I'm confused by the 3 different levels in the Celestial Kingdom

[Guest MormonGator]

58 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

just a concerned person on the forum. 

I think all of us are concerned about your questions. No, that's not an insult. It's a serious, legit concern. You are showing clear signs that you are suffering from scrupulosity. Again, not me being snarky, pejorative or trying to score points. 

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I think all of us are concerned about your questions. No, that's not an insult. It's a serious, legit concern. You are showing clear signs that you are suffering from scrupulosity. Again, not me being snarky, pejorative or trying to score points. 

What does scrupulosity mean? I just see myself as a very deep thinker, especially when it comes to logistics and doctrine about the eternities.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Zarahemla

[Jane_Doe]

5 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

What does scrupulosity mean?

Scrupulosity is a form of OCD, where a person spends obsessive time/energy worrying about not being religiously "good enough" and concerned that they will fail.  It is a destructive condition.  It is not God's way.  Basic wiki article on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrupulosity

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

Scrupulosity is a form of OCD, where a person spends obsessive time/energy worrying about not being religiously "good enough" and concerned that they will fail.  It is a destructive condition.  It is not God's way.  Basic wiki article on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrupulosity

Yup. It's a serious thing. Nothing to joke around about or anything. 

1 hour ago, Zarahemla said:

What does scrupulosity mean? I just see myself as a very deep thinker, especially when it comes to logistics and doctrine about the eternities.

You might be a very deep thinker but I'm not sure a deep thinker would call himself/herself such. Just saying...

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

Do you think he would know? Or is that a shot at my mental health problems?

I have my own mental health to contend with. I would never make a shot at anyone else's struggles. 

Jane answered as well as I ever could have. Along with what she explained,  I think you tend to do what I call "spinning". You are grabbing everything you can to stress and fuss about and working yourself into a spin. Part of what your therapist can do is help you out of that pattern, and help you to avoid getting back into it. 

[Guest MormonGator]

34 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

I have my own mental health to contend with. I would never make a shot at anyone else's struggles. 

Jane answered as well as I ever could have. Along with what she explained,  I think you tend to do what I call "spinning". You are grabbing everything you can to stress and fuss about and working yourself into a spin. Part of what your therapist can do is help you out of that pattern, and help you to avoid getting back into it. 

Well said. 

And to elaborate on my point-if you really are a deep thinker, you don't need to tell us, we'll be able to see it. And if you aren't, nothing you say will convince us otherwise so don't bother.

[Sunday21]

Have you tried cognitive therapy? This is a method of correcting misguided self critism. The feeling good handbook by burns is excellent. Most libraries stock it.

[skalenfehl]

On 12/23/2016 at 6:42 AM, james12 said:

I personally believe that our understanding of three degrees within the celestial kingdom is an erroneous one. Joseph made a statement about it but it is only documented in one location by William Clayton. The statement is as follows, "In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; and in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; and if he does not he cannot obtain it. (D&C 131:1-3). I find it much more likely that the term "celestial glory" in this instance refers to heaven in general, as in "heavenly glories". That would mean that Joseph was referring to all of the three kingdoms of glory (telestial, terestrial, and celestial) and that he was stating that in order to enter the highest of these, what we term today the "Celestial Kingdom", we would need to be married and sealed up unto eternal life. See more about this here.

Further, we know that there are many degrees and many kingdoms in the eternal realm as the Savior once testified. In the celestial kingdom I'm sure there are many many different degrees of glory. We must understand that the three different degrees of glory are simply three main divisions in heaven. The telestial is ruled by the Holy Ghost, the terestrial is ruled by the Son, and the Celestial is ruled by the Father. 

It is also not enough simply to go through the motions of being baptized, being confirmed, or being sealed. This is attested to in D&C 76 wherein it is said of those in the telestial glory, "These are they who say they are some of one and some of another - some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch; but received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant" (D&C 76: 100-101). Note that these say they are Christ's but it is clear that it never entered their hearts. These are those of the telestial sphere. 

I believe in order to enter the Celestial kingdom a person needs to be sealed up unto eternal life. This is more than simply entering into the form of eternal marriage with a spouse. Having read much of what Joseph Smith said, when he talks about sealing he talks about it more in terms of us receiving the sure word of prophecy (calling and election sure) not so much in kneeling across the altar with our spouse. For instance in the same D&C 130 he says, "The more sure word of prophecy means a man's knowing that he is sealed up unto eternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the Holy Priesthood. It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance [ie. not knowing he has been sealed up to eternal life]." (D&C 130:5-6). Or during another occasion he was describing priesthood power. He said,

 So, at the end of this long post, I would say that to enter into the celestial kingdom means to be sealed up by the Holy Spirit of promise unto eternal life. If we obtain that promise from the Lord the storms of the adversary may beat upon us but we will not fall. At the end of our days we will obtain what we have previously been promised by the voice of the Lord himself and will enter into the celestial kingdom. 

Indeed! And D&C 76 addresses this. To be sealed up to eternal life is to receive the testimony of Jesus while in the flesh. 

Quote

D&C 76:51 They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given

In the out of print book, Words Of Joseph Smith, we read:

Quote

First chapter second epistle of Peter. The first four verses are the preface to the whole subject. There are three grand keys to unlock the whole subject. First what is the knowledge of God, Second what is it to make our calling and election sure. Third and last how to make our calling and election sure. And, it is to obtain a promise from God for myself that I shall have Eternal Life, that is the more sure word of prophecy. Peter was writing to those of like precious faith with them the Apostles First to be sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise that is the testimony of Jesus Second how is he to get the Holy Spirit; And except a man be born of water and the spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. Ques. What is it for a man to obtain salvation Ans. It is to triumph over every foe or ascend far above all enemies for the last enemy to conquer is death and until that is done you have not obtained salvation J. Smith Prophet. Nauvoo. – Joseph Smith, Words of Joseph Smith, p. 209

Therefore, continuing with D&C 76:

Quote

52 That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power;

 53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.

 54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn...

The passage by Peter, which Joseph Smith quoted is found in 2 Peter Ch1:

Quote

1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Those who lack the Christlike attributes described by Peter forget that they were purged of their old sins when they were baptized by water and also by fire (Holy Ghost). Continuing in D&C 76:

Quote

 70 These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.

But those who do not "receive" this while in the flesh, do not attain to the Celestial Kingdom as we continue reading in D&C 76 who attain the Terrestrial Kingdom or Lower:

Quote

71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament...

74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.

Joseph Smith tirelessly admonished the early saints (as Peter probably tirelessly did) to make their calling and election sure. Joseph described it in his teachings that this "testimony" of Jesus becomes an anchor to the soul. These are they who inherit the Celestial Kingdom. Yet this is not the end. Continuing James12 quote of D&C 130, I will add:

Quote

8 The place where God resides is a great Urim and Thummim.

 9 This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s.

 10 Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known

There is no stagnation. The course of the Lord is one eternal round. And so is the course of every "celestial" being. The Celestial Kingdom is not the end. 

 

Edited January 13, 2017 by skalenfehl
typos (ugh)

[Sunday21]

On 2016-12-23 at 2:42 PM, Jane_Doe said:

You are trying to force your relationship with Christ into a "To Do" list.  In doing so, you are DESTROYING your real relationship with Christ and yourself.  

STOP IT.  

Boyd K Packer (loved this man!) gave a talk about revelation in which he warned that if we try to force revelation, we will be deceived. 

[Blackmarch]

On 12/23/2016 at 0:09 AM, Zarahemla said:

All my life I've been confused by who qualifies for earch level in the Celestial Kingdom so this is just what my guess has always been since I thought of it at age 16. And remind you I know you have to be worthy:

Level 1 Lowest level: Baptized into the church and receive the Holy Ghost by confirmation where you will be a ministering angel

Level 2 Middle level : Receive temple initiatory and temple endowment where you will be a ministering angel

Level 3 Highest level where you can receive exaltation and have a continuation of the seeds forever and be a god : Be sealed to a spouse for time and all eternity, or die before the age of accountability or be born with mental disabilities that keep you from being accountable to sin.

 

So those are my honest beliefs that I feel good about. What say you? Take a guess don't just say I don't know, those answers are boring, actually make a guess who you think goes to what level.

they look good and sound good, but i feel that this could lead a person into getting trapped into their own view to be honest (which can result in a lot of pain or conflict due to ending up not being correct or something along that line), so i would caution you heavily if you decide to go this route. I can't recall specific requirements for these sublevels of the celestial kingdom other than the priesthood and marriage are required for the highest one.

the principle of justice suggests to me that not everyone can get the exact same reward. My experience with people suggests to me that not everyone will want the exact same reward.