For NeverTrumpers: An appeal to not vote Hillary over Trump

[LeSellers]

42 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

If you're referring to the voting public as the Lazy Republicans then it's a silly accusation.

As with all large groups, there's a bell curve. And, yes, a republic relies on representatives to operate ("representative republic" is redundant), but the voters must pay attention to what's going on more often than every election. Those to the left of the second standard deviation (just a guess, nothing scientific about it), don't do enough paying attention. That's why we have the political problems we do, and why so few people know their rights, and the power they could have if they would.

That's why I love caucuses much more than primaries. A caucus eliminates the fair-weather-Republicans (or whichever party), and gives me, and those like me, much more control over who runs in the more-or-less insignificant general election. By then, the real choices have been made.

Lehi

Edited April 26, 2016 by LeSellers

[anatess2]

Today on Rush Limbaugh:

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2016/04/26/what_i_know_about_donald_trump_and_ted_cruz

Let me... I'm going to take the occasion of your call to say something here about both men.  Because it's not good for people on our side of the aisle to start harboring opinions of our two front-runners here that may not be entirely accurate.  I understand the nature of competition.  And the Cruz people want desperately to win, and the Trump people desperately want to win.  And within the framework of this competition, obviously, critical things are going to be said.  I know both these guys, and I know both of them very well. 

Folks, I just want to tell you from the bottom of my heart. First off, for those of you Cruz people who think that Trump is some thug, he's not.  The "encouraging violence" thing is a little bit of an exaggeration of a couple of things that happened at some of the early Trump rallies that were largely symbolic.  You have to understand this is one of the things that put Trump on the map.  People on our side are fed up with having life dictated to us by public agitators and protesters who are not legitimate. 

They come in for one purpose, and that's to interrupt, disrupt.  They don't have a legitimate grievance.  They're faking it.  They're nothing but a bunch of bullies themselves, and Trump was not going to surrender his events to them.  He simply wasn't. In some faux sense of politeness or tolerance, he was not going to surrender his event to these people.  Donald Trump is a... You would love him living in your neighborhood.  You would love him if he were one of your friends.  He is a nice guy, but he's committed, and he's driven, and he's confident.

And many people assume, from that, that he's arrogant.  Some people assume that people like that are intolerant, that they're know-it-alls or what have you.  But if you would spend any time around Trump, you would enjoy yourself.  You'd be laughing, and you would have a good time.  You might think some things are beyond the pale or what have you, but he's not a bad guy.  And, by the same token, on the other side, I really am uncomfortable with what some of the Trump people think of Ted Cruz.  Ted Cruz is...

I don't know how else to say it. He's wholesome. He is solid. He is an excellent citizen. He's possessed of incredible dignity and integrity.  He's not a cheater.  And, by the same token, if Cruz lived in your neighborhood, it'd be a great neighborhood, and you'd be happy to have him in your neighborhood. You'd be happy to have Cruz as one of your friends.  He may seem stiff to some people because of the way he appears on the campaign trail, but both of these people are okay people.  They're nice people.  They're nice guys. 

They're driven in their own ways, and both of them are profoundly preferable to Hillary Clinton.  You want to talk about negative characteristics and personality traits? Gaming, cheating, this kind of thing? I mean, that is the name of the game for the entire Clinton machine.  What they have is a political machine, and it takes no prisoners.  And they are in it for the express purpose of maximizing as much personal gain as they can out of it while at the same time altering the status quo in this country in a negative way for the most people. 

They are elitists, and they're just not... You wouldn't, I don't think, fully trust them or their organization.  But when it comes to Cruz, you have a deeply religious, committed family man. He believes in God; he lives his life accordingly.  These are not bad guys.  These are not bad people.  And it's kind of part and parcel of campaigns that you have these kind of negative attacks, critical things said about people. But you can rely on the fact that when all this is done, these are people that you would not mind being around at all.

You wouldn't mind them having some role in your life, be it friendship, member of your church, or what have you.  But they're both in a pretty heated competition here for the most powerful job in the world.  And there are certain things that you have to do, certain requirements that you have to do to achieve this job, to win. It's what it takes to win this job, and it's something most people wouldn't even subject themselves to.  Most people wouldn't even enter this arena. 

Edited April 26, 2016 by anatess2

[anatess2]

Okay, I'm sold.  Count me in as a Trumpster.

He just gave a Foreign Policy speech that is EXACTLY everything I want an American President to accomplish.  Absolutely spot on.  I'll link the video as it becomes available.

[Guest MormonGator]

48 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

 Count me in as a Trumpster.

 

You've admitted something all of us knew for awhile now. 

[anatess2]

11 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

You've admitted something all of us knew for awhile now. 

Whatever.  I have been very open with my thoughts and reasoning on where I've been in this election cycle.  I even started a thread about my cautious reserve on Trump's foreign policy that went nowhere because of this ridiculous labeling.

Lyin' Ted, Crooked Hillary.  Little Marco... labeling.  Very effective in minimizing a person.  And you kept on using it on me complete with calling Trumpsters idiots.

Edited April 27, 2016 by anatess2

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, anatess2 said:

Whatever.  I have been very open with my thoughts and reasoning on where I've been in this election cycle.  I even started a thread about my cautious reserve on Trump's foreign policy that went nowhere because of this ridiculous labeling.

Lyin' Ted, Crooked Hillary.  Little Marco... labeling.  Very effective in minimizing a person.  And you kept on using it on me.

1) My post wasn't an insult, it was merely "We knew this." If someone called me an "Anti-Trumper" I wouldn't be insulted. 

2) We didn't label you. We didn't use name calling. We (and I only speak for myself) correctly said you were a Trump fan, and now you admitted it. Good.

[anatess2]

11 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

1) My post wasn't an insult, it was merely "We knew this." If someone called me an "Anti-Trumper" I wouldn't be insulted. 

2) We didn't label you. We didn't use name calling. We (and I only speak for myself) correctly said you were a Trump fan, and now you admitted it. Good.

Nice backpedal... but not quite.  Labeling me a Trumpster ignores the fact that I have zero preference at the time between Trump and Kasich and has no problem at all with Cruz except that my principles align more with Trump's leading towards Kasich's.

But what it effectively did was apply all the negative connotations that YOU and JAG assign to the label.  A Trump fan is quite different from a Trumpster.

But whatever.  Doesn't matter now.

Edited April 27, 2016 by anatess2

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, anatess2 said:

Nice backpedal... but not quite.  Labeling me a Trumpster ignores the fact that I have zero preference at the time between Trump and Kasich and has no problem at all with Cruz except that my principles align more with Trump's leading towards Kasich's.

So Trumpers can label people "lying, little, corrupt" and it's no big deal. But we never Trumpers correctly call someone a "Trumper" which again, isn't an insult-and it's somehow wrong? 

[anatess2]

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

So Trumpers can label people "lying, little, corrupt" and it's no big deal. But we never Trumpers correctly call someone a "Trumper" which again, isn't an insult-and it's somehow wrong? 

Who says Trumpsters can label people?  Not me.  But obviously, you have no problem with it.

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, anatess2 said:

Who says Trumpsters can label people?  Not me.  But obviously, you have no problem with it.

I'm not the one who has no problem with his insults. 

 

19 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Lyin' Ted, Crooked Hillary.  Little Marco... labeling.  Very effective in minimizing a person. 

So you approve of calling people that? 

[anatess2]

P.S.

Just wanna make this clear in case LittleParakeet sees this and gets upset that I'm abusing MG... I love MG!

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

P.S.

Just wanna make this clear in case LittleParakeet sees this and gets upset that I'm abusing MG... I love MG!

Thank you but not necessary. Like most grown ups I can separate the political from personal. The feeling is mutual.  

[anatess2]

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I'm not the one who has no problem with his insults. 

 

So you approve of calling people that? 

Follow the logic MG...

YOU called me a Trumpster.  I told YOU repeatedly I'm not one.

You then said it's okay for Trumpsters to say Lyin', Crooked, etc.

Once again... I'm not a Trumpster. 

But you're the one that likes to assign labels - especially to me.  So you're the only one between us that think it is just fine to label people.  I sure don't.

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, anatess2 said:

YOU called me a Trumpster.  I told YOU repeatedly I'm not one.

 

But you said this...

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Count me in as a Trumpster.

So....

[Guest MormonGator]

 What you are falling to comprehend is that being called a "Trumpster" is not an insult while being called "Lying, crooked, little or corrupt" is. 

[anatess2]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

But you said this...

So....

Yes.  Today.  I heard his foreign policy speech and I'm sold.

By the way, just because somebody wants Trump to be President doesn't mean they like everything he says.  I'll give you an assignment.  Go through every single post where I gave all my reasons why Trump is a viable Republican nominee and show where I said he's great because he says Lyin', Crooked, Little, etc.

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, anatess2 said:

Yes.  Today.  I heard his foreign policy speech and I'm sold.

By the way, just because somebody wants Trump to be President doesn't mean they like everything he says.  I'll give you an assignment.  Go through every single post where I gave all my reasons why Trump is a viable Republican nominee and show where I said he's great because he says Lyin', Crooked, Little, etc.

You are assuming that I mean it as an insult. I don't. It's descriptive, not pejorative. Calling someone "little, lying, corrupt, etc" is an insult.

[anatess2]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

You are assuming that I mean it as an insult. I don't. It's descriptive, not pejorative. Calling someone "little, lying, corrupt, etc" is an insult.

You have used it as an insult... not even 20 minutes ago... TrumpERs are okay with Lyin', Crooked, Little.  And on previous occasions on lds.net (not counting outside of lds.net where it is even more common), the Trumper label is used to refer to racist, bigot, misogynist, and least of all idiot.

[Just_A_Guy]

8 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Yes.  Today.  I heard his foreign policy speech and I'm sold.

By the way, just because somebody wants Trump to be President doesn't mean they like everything he says.  I'll give you an assignment.  Go through every single post where I gave all my reasons why Trump is a viable Republican nominee and show where I said he's great because he says Lyin', Crooked, Little, etc.

Yjacket has defended the practice; and in his post he cites a post of yours wherein you come dangerously close to doing the same.

Trump and his followers' repeated use of the "Who are you gonna believe?  Me, or your own lyin' eyes?" gambit, is a big part of what feeds the #NeverTrump movement amongst those of us who refuse to drink the Kool-Aid.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest MormonGator]

5 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

You have used it as an insult... not even 20 minutes ago... TrumpERs are okay with Lyin', Crooked, Little

Wrong. That was also a statement of fact because Trumpers are quick to defend his comments, therefore, they are okay with it. 

 

6 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

And on previous occasions on lds.net (not counting outside of lds.net where it is even more common), the Trumper label is used to refer to racist, bigot, misogynist, and least of all idiot.

Do you know me outside of LDS.net? 

[anatess2]

3 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Wrong. That was also a statement of fact because Trumpers are quick to defend his comments, therefore, they are okay with it. 

 

Do you know me outside of LDS.net? 

You just want to misunderstand me today... "Outside of lds.net... Trumper is used..."   I didn't say "Outside of lds.net YOU use..."

Anyway, I'm not gonna belabor this.  It's not productive.  There are more important things to talk about.

[anatess2]

Here's the speech:

 

 

I really encourage you to watch the entire speech but if you just can't then here are the highlights:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/04/27/video-trump-delivers-foreign-policy-speech-we-must-put-america-first

 

[anatess2]

4 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Thank you but not necessary. Like most grown ups I can separate the political from personal. The feeling is mutual.  

Good thing you're a Gator... If you were a Nole, it'd get bloody. 

[mirkwood]

8 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Thank you but not necessary. Like most grown ups I can separate the political from personal. The feeling is mutual.  

Your love of self is narcissistic you know. 

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Your love of self is narcissistic you know. 

You are the only one who got that! LOL! 

In reality, I'm just a humble guy. 

Edited April 28, 2016 by MormonGator