with Christians who attend services infrequently.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/mormon-voters-really-dont-like-donald-trump-heres-why?utm_term=.qbQMw8DAB#.ag42DG35V

 

 

[anatess2]

12 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

1-You implied and or said that no one is class disliked him. That's wrong. With that amount of people, (99+) I am guaranteeing you that someone doesn't like him. 

2-I said he was the high school bully at age 68 or whatever age he is now. He is rude, condescending to those who disagree with him, arrogant , picks fights with those he views as "weaker" and uses name calling. Those attributes are what a bully does. Ergo, he is a high school bully who never grew up. 

1 - That is not my words.  That was his classmates' words.  I linked it.  You can see for yourself.  It's a Facebook post and many of his classmates posted in the comments.

2 - And I'm telling you he is not a high school bully... at any age.

[Guest MormonGator]

16 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

1 - That is not my words.  That was his classmates' words.  I linked it.  You can see for yourself.  It's a Facebook post and many of his classmates posted in the comments.

2 - And I'm telling you he is not a high school bully... at any age.

What you aren't accepting is that not every single one of his classmates commented. Some are probably deceased, and if everyone likes you-you are either delusional or you are doing something very wrong. 

So his name calling, harassment, lying, slander of innocent people, cheating on both of his wives, using eminent domain to get what he wants, selling "Trump University" as a "legit school" and inability to admit he's wrong isn't bullying?   

Edited March 24, 2016 by MormonGator

[Guest MormonGator]

I want it clear than even though I disagree with Trump vehemently I have nothing against his followers. It's not personal. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by MormonGator

[prisonchaplain]

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

You're hoping for Bill Clinton?  BILL CLINTON?  You think Bill Clinton wears the pants in that family???  Bill Clinton can't moderate Hillary.  Have you seen him lately?

Give me something about Trump that is the 20% difference with Cruz.

And about Vindictiveness - Hillary Clinton trumps ANYBODY on Vindictiveness. 

So, what's his [Trump] ideology?  Whatever makes common sense to him. 

---I edited out a lot so I could respond to main points...see original post for Anatess' context and examples---

Bill was president, so I would imagine that HRC, being an intelligent woman, would look to him for advice--especially on whether something will fly or not.

Trump is a protectionist, he's weak on Israel, and his one flippant example of a Supreme Court nominees was his very pro-choice sister.  Well sure, he back-tracked, said he was kidding, 'cause that would be nepotism.

Trump is vindictive. He's been vulgar and crass towards his opponents, and now he's going after  Cruz's wife with innuendos.

Trump's lack of a moral compass is not pragmatism--it's rudderless. You never know what he's going to do next, because he shoots from the hip. It's not pure common sense. If he's angry at the Chinese this week, then you can be sure that Trump's 'common sense' answer will be something that hurts the PRC--even if it hurts us more.  I'm not the first to suggest that he just does not have the demeanor and temperament to lead this nation.

[prisonchaplain]

On the claim that Trump was had no classmates who were critical, it might be true.  Apparently almost no one at Wharton School of Business, University of Pennsylvania, remembers him.  http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/trending/Donald-Trumps-University-of-Pennsylvania-classmates-apparently-have-no-memory-of-him-whatsoever.html

[Guest Godless]

14 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I will agree with you on this much... he is a TERRIBLE communicator.  He would have been so much better if he would hire speech writers.  His AIPAC speech was a much better-tempered speech that still contained Trumpisms to connect with the crowd.  It's impressive to see a skeptical-of-Trump crowd give him more standing ovations than Cruz who they already know and like.  Hillary, on the other hand, decided to become a Republican.  She even lowered her pitch to counter the media-critique that she sounds screechy.  This made her speech sound like a Catholic Priest reading the Gospel.

Now, I wouldn't say he is deliberately using anger, fear, etc. to drive his popularity.  I've been following this election cycle closely (closer than previous cycles) because this election has some personal impact for me (long story).  To tell you the truth, I don't think Trump is driving his own popularity.  The Trumpsters are driving his popularity.  And they glommed onto Trump rather than Carson (my guy - for much of the same reasons that Trumpsters support Trump) because Trump is impervious to the media whereas Carson is having a hard time getting through.  He is the only one with the ability to go through the media and reach the people.  He is the only one that can blow up the demagoguery plaguing American politics - where if you say "we don't want Illegal Immigrants" or "we're going to police Muslims", you get labeled a xenophobe and if you say "I support law enforcement" you're a racist... or if you say, "I want to punch the guy in the face" you're hateful.

People are angry.  People are fearful.  That's the facts.  And they have every reason to be.  After the people handed over the government to their dyed-in-the-wool favored conservative and still nothing gets done and ISIS continues to march through Europe... the people are looking for a different solution.  Trump rallies are different in that Trump gives voice to the audience.  He allows them to move the rally forward instead of sticking to his own talking points.  This has never been done in the US before.  This happens in the Philippines all the time, so it's not new to me.  The US political campaigns are focus grouped, politically analyzed and stylized complete with handing audiences the questions to give an image of a town hall.  All answers have been previously prepared and focus grouped, etc.  Trump has no political analyst staff, no handlers, no focus groups.  He says what's in his head or what people tell him.  In his clumsy communicator abilities.  But it connects with the people.  Because the people are made part of it.  He doesn't tell people what they should feel, he doesn't tell people what they should think.  He says his piece and you're free to feel and think whatever you want to feel or think about it.  He says it all the time - "this is what I said, this is what I meant... if you took another meaning out of what I said, that's on you, not me."... which, I have to say, I say all the time too.  I get this all the time speaking English that is not my native tongue and having people twist what I say just because I used different words than what they would have used.  So, I get this.

But yes, I do prefer prepared speeches over Trump speeches.  Heck, I write a lot of them!  A lot of thought goes into a campaign stump speech... just to make sure nobody can use snippets of it to torpedo your campaign!  So, you kinda do it like how the Bible does it... you tell them what you're gonna say, then you say what you're gonna say, then you tell them what you just said.  This is what you are used to.  This is not a Trump speech... well, except for the AIPAC one...

 

 

Trump isn't impervious to the media, he's been propped up by it, and he knows it. He manipulates that fact. Yes, the anger of the people is perfectly justified. It opens a perfect opportunity for a political outsider to make himself a leader and a unifier (Chrome is telling me that unifier is not a word, but I think it should be). Instead, Trump has created an enormous rift among US voters, and even within his own party. And he's done so by manipulating the anger and fear of the "Trumpsters".  

 

Trump rallies are different in that Trump gives voice to the audience.

Some of those voices are what really concern me about Trump's campaign. There's a lot of hatred and bigotry in those voices, and Trump needs to extinguish that, not fuel it.

[Guest Godless]

17 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

 

Trump is a protectionist, he's weak on Israel, and his one flippant example of a Supreme Court nominees was his very pro-choice sister. 

All perfectly valid reasons for me to like him, actually. 

[prisonchaplain]

Somehow, I doubt I have persuaded Godless to get on the Trump Train.  But...if you do get on...make sure you get a post in his new regime...might as well ride first class.  :-)

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

What you aren't accepting is that not every single one of his classmates commented. Some are probably deceased, and if everyone likes you-you are either delusional or you are doing something very wrong. 

So his name calling, harassment, lying, slander of innocent people, cheating on both of his wives, using eminent domain to get what he wants, selling "Trump University" as a "legit school" and inability to admit he's wrong isn't bullying?   

Name calling:

Which one is more honest -
1.)  Romney calls on Trump to release his tax records because he might not be as rich as he says he is (this must be a Mormon thing - Harry Reid pulled this same crap in 2012).
2.)  Trump calls Romney a loser.

 

Harassment -
Name a specific incident.  I can't think of one.

Lying -
It's an election cycle.  Everybody is accusing everybody of lying.  Cruz accused Trump of lying about being anti-amnesty.  Rubio accused Cruz of lying about being anti-amnesty... Seriously.  Accusations of lying in an election cycle is par for the course.  And that includes "Lying Ted".  Yes, Ted lies too.  He just says it better.

Slander -
Name a specific incident.

Cheating -
He cheated on Ivana.  Marla cheated on him.
Trump has his story, Ivana has his story, the news has their story, the tabloids have their story.  But whichever story you pick, they all point to the same thing... that marriage was over before Marla showed up.  Remember - this was the time that Trump was suffering from all kinds of financial losses... Ivana didn't want to get swept under.  She was a businesswoman too.  The reason it didn't end up in divorce before then?  Trump's father never divorced his wife throughout a lifetime's worth of a bad marriage.  Trump thought he can hang on.  The reason they got divorced?  Trump's friend went out on a shooting spree and killed 14 people.  He realized life is too short to spend in agony.  No, this doesn't excuse his cheating.  He's still a putz for that.
By the way, Gen. Petreaus cheated on his wife.  I'd vote for him for President.

Eminent Doman -
Are you talking about the old lady who didn't want to sell her property?  You sure you know the story on that?
Eminent Domain is a necessary law.  You couldn't build a football stadium in an accessible part of town without it, let alone the XL Pipeline...

Trump University -
You sure you know the story about that too?  I saw the political ad on that and even without knowing who Trump is, I can smell BS a mile away.  So much so that I'm sure if this was an anti-Romney political ad, there's no way you're going to believe it.  The students bought a product.  They thought they're gonna become millionaires when they graduate.  They sued when they didn't. 

But yes... you have one undeniable thing.  Trump doesn't admit he made a mistake... not verbally.  That's his personality - he believes mistakes are weaknesses, so he has to find a way to make his mistakes work in his favor... it's make lemonade out of lemons on steroids.  That's just the way he is.  Some people like it, some people don't.

 

Edited March 24, 2016 by anatess2

[prisonchaplain]

20 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Trump University -
You sure you know the story about that too?  I saw the political ad on that and even without knowing who Trump is, I can smell BS a mile away.  So much so that I'm sure if this was an anti-Romney political ad, there's no way you're going to believe it.  The students bought a product.  They thought they're gonna become millionaires when they graduate.  They sued when they didn't. 

 

There's sour grapes, and then there's deception.  From the link below, it sounds like Trump University was along the lines of those late-night real estate infomercials:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/432010/trump-university-scam

[Guest MormonGator]

Anatess, ask yourself honestly-Would you accept any evidence to the contrary, or would you try to explain it away? Or worse, would you ignore it because it does't fit your pre confirmed bias? 

 Like most Trumpers, I don't think you'd change your mind if Trump was caught robbing a bank and shooting a person in cold blood.  You've already decided to support him no matter what-and that's okay. 

And that's also the problem. Virtually all of his supporters suffer from cognitive dissonance in some form. They don't understand that his behavior and attitude-never mind his views-turns off a large amount of the population. Trump has a serious, serious mountain to climb. 

Trump University:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/432010/trump-university-scam

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/was-donald-trumps-education-venture-trump-university-a-scam/2015/09/13/299ed9c8-52c0-11e5-933e-7d06c647a395_story.html

Eminent Domain case: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-time-donald-trumps-empire-took-on-a-stubborn-widow--and-lost/2015/09/09/f9cb287e-5660-11e5-b8c9-944725fcd3b9_story.html 

Slander/Defimation: 

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bowe-bergdahl-released/donald-trump-deserves-defamation-suit-bowe-bergdahl-comments-attorney-n413401

Harassment: 
http://perezhilton.com/2016-03-22-donald-trump-karen-attiah-washington-post-editor-sexual-harassment

You don't have to justify it to me-it's fairly obvious we won't agree here. You have to ask yourself. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by MormonGator

[prisonchaplain]

Trump's name-calling certainly did not start with the election.  Here's a list of 202 insults he's lobbed: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/01/28/upshot/donald-trump-twitter-insults.html?smtyp=cur&_r=0

[anatess2]

12 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

There's sour grapes, and then there's deception.  From the link below, it sounds like Trump University was along the lines of those late-night real estate infomercials:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/432010/trump-university-scam

IT IS a Carlton Sheets kind of university.  It is NOT an accredited University for higher learning no matter that it has the name University on it.  If a person getting the product can't tell the difference between a REAL University and Trump University, then he deserves to lose his money.

In any case, the Feds ordered him to change the name of the course to help the people out who don't know what a real university is.  It's not Trump University anymore.  It's called something else.  Can't remember what it is... but it doesn't have University on it anymore.

[Guest MormonGator]

9 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

e.  Can't remember what it is... but it doesn't have University on it anymore.

Trump Entrepreneur Initiative. 

[anatess2]

9 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Trump Entrepreneur Initiative. 

Sounds even lamer than the first.  Hah.

[Guest MormonGator]

The really sad part is that I wanted to like him because I'm as far from PC (politically correct, not prisonchaplin) as you can get. 

[prisonchaplain]

Does anyone really want to be defending this stuff?  The Trump Train is a wreck waiting to happen. While there's still a 22% hope, get off and join Cruz Control.  You'll be glad you did.  :-)

Now you may return to your regularly scheduled programming...

[anatess2]

40 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Does anyone really want to be defending this stuff?  The Trump Train is a wreck waiting to happen. While there's still a 22% hope, get off and join Cruz Control.  You'll be glad you did.  :-)

Now you may return to your regularly scheduled programming...

Yes.  When you are willing to give away Scalia's Robes because of it  IT IS WORTH CLAWING MY WAY TO DEFENDING HIM.

If it was just between Cruz and Trump, I wouldn't bother.  They have similar policies.

AND NO.  MORMONGATOR, I LOVE YOU BUT IF YOU CALL ME A TRUMPSTER I'M GOING TO MAKE YOU LISTEN TO BERNIE ALL DAY LONG UNTIL NOVEMBER.

Look at your links.  NY Times.  Perez Hilton. 

Here.  How about you pick Rush Limbaugh!

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2016/03/24/if_trump_s_the_nominee_he_has_my_vote_because_the_democrat_party_is_the_most_destructive_force_in_america_today

[prisonchaplain]

National Review had 22 conservative thinkers write columns opposing Trump.  The #NEVERTRUMP folks are mostly party faithful conservatives.

Ironically, the mainstream media has been Trump's best friend. Sure, they've offered some negative analysis, but they've covered the daylights out of him--giving him hundreds of millions of dollars in free press.  The drive-bys are ecstatic at the GOP's dilemma, and love seeing Trump triumph.  If they are publishing negative stories, it's probably, in part, to pretend they have some objectivity.  Now...once the conventions are over--then you'll see the mud-slide, as the Mainstream Media jumps in the tank for HRC.

[Guest MormonGator]

50 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

 

AND NO.  MORMONGATOR, I LOVE YOU BUT IF YOU CALL ME A TRUMPSTER I'M GOING TO MAKE YOU LISTEN TO BERNIE ALL DAY LONG UNTIL NOVEMBER.

L

The feeling is mutual, and it's "Trumper" not "Trumpster". 

[anatess2]

18 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

National Review had 22 conservative thinkers write columns opposing Trump.  The #NEVERTRUMP folks are mostly party faithful conservatives.

Ironically, the mainstream media has been Trump's best friend. Sure, they've offered some negative analysis, but they've covered the daylights out of him--giving him hundreds of millions of dollars in free press.  The drive-bys are ecstatic at the GOP's dilemma, and love seeing Trump triumph.  If they are publishing negative stories, it's probably, in part, to pretend they have some objectivity.  Now...once the conventions are over--then you'll see the mud-slide, as the Mainstream Media jumps in the tank for HRC.

 

DUDE.. NATIONAL REVIEW TRIED TO TAKE GINGRICH OUT IN 2012!  They'll eat their own babies if it wasn't conservative!  There's no denying Trump is not your typical conservative.  For that you want Cruz.  But interestingly, the National Review, like most conservatives including Cruz, put up Reagan as their conservative superhero.  REAGAN.  The guy that signed the biggest pro-abortion law in California years before Rowe vs. Wade.  Reagan who signed a sweeping amnesty bill while President.  THAT Reagan. 

The mainstream media is Trump's best friend?  You must be kidding me.  All the negative stuff you've been giving me are all mainstream media spun stories.  They've been treating Trump as a circus clown expecting him to implode on his own.  Including Fox News.

Here's a Rush Limbaugh smackdown of National Review:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2016/01/22/have_you_ever_seen_anything_like_it_gop_tries_to_kill_both_its_front_runners

And here's Gingrich making the case for Trump as the natural ally to conservatism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVCUtlWZq7g

 

These guys are talking about the inherent character of Trump as it pertains to the future of the country and you're talking about Trump University.

And you're elevating Hillary.

And you wonder why I - A FILIPINO - is speaking up for Trump!

 

[Just_A_Guy]

22 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

The feeling is mutual, and it's "Trumper" not "Trumpster". 

The most amusing one I've heard is "Trumpkin", actually.  But it's not very nice . . .