Who goes to the 3 levels of the Celestial Kingdom?

[Guest]

We are told there are 3 levels in the Celestial Kingdom but it's not clear what you need to do to go to each level. Here's my guess and tell me what you think about my guess and what your guess is:

Lowest Level: Baptized and confirmed with the Holy Ghost.

Middle Level: Endowed in the temple after receiving the initiatory

Highest Level: Sealed in the temple to a spouse for time and all eternity.

 

I deeply feel I've got it right because it makes sense and no other alternative has ever been proposed to me that makes as much sense in my heart.

[Jane_Doe]

No.

There is much more to a person's progression than whether or not they performed ordinances XYZ.  Everyone will eventually have all their ordinances performed (whether in person or vicariously).  What matters is whether or not these ordinances and the convents with God they represent were honored by that person.  

[bytebear]

Celestial:  Baptism

Terrestial:  Faith in Christ, valiant but deceived, those who covenanted (baptized) but did not live up to their covenants.  Those who rejected the Gospel in mortality, but accepted it in the Spirit World.

Telestial: Everyone else (liars, deceivers, those who actively work against God, those who defy their covenants, and not merely falter).

Wikipedia has a good synopsis (with scriptural references).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrees_of_glory#Celestial_kingdom

I imagine that we all have a choice to accept or reject the Gospel.  Those who reject it in this life but accept it in the next, will have Terrestrial glory.  Those who accept it in this life, or accept it in the next (without first rejecting it) will receive Celestial Glory.  Those who always reject it, will be in Telestial glory.  But, interestingly enough, it's always the individual who chooses and not for a lack of knowledge (either in this life of the next).

Edited October 3, 2016 by bytebear

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, Zarahemla said:

We are told there are 3 levels in the Celestial Kingdom but it's not clear what you need to do to go to each level. Here's my guess and tell me what you think about my guess and what your guess is:

Lowest Level: Baptized and confirmed with the Holy Ghost.

Middle Level: Endowed in the temple after receiving the initiatory

Highest Level: Sealed in the temple to a spouse for time and all eternity.

 

I deeply feel I've got it right because it makes sense and no other alternative has ever been proposed to me that makes as much sense in my heart.

It's not about what you did per se.  It's about whether, when, and how you received the testimony of Jesus--see D&C 76:51, 74 and 79, 82. 

Obedience is important; but the focus needs to be on getting our testimony right--once that happens, most of the rest will tend to fall into place very naturally (even though there will obviously still be challenges). 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

It's not about what you did per se.  It's about whether, when, and how you received the testimony of Jesus--see D&C 76:51, 74 and 79, 82. 

Obedience is important; but the focus needs to be on getting our testimony right--once that happens, most of the rest will tend to fall into place very naturally (even though there will obviously still be challenges). 

Then why are there 3 levels within the Celestial Kingdom itself? You try explaining that one. I understand 3 levels of Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms, but I'm very confused by the 3 sub degrees within the Celestial Kingdom. I know the only way to reach the top and be exalted is if we are sealed in the temple to a spouse. That much has been said. Figuring out who goes in the middle and lower degrees of the CK is harder to figure out or why they are there in the first place.

[Just_A_Guy]

8 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

Then why are there 3 levels within the Celestial Kingdom itself? You try explaining that one. I understand 3 levels of Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms, but I'm very confused by the 3 sub degrees within the Celestial Kingdom. I know the only way to reach the top and be exalted is if we are sealed in the temple to a spouse. That much has been said. Figuring out who goes in the middle and lower degrees of the CK is harder to figure out or why they are there in the first place.

Ah.  My apologies; I misapprehended your question. 

[Jane_Doe]

17 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

Then why are there 3 levels within the Celestial Kingdom itself? You try explaining that one. I understand 3 levels of Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms, but I'm very confused by the 3 sub degrees within the Celestial Kingdom. I know the only way to reach the top and be exalted is if we are sealed in the temple to a spouse. That much has been said. Figuring out who goes in the middle and lower degrees of the CK is harder to figure out or why they are there in the first place.

Because even among the righteous there is a spectrum of people's willingness to follow Christ.  God will not force a person to a place of glory unbefitting them.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Because even among the righteous there is a spectrum of people's willingness to follow Christ.  God will not force a person to a place of glory unbefitting them.

I never viewed making the top of the Celestial Kingdom as choosing yourself there I've always viewed it as earning your way there like earning a doctorate degree.

[Jane_Doe]

5 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

I never viewed making the top of the Celestial Kingdom as choosing yourself there I've always viewed it as earning your way there like earning a doctorate degree.

Being a disciple of Christ is not about saying "I did this, now give me this cause I earned it" and going about your same-old way.  It is about choosing to be a disciple- a pupil- and choosing to become like Him.  Some people choose to refuse Him completely. Some choose to give it half-hearted effort.  Some choose to give it 90% effort but refuse that last little bit.  Some choose to give it their 120%.  

A person who only chooses to give 99% of themselves to God does not want 100% unity with God.  And God will not force them to have something they do not want.

 

(PS-- as a person who is literally earning a phD, you've got some misconceptions about what goes on there).

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

Being a disciple of Christ is not about saying "I did this, now give me this cause I earned it" and going about your same-old way.  It is about choosing to be a disciple- a pupil- and choosing to become like Him.  Some people choose to refuse Him completely. Some choose to give it half-hearted effort.  Some choose to give it 90% effort but refuse that last little bit.  Some choose to give it their 120%.  

A person who only chooses to give 99% of themselves to God does not want 100% unity with God.  And God will not force them to have something they do not want.

 

(PS-- as a person who is literally earning a phD, you've got some misconceptions about what goes on there).

So how do we figure out what percentage we're giving ourselves to God?

[Jane_Doe]

4 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

So how do we figure out what percentage we're giving ourselves to God?

Ask yourself and God honestly.  

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Ask yourself and God honestly.  

I try and never know where I stand with God. I've done a lot of bad, but I've repented of all that bad and confessed to Bishops when necessary. I just don't know where I stand right now if I were to die today how I'd be judged.

[Guest MormonGator]

39 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

I try and never know where I stand with God. I've done a lot of bad, but I've repented of all that bad and confessed to Bishops when necessary. I just don't know where I stand right now if I were to die today how I'd be judged.

My heart breaks reading this post. I just want to give you a hug. I bet you are a much, much better person than you think you are and your standing with God is much better than you think it is. Sometimes LDS and religious people can be very hard on themselves. God can forgive and let go, you need to as well. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by MormonGator

[Jane_Doe]

40 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

I try and never know where I stand with God. I've done a lot of bad, but I've repented of all that bad and confessed to Bishops when necessary. I just don't know where I stand right now if I were to die today how I'd be judged.

Have you asked God?  Not something complicated like "what level of the Celestial Kingdom am I going to?".  But something simple and pure: "Dear Heavenly Father, am I your son?"

[zil]

1 hour ago, Zarahemla said:

I try and never know where I stand with God. I've done a lot of bad, but I've repented of all that bad and confessed to Bishops when necessary. I just don't know where I stand right now if I were to die today how I'd be judged.

Zarahemla, I don't think this feeling is unusual.  It can take a long time for a person to learn this.  And even after we've felt like we were on the right path, our feelings can go up and down depending on where we are on any given day.  The best thing you can do is the basics, with real intent.  Perhaps re-watch Elder Cornish's talk - you will be good enough & you will make it, so long as you keep “repenting often and pleading for the grace or help of Christ”.

[Guest MormonGator]

8 minutes ago, zil said:

  Perhaps re-watch Elder Cornish's talk 

Best talk from an overall wonderful conference.  

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, Zarahemla said:

I try and never know where I stand with God. I've done a lot of bad, but I've repented of all that bad and confessed to Bishops when necessary. I just don't know where I stand right now if I were to die today how I'd be judged.

Ephesians 1:13-14.  The Holy Spirit functions as an "earnest"--or in modern terms, "down payment"--on what we may expect in the hereafter.  If you are satisfied with the degree to which you're feeling the Spirit--good!  Keep it up.  If you feel yourself wanting the Spirit more consistently in your life, maybe that's an indicator that you need to re-evaluate your walk with God.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Zarahemla said:

I try and never know where I stand with God. I've done a lot of bad, but I've repented of all that bad and confessed to Bishops when necessary. I just don't know where I stand right now if I were to die today how I'd be judged.

My only hope is that it doesn't matter where I stand today.  It's which direction I am headed.  I've got a LOT of repenting I need to do.  And I'm far from what many Mormons would consider a good role model.  But my hope in Christ is that I continue to make progress and keep getting closer to Him.

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

And I'm far from what many Mormons would consider a good role model. 

Actually you are a role model to many of us here. Like I mentioned before, 99.9 of LDS are too hard on themselves. 

[Guest]

I just wish how to understand this all better.

[Jane_Doe]

5 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

I just wish how to understand this all better.

Well the first thing to do is to identify what it is you don't understand  

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Well the first thing to do is to identify what it is you don't understand  

I don't understand how to confirm God's feelings for me. Do I need my bosom to burn to feel forgiven and clean? How do I feel forgiven and clean and know God has forgiven me of my sins and I'm currently on the path to Spirit paradise if I were to die today.

[Jane_Doe]

5 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

I don't understand how to confirm God's feelings for me. Do I need my bosom to burn to feel forgiven and clean? How do I feel forgiven and clean and know God has forgiven me of my sins and I'm currently on the path to Spirit paradise if I were to die today.

*Jane kicks into super-logical science mode*

If you want to learn how to measure something (such as confirming God's feelings) then you got to get the proper instrumentation for it.  To develop and test any instrumentation, here is the procedure:

1) When you observe that an event is happening (such as you feeling His Spirit), look at your instrument is doing indicating this event? (your instrument =  your spirit).  Record this result.

2) The next time you observe the same event, likewise record the result.

3) Upon gathering a number of recordings, look for patterns: how is your instrument indicating the event?  

4) Develop a hypothesis: "when my spirit does X, I am feeling His Spirit".  

5)  Test your hypothesis.  Did it work?  If so, great!  If not, then we must examine the pattern further, update our hypothesis, test, and repeat until we find the answer. 

6) Once your instrument is working (aka you know what it feels like to feel the Spirit), listen for that "ding!"  When you here the "ding!" you know it's the Spirit and should Listen accordingly.  

 

 

* Jane flicks herself on the forehead to get out of scientist-mode*

Ok, I don't know anyone who feels the Spirit as a literal "ding".  But people do feel it in different ways.  For example, I never feel it as the "burning" sensation--- no to meet that's heartburn.  Rather, I feel it as "peace be still"-- like when the Master calms the seas.  My mind, which naturally bounces around like an over-caffeinated bunny, becomes still.  Peaceful.  That is me feeling the Spirit. 

@Zarahemla What does the Spirit feel like to you?

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

*Jane kicks into super-logical science mode*

If you want to learn how to measure something (such as confirming God's feelings) then you got to get the proper instrumentation for it.  To develop and test any instrumentation, here is the procedure:

1) When you observe that an event is happening (such as you feeling His Spirit), look at your instrument is doing indicating this event? (your instrument =  your spirit).  Record this result.

2) The next time you observe the same event, likewise record the result.

3) Upon gathering a number of recordings, look for patterns: how is your instrument indicating the event?  

4) Develop a hypothesis: "when my spirit does X, I am feeling His Spirit".  

5)  Test your hypothesis.  Did it work?  If so, great!  If not, then we must examine the pattern further, update our hypothesis, test, and repeat until we find the answer. 

6) Once your instrument is working (aka you know what it feels like to feel the Spirit), listen for that "ding!"  When you here the "ding!" you know it's the Spirit and should Listen accordingly.  

 

 

* Jane flicks herself on the forehead to get out of scientist-mode*

Ok, I don't know anyone who feels the Spirit as a literal "ding".  But people do feel it in different ways.  For example, I never feel it as the "burning" sensation--- no to meet that's heartburn.  Rather, I feel it as "peace be still"-- like when the Master calms the seas.  My mind, which naturally bounces around like an over-caffeinated bunny, becomes still.  Peaceful.  That is me feeling the Spirit. 

@Zarahemla What does the Spirit feel like to you?

I felt the spirit strongly and it felt like morphine flowing through my whole body during a priesthood blessing where I was sober and told in 2013 I was completely forgiven of all my sins. Only problem is I'm not perfect and I've sinned since then.

[Jane_Doe]

7 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

I felt the spirit strongly and it felt like morphine flowing through my whole body during a priesthood blessing where I was sober and told in 2013 I was completely forgiven of all my sins. Only problem is I'm not perfect and I've sinned since then.

Ok: let's focus in that feeling.  Now, when was the last time you asked God about yours and His relationship?  Did you listen for His answer and that morphine-feeling?  

(You don't have to answer these questions on forum if you don't want to. The larger point is for you to know the answer).

Edited October 4, 2016 by Jane_Doe