Thrones, principalities, powers, dominions actually all angels?

[Guest]

I mentioned in another thread that the promise of D&C 132 to exalted beings is that they'll receive kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, and dominions. I tried figuring out what these mean. A temple sealer once told me that kingdoms refers to worlds without end. But I noticed that "thrones, principalities, powers, and dominions" are all found in the Christian hierarchy of angels. Does this mean the promise to exalted beings is these different groups of ministering angels at our disposal or does it literally mean thrones as in chair thrones, etc? Take a look at this link and what I posted from it in this thread. I'm almost convinced D&C 132 and a certain ceremony is promising us angels, not the literal term for the words. Thoughts?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_angelology

Thrones[edit]

 

One traditional depiction of the chariot vision, based on the description in Ezekiel.

Main articles: Thrones and Ophanim

The "Thrones" (Greek: thronoi, pl. of thronos), or Elders, are a class of celestial beings mentioned by Paul of Tarsus in Colossians 1:16 (New Testament). They are living symbols of God's justice and authority, and have as one of their symbols the throne.

It is not unusual to find that the Thrones are associated, by some, with the Ophanim or Erelim from the Jewish angelic hierarchy, however there is very little evidence to sustain such idea, if any. The Ophanim (Heb. ofanim: Wheels, from the vision of Daniel 7:9) are unusual looking even compared to the other celestial beings plus they are said to be moved by the spirit of other beings, which raises the question if the Ophanim are spiritual beings at all or if it is a purely material being. They appear as a beryl-coloured wheel-within-a-wheel, their rims covered with hundreds of eyes. They are closely connected with the Cherubim instead: "When they moved, the others moved; when they stopped, the others stopped; and when they rose from the earth, the wheels rose along with them; for the spirit of the living creatures [Cherubim] was in the wheels." Ezekiel 10:17 NRSV.

Christian theologians that include the Thrones as one of the choirs don't describe them as wheels, describing them as adoring elder men who listen to the will of God and present the prayers of men. The twenty four elder men in the book of revelation are usually thought to be part of this group of angels.

 

Dominions or Lordships[edit]

The "Dominions" (Eph. 1:21; Col. 1:16) (lat. dominatio, plural dominationes, also translated from the Greek term kyriotētes, pl. of kyriotēs, as "Lordships") or "Dominations" are presented as the hierarchy of celestial beings "Lordships" in some English translations of the De Coelesti Hierarchia. The Dominions regulate the duties of lower angels. It is only with extreme rarity that the angelic lords make themselves physically known to humans.

The Dominions are believed to look like divinely beautiful humans with a pair of feathered wings, much like the common representation of angels, but they may be distinguished from other groups by wielding orbs of light fastened to the heads of their scepters or on the pommel of their swords.^{[citation needed]}

 

Powers or Authorities[edit]

The "Powers" (lat. potestas (f), pl. potestates), or "Authorities", from the Greek exousiai, pl. of exousia (see Greek root in Eph 3:10).^[9] Being warrior angels, they oppose evil spirits, especially those that make use of the matter in the universe, so they don't do as much harm in the world as would otherwise, usually casting and chaining evil spirits to detention places. They are usually represented as soldiers wearing full armor and helmet, and also having defensive and offensive weapons such as shields and spears or chains respectively. The primary duty of the "Powers" is to supervise the movements of the heavenly bodies in order to ensure that the cosmos remains in order.^{[citation needed]}

The Powers are the bearers of conscience and the keepers of history. They are also the warrior angels created to be completely loyal to God. Some believe that no Power has ever fallen from grace, but another theory states that Satan was the Chief of the Powers before he Fell (see also Ephesians 6:12). Their duty is to oversee the distribution of power among humankind, hence their name.^{[citation needed]}

Paul used the term rule and authority in Ephesians 1:21,^[11] and rulers and authorities in Ephesians 3:10.^[12] He may have been referring to the rulers and authorities of humanity, instead of referring to angels.^{[citation needed]}

 

Principalities or Rulers[edit]

The "Principalities" (Latin: principati) also translated as "Princedoms" and "Rulers", from the Greek archai, pl. of archē (see Greek root in Eph 3:10), are the angels that guide and protect nations, or groups of peoples, and institutions such as the Church. The Principalities preside over the bands of angels and charge them with fulfilling the divine ministry. There are some who administer and some who assist.^[9]

The Principalities are shown wearing a crown and carrying a sceptre. Their duty also is said to be to carry out the orders given to them by the upper sphere angels and bequeath blessings to the material world. Their task is to oversee groups of people. They are the educators and guardians of the realm of earth. Like beings related to the world of the germinal ideas, they are said to inspire living things to many things such as art or science.^[13]

Paul used the term rule and authority in Ephesians 1:21,^[11] and rulers and authorities in Ephesians 3:10.^[12]

 

The other forms of angels mentioned besides "thrones, principalities, powers, and dominons" are "Seraphim, Cherubim, Virtues or Strongholds, Archangels, and Angels". What do you think?

[LeSellers]

I think that if it were important for us to know this sort of thing, there would have been a revelation on the subject.

That said, we should also recall that the world outside the Church is in apostasy. What they think about angels is not binding on us.

And, finally, we know that there are three kingdoms, and the highest is further divided into three levels. We know that those who are not exalted will be angels. If we imagine (note this is not doctrine, just an exploration of the possible) that the other two kingdoms are also divided into levels, finding seven kinds of angels is not only possible, it's reasonable.

So, if the exalted inherit the seven kinds of angels, it may be what exaltation is all about.

Lehi

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

I think that if it were important for us to know this sort of thing, there would have been a revelation on the subject.

That said, we should also recall that the world outside the Church is in apostasy. What they think about angels is not binding on us.

And, finally, we know that there are three kingdoms, and the highest is further divided into three levels. We know that those who are not exalted will be angels. If we imagine (note this is not doctrine, just an exploration of the possible) that the other two kingdoms are also divided into levels, finding seven kinds of angels is not only possible, it's reasonable.

So, if the exalted inherit the seven kinds of angels, it may be what exaltation is all about.

Lehi

Great points. I'd love to hear what other people think of the Christian hierarchy of angels including promises to exalted beings.

[Guest]

Notice how verse 19 of D&C 132 mentions the thrones, principalities, powers and dominions which I think could mean the hierarchy of angels, and then the end of verse 20 explains how they will be gods "because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them."

[The Folk Prophet]

All an angel is is a messenger from God. So if we are gods, create worlds without end and populate them with our spirit children, of course some of them will be messengers and will be "angels".

[Guest]

Do people here believe in the literal terms for what we receive? Like do you believe we literally get thrones, kingdoms, principalities, powers, and dominions?

[Just_A_Guy]

We like to think of Joseph Smith as a rough, unlettered backwoodsman.  And so he was--when the Book of Mormon was translated.  But Smith was extremely curious intellectually, and took care to introduce himself to a variety of ideologies and theologies.  I would not at all be surprised to hear that he was aware of the concepts mentioned in the OP, and that he worked an allusion to them into the way he worded* D&C 132 (and the temple liturgy)--not necessarily to confirm traditional Christian notions of angelology; but to establish that the reward that awaits the faithful is far greater than anything that mainstream Christianity has ever anticipated.

And, besides--it just plain sounds cool.  Very, very cool. 

 

*I don't believe D&C 132 was dictated verbatim from God; I think it's Smith using his own verbiage to express general ideas that had been received by revelation.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[Blueskye2]

Angels are:

- Attendants to God's throne; Daniel 7:9-10, Psalm 96:7, Psalm 102.20. The six-winged Seraphim who minster at God's throne. Isaiah 6. A special group of 7 angels who's function is to stand before the throne of God; Rev 8:2-5
- God's assistants; Job 1:6, 2:1

These are special glimpses into heaven. Generally, humans interact with angels in their role as messengers, personal guardians, defenders of the faithful, executing miracles while acting as divine agents, representing and in some cases, putting into execution God's will.

To the topic of the OP, there is a hierarchy of angels; ranks in the heavenly army, if you will. Cherubim who are clearly God's ministers. The special group of 7 who surround God's throne. Seraphim. Archangels (1 Thes 4:15). And then St. Paul's description of "principality, and power, and virtue, and dominion" in Ephesians 1:21. And in Col 1:16 where he describes a hierarchy of angels as part of creation. "In Him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominations, or principalities or powers."

St Paul also warns of following unlawful angels. First describing them as defeated by Jesus. "and the dominions and powers he robbed of their prey, put them to an open shame, led them away in triumph, through him" (Col 2:15) Followed in verse 18 with an admonition to not worship them.

All in all, there are 9 orders in the host of Heaven. Angels, Archangels, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Dominations, Throne, Cherubim and Seraphim.

 

[Blueskye2]

This has put a hymn into my head.

 

 

"Rank on rank the host of heaven spreads its vanguard on the way"

"At His feet the six-winged Seraph, Cherubim, with sleepless eye. Veil their faces to His presence as with ceaseless voice they cry: Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia! Lord Most High!"

[Edspringer]

21 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

Do people here believe in the literal terms for what we receive? Like do you believe we literally get thrones, kingdoms, principalities, powers, and dominions?

I do, from the deep of my heart

[Edspringer]

On 14/07/2016 at 9:35 PM, Zarahemla said:

Notice how verse 19 of D&C 132 mentions the thrones, principalities, powers and dominions which I think could mean the hierarchy of angels, and then the end of verse 20 explains how they will be gods "because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them."

About D&C 132:19 mentioning the thrones, principalities, powers and dominions:

D&C 130 states the following:

6 The angels do not reside on a planet like this earth;

7 But they reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord.

 8 The place where God resides is a great Urim and Thummim.

9 This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s.

 

10 Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each

individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known;

 

So, we can see that, when we become gods ourselves, we will have power or control over lower kingdoms and access to higher ones. In my point of view this means powers and dominions.

Thrones: as promised in the endowment ceremony, we are washed and anointed to become kings and queens and rule over the house of Israel forever. This is literal, not figurative.

Principalities: as heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ, it is easily understood that we will have principalities in the world to come, since our Father’s  and Christ ‘s sovereignty will still prevail over us.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Edspringer said:

About D&C 132:19 mentioning the thrones, principalities, powers and dominions:

 

D&C 130 states the following:

 

6 The angels do not reside on a planet like this earth;

 

7 But they reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord.

 

 8 The place where God resides is a great Urim and Thummim.

 

9 This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s.

 

 

 

10 Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each

 

individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known;

 

 

So, we can see that, when we become gods ourselves, we will have power or control over lower kingdoms and access to higher ones. In my point of view this means powers and dominions.

 

Thrones: as promised in the endowment ceremony, we are washed and anointed to become kings and queens and rule over the house of Israel forever. This is literal, not figurative.

 

Principalities: as heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ, it is easily understood that we will have principalities in the world to come, since our Father’s  and Christ ‘s sovereignty will still prevail over us.

 

So do you think we also get a physical chair to sit on and rule from that's a throne or does throne just mean ruling and we actually don't have a physical throne chair since God has said heaven is his throne and the earth His footstool.

[zil]

For some reason, the refrain from hymn #223 keeps running through my head...

[Edspringer]

16 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

So do you think we also get a physical chair to sit on and rule from that's a throne or does throne just mean ruling and we actually don't have a physical throne chair since God has said heaven is his throne and the earth His footstool.

A throne is a symbol of kingship. Kings of this Earth sit in their thrones and command only (e.g. king Noah, in the Book of Mormon - Mosiah 11:1-14)

Jesus said about His Father and our Father: "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work". (John 5:17).

So our God is a God of continuous action.  He and our Savior are Gods of work and do not act like the kings of this earth. 

My conclusion: if God has a physical throne, He isnt sitting there all the time. I believe He is working on the salvation of His children.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Edspringer
Add scripture

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Edspringer said:

A throne is a symbol of kingship. Kings of this Earth sit in their thrones and command only (e.g. king Noah, in the Book of Mormon - Mosiah 11:1-14)

Jesus said about His Father and our Father: "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work". (John 5:17).

So our God is a God of continuous action.  He and our Savior are Gods of work and do not act like the kings of this earth. 

My conclusion: if God has a physical throne, He isnt sitting there all the time. I believe He is working on the salvation of His children.

That's what I'm hoping for. Im happy Heavenly Father and Jesus aren't just kicking back on golden thrones. As I would hope I wouldn't kick back on a throne if I was exalted. I'd want to be active and up and about.

[nuclearfuels]

I don't think it means like actual chairs, like thrones but rather it probably means what you think it means...the same way Joseph Smith explained that when the Savior said "In my Father's kingdom are many mansions..." He didn't mean actual big houses.  If you read The Kolob Theorem, I think its premise speaks to your interpretation, as laws of physics and astronomy might also govern interaction between kingdoms, by exalted beings as well as those who assist them...the ministering angels, and all that.

 

Teachings of Joseph Smith

God has prepared three degrees of glory for His children.

“My text is on the resurrection of the dead, which you will find in the 14th chapter of John—‘In my Father’s house are many mansions.’ [John 14:2.] It should be—‘In my Father’s kingdom are many kingdoms,’ in order that ye may be heirs of God and joint-heirs with me. … There are mansions for those who obey a celestial law, and there are other mansions for those who come short of the law, every man in his own order.”³

“‘But,’ says one, ‘I believe in one universal heaven and hell, where all go, and are all alike, and equally miserable or equally happy.’

“What! where all are huddled together—the honorable, virtuous, and murderers, and whoremongers, when it is written that they shall be judged according to the deeds done in the body? But St. Paul informs us of three glories and three heavens. He knew a man that was caught up to the third heaven [see 1 Corinthians 15:40–41; 2 Corinthians 12:2–4]. … Jesus said unto His disciples, ‘In my Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you, and I will come and receive you to myself, that where I am ye may be also.’ [See John 14:2–3.]”⁴

“Go and read the vision in [Doctrine and Covenants 76]. There is clearly illustrated glory upon glory—one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and a glory of the stars; and as one star differeth from another star in glory, even so do they of the telestial world differ in glory, and every man who reigns in celestial glory is a God to his dominions. …

“Paul says, ‘There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory. So is also the resurrection of the dead.’ [1 Corinthians 15:41–42.]”⁵

[nuclearfuels]

I don't think it means like actual chairs, like thrones but rather it probably means what you think it means...the same way Joseph Smith explained that when the Savior said "In my Father's kingdom are many mansions..." He didn't mean actual big houses.  If you read The Kolob Theorem, I think its premise speaks to your interpretation, as laws of physics and astronomy might also govern interaction between kingdoms, by exalted beings as well as those who assist them...the ministering angels, and all that.

 

Teachings of Joseph Smith

God has prepared three degrees of glory for His children.

“My text is on the resurrection of the dead, which you will find in the 14th chapter of John—‘In my Father’s house are many mansions.’ [John 14:2.] It should be—‘In my Father’s kingdom are many kingdoms,’ in order that ye may be heirs of God and joint-heirs with me. … There are mansions for those who obey a celestial law, and there are other mansions for those who come short of the law, every man in his own order.”³

“‘But,’ says one, ‘I believe in one universal heaven and hell, where all go, and are all alike, and equally miserable or equally happy.’

“What! where all are huddled together—the honorable, virtuous, and murderers, and whoremongers, when it is written that they shall be judged according to the deeds done in the body? But St. Paul informs us of three glories and three heavens. He knew a man that was caught up to the third heaven [see 1 Corinthians 15:40–41; 2 Corinthians 12:2–4]. … Jesus said unto His disciples, ‘In my Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you, and I will come and receive you to myself, that where I am ye may be also.’ [See John 14:2–3.]”⁴

“Go and read the vision in [Doctrine and Covenants 76]. There is clearly illustrated glory upon glory—one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and a glory of the stars; and as one star differeth from another star in glory, even so do they of the telestial world differ in glory, and every man who reigns in celestial glory is a God to his dominions. …

“Paul says, ‘There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory. So is also the resurrection of the dead.’ [1 Corinthians 15:41–42.]”⁵

[LeSellers]

48 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

The Kolob Theorem

What, prithee, is this?

Lehi

[nuclearfuels]

https://www.amazon.com/Kolob-Theorem-Mormons-Starry-Universe/dp/1475172133

As far as I understand the book, the theory is that the 3 kingdoms are organized basically like planets, stars, our sun, etc.  which seems to stand to reason to me - vis-a-vis the refiner's fire motif, etc., like only the purest and strongest materials can withstand the highest heat..."God dwells amid everlasting burnings"

At the funeral of a man with the unique name of King Follett, Joseph Smith declared:

 

“… although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings immortal glory ….”

 

So where is the evidence in support of these prophetic declarations.

 

Since a major astronomical discovery in 2004, all you have to do to answer this question is Google the phrase “biggest diamond in the universe.”

 

In 2004 scientists discovered a gigantic diamond, approximately 4000 km in diameter, inside a white dwarf star.  I first learned of this from an article in the Gold Coast Bulletin and on www.news.com.au in February 2004.

 

So evidence number 5 is that:

 

5.            Joseph Smith declared that a place exists that is amid “everlasting burnings” with a place that is like a giant sea of glass.  The 2004 discovery of a giant diamond inside a white dwarf star confirms that places such as this truly do exist.  Since Joseph Smith and John the Revelator did not have the benefit of the Hubble space telescope, the only way they could have known of the existence of these remarkable astronomical objects is by revelation from God.  Or by a VERY lucky guess.