Guest Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Over the past few days, for some reason I keep getting the feeling I should share on this forum a book that really helped my testimony to grow. I thought maybe a thread could be made for books outside of scriptures that have helped our testimonies to grow? (does a thread already exist for this purpose?) The book is called "Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up" by David W. Bercot. In it, an Evangelical reads the writings of first century Christian leaders and tries to picture what the early Christian church believed in. He outlines a church that differs remarkably from both Protestantism and Catholicism in its beliefs and practices. In the end, he concludes that the beliefs of the Early Church were quite different from the beliefs of modern-day Christianity. In reading, however, I recognized that he was essentially outlining largely Mormon beliefs! Bercot is not a Mormon and he does not mention the Church in his writings. I thought that this was all very interesting and really gave my testimony a bit of a boost at at time I really needed it. I have since been reading the actual writings of the early Christian fathers, and have found lots to confirm what Bercot was saying. The book is not perfect (Bercot does not, for example, question Nicean trinitarian ideas, which makes sense, since the actual position of the Church and other Christians on the trinity is close... much closer than many probably think, if one truly understands the traditional Christian doctrine on the trinity and what Mormons actually believe regarding the godhead), but it still gave my testimony a huge boost. Anyhow, I kept feeling like I should share that over the last few days. Maybe it will help someone who needs it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 I like the idea of a thread of faith promoting books. A book that teally helped during a faith crisis was The Crucible of Doubt by Terryl and Fionna Givens. They are LDS, and they talk about several issues that sometimes cause faith challenges. My issue was not there, but I still found the book very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 I loved The Voice of the Lord by Lund A God who Weeps by Givens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 Shaken Faith Syndrome by Ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2016 Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 5 minutes ago, Sunday21 said: Shaken Faith Syndrome by Ash I have that one on my Kindle! I love how many "difficult questions" it gives answers to and goes into. Very useful indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted December 24, 2016 Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 I am amazed how many of Joseph Smith's notions that are non-traditional seem so clear scripturally. Just the way the word "saint" is used Biblically is enough to tell me he had something there. Sunday21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runewell Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 To be Saints indeed requires every wrong influence that is within them, as individuals, to be subdued, until every evil desire is eradicated, and every feeling of their hearts is brought into subjection to the will of Christ (DBY, 91). According to Brigham Young's definition of a saint, I don't think anybody on this earth qualifies. The New Testament says something quite different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 12 hours ago, runewell said: To be Saints indeed requires every wrong influence that is within them, as individuals, to be subdued, until every evil desire is eradicated, and every feeling of their hearts is brought into subjection to the will of Christ (DBY, 91). According to Brigham Young's definition of a saint, I don't think anybody on this earth qualifies. The New Testament says something quite different. I recognize your need to keep showcasing what you think you know about us Mormons. But could you at least keep it on topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
person0 Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, Carborendum said: I recognize your need to keep showcasing what you think you know about us Mormons. But could you at least keep it on topic? @runewell Your sincere perspective is welcome, but you really should stay on topic, or start your own thread if it's something important to you. If you continue to post things that are obviously intended to detract, you could eventually get banned. If that happens, how could you lead people in this forum to embrace the beliefs which you hold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 It's fine. It's a response to @bytebear's comment about the use of the word "saint". It's a bit of a tangent but not by much as it goes with a previous post. So... 17 hours ago, runewell said: To be Saints indeed requires every wrong influence that is within them, as individuals, to be subdued, until every evil desire is eradicated, and every feeling of their hearts is brought into subjection to the will of Christ (DBY, 91). According to Brigham Young's definition of a saint, I don't think anybody on this earth qualifies. The New Testament says something quite different. The bolded phrase above is where the misunderstanding is. You simply thought wrong about what Brigham Young meant. Keep learning... you'll get there. Do start a new topic so we can properly explain to you how the line you quoted aligns with scriptural meaning of the word saint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runewell Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, anatess2 said: It's fine. It's a response to @bytebear's comment about the use of the word "saint". It's a bit of a tangent but not by much as it goes with a previous post. So... The bolded phrase above is where the misunderstanding is. You simply thought wrong about what Brigham Young meant. Keep learning... you'll get there. Do start a new topic so we can properly explain to you how the line you quoted aligns with scriptural meaning of the word saint. So are you saying you or someone you know has eradicated every evil desire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 For some reason, I found The Hiding Place by Corrie Ten Boom as one of my most faith-promoting books. I have several books that helped me work through faith crisis but it's not really the book itself that promoted faith but my reaction to the book... for example, Talmage's The Great Apostasy was an important part of my conversion but I wouldn't recommend that book to anybody seeking the truth of the restored gospel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 Just now, runewell said: So are you saying you or someone you know has eradicated every evil desire? Like I said... you do not understand the quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runewell Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 5 hours ago, Carborendum said: I recognize your need to keep showcasing what you think you know about us Mormons. But could you at least keep it on topic? After bytebear's comment I think I am on-topic enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runewell Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 Just now, anatess2 said: Like I said... you do not understand the quote. Please enlighten me, it looks quite straightforward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, runewell said: Please enlighten me, it looks quite straightforward. This is when we need a new thread so we don't hijack this one. If you really want to know what Brigham Young meant - with honest intent to learn, and not so you can have the opportunity to satisfy some desire to throw darts at Mormons - then please start a new thread and we'll happily explain it to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 On 12/24/2016 at 0:26 AM, bytebear said: I am amazed how many of Joseph Smith's notions that are non-traditional seem so clear scripturally. Just the way the word "saint" is used Biblically is enough to tell me he had something there. 17 hours ago, runewell said: According to Brigham Young's definition of a saint, I don't think anybody on this earth qualifies. The New Testament says something quite different. 5 minutes ago, runewell said: After bytebear's comment I think I am on-topic enough. So, by your logic the picking of one word and expanding that into a completely different context is not a threadjack. OK. So here I submit to a candid world a self-admission by runewell that he does not think. I believe we have already acknowledged that before. But with his lack of thought, he is completely unaware of our comments. Do we need to continue trying to explain things to him? I guess it is a fruitless venture since he obviously doesn't think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
person0 Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 minute ago, anatess2 said: This is when we need a new thread so we don't hijack this one. If you really want to know what Brigham Young meant - with honest intent to learn, and not so you can have the opportunity to satisfy some desire to throw darts at Mormons - then please start a new thread and we'll happily explain it to you. A new thread has already been started for @runewell and any topic of discussion/study here: It appears runewell is purposefully choosing to not use it so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, person0 said: A new thread has already been started for @runewell and any topic of discussion/study here: It appears runewell is purposefully choosing to not use it so far. Okay @runewell, click here: https://mormonhub.com/forums/topic/61536-new-thread-for-runewell/ and let's discuss it. Don't be scared. I don't bite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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