broadway Posted April 4, 2004 Report Share Posted April 4, 2004 March 31, 2004 BY MICHAEL SNEED <mailto:[email protected]> SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST The State of Illinois is saying it's sorry for something that happened 160 years ago. And it's all because Ald. Ed Burke (14th) is a closet historian. Last week, a resolution was quietly passed by the Illinois Legislature seeking "the pardon and forgiveness" of the Mormon Church for persecution that led to the expulsion of 20,000 members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1844 from Nauvoo, and the 1844 vigilante murder of Mormon leader Joseph Smith. The resolution reportedly stunned Mormon Church President Gordon B. Hinckley, who was so touched by the apology he "had tears in his eyes," said a source. The official apology, which was introduced by state Reps. Dan Burke (D-Chicago) and Jack Franks (D-Woodstock), meant so much to the Mormon church a delegation from Illinois led by Lt. Gov. Pat Quinn has been invited to Salt lake City to meet with Hinckley. The delegation also includes Ald. Burke, his wife, Illinois Appellate Court Judge Anne Burke, Dan Burke (the alderman's brother) and Franks. The thread that sewed closure to the 160-year-old Mormon tragedy began when the Burkes vacationed in Utah last year with their friends, Elaine and Burt Gordon. They were introduced to Lt. Gov. Olene Walker and her husband, Myron, a great-grandson of a Nauvoo survivor who helped establish Salt Lake City, the Rome of the Mormon Church. We spent dinner getting a rundown on Nauvoo and the Mormon expulsion," said Judge Burke. "My husband, who is besotted with history - especially Chicago history- was fascinated by Nauvoo and the way the Latter-day Saints were treated," she added. As a result, Ald. Burke spoke with Rep. Burke, and a resolution was drafted in February. When the Burkes returned to the Gordon home in February and reported on the draft of the resolution, they had no idea the reaction would be so emotional. Walker, who had since been elected governor, immediately called Hinckley, who summoned the Burkes to his inner sanctum. “It was amazing to see how personally he took the state's gesture," Judge Burke added. "He was moved to tears. Three generations have come and gone since the Mormon expulsion, but to them it's like it happened yesterday. Most have relatives who fled Nauvoo and they heard the story all their lives. "When Nauvoo was settled it was the 10th-largest city in the United States," she said. "It was a thriving community that was forced out and left in the dead of night to ensure their safety. "We thought it was about time to apologize." And they will do so on April 7th - one day after the 174th anniversary of the church's founding. The Burkes are devout Catholics, with Judge Burke presiding over the National Review Board, which is examining allegations of sexual abuse by priests in the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr2 Posted April 4, 2004 Report Share Posted April 4, 2004 Now which mormon will step forward and appologize for the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 Originally posted by Tr2@Apr 4 2004, 04:52 PM Now which mormon will step forward and appologize for the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Sorry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedar Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 Mountain Meadows Massacre? How many died? 4? Is this like the Boston "Massacre"? Trident, show the facts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr2 Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 How many died? 4?Pffft, if it was only 4 then it was ok then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faerie Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/respons...Meadows_EOM.htmHardly a comparison... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr2 Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 Hardly a comparison... So that must make it ok. I love your logic. So if I go out and kill somebody that is ok because it's not as bad as the holocaust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 Besides the MMM, I was thinking that maybe now the church would step forward and apologize to people of African ancestory (for an entirely different reason.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 Originally posted by cedar@Apr 4 2004, 05:16 PM Mountain Meadows Massacre? How many died? 4? Is this like the Boston "Massacre"?Trident, show the facts I believe it was more like 104. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 Originally posted by Tr2@Apr 4 2004, 04:52 PM Now which mormon will step forward and appologize for the Mountain Meadows Massacre. I believe GBH already DID apologize in a ceremony a few years ago. I don't remember the details, but it sticks in my mind that he gave an address in or near Cedar city regarding the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 Originally posted by Cal+Apr 5 2004, 12:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cal @ Apr 5 2004, 12:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Tr2@Apr 4 2004, 04:52 PM Now which mormon will step forward and appologize for the Mountain Meadows Massacre. I believe GBH already DID apologize in a ceremony a few years ago. I don't remember the details, but it sticks in my mind that he gave an address in or near Cedar city regarding the subject. Yes, I remember such a ceremony...they have a monument there now....where it happened.I think there is a world wanting to heal....we should all help it...don't you think TR2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lt Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 82 dead is not 4...........However if the victims can move past this, why cannot the rest of the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ammon Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 I now want an apology from Missouri, the United States, and www.christianforums.com . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFDaw Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 Don't hold your breath Ammon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr2 Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 Yes, I remember such a ceremony...they have a monument there now....where it happened.I think there is a world wanting to heal....we should all help it...don't you think TR2?If that is the case, then it's nice to know. I'd be interested to see what the president actually said. The biggest reason I asked is because I have seen a number of mormons that don't appear to have too big of a problem with what happened. it seems like some dismiss it as not important. And yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 Many Latter-day Saints do not consider the incident as being sanctioned by the Church in the first place. If all churches were to apologize for things their members have done individually, that's all they'd get done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr2 Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 If all churches were to apologize for things their members have done individually, that's all they'd get done.If that were the case then we'd live in a much better world, instead of one where people pretend like nothing bad has ever happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheProudDuck Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Originally posted by Outshined@Apr 5 2004, 04:19 PM Many Latter-day Saints do not consider the incident as being sanctioned by the Church in the first place. If all churches were to apologize for things their members have done individually, that's all they'd get done. True -- but I think it's fair to say that there's a difference between, say, a robbery committed by a lapsed Mormon (like Butch Cassidy) and something that involved many Mormons acting collectively, and apparently under the direction of Church authorities, even local ones. Bad things done by individual members of a church, aren't its responsibility. They are typically done in spite of, or in contradiction to, the teachings of the church. The massacre at Mountain Meadows, on the other hand, happened precisely because of a deeply-rooted Church tradition -- its cult of obedience. The Mormon militiamen's duly-consituted authorities told them to halt and do their duty, and they did it without questioning.The Church has done far more good than bad -- but the cult of obedience has been the common thread in virtually every bad thing it is accountable for. It needs to be put down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Apr 5 2004, 05:58 PM The massacre at Mountain Meadows, on the other hand, happened precisely because of a deeply-rooted Church tradition -- its cult of obedience. Disagree.Undoubtedly that was a factor. But it was not the cause as implied by your because. As I view it, it was the culmination as a very complex fabric or events, emotions, rhetoric, paranoia, etc. Recently a So. Cal attorney, Robert Briggs, countered Will Bagley's general thesis (they put on a road show together). This is an outline of steps in a process, in his view, that evolve into such trajedy.Escalating Violence –The Process-Bias-Prejudice-Discrimination-Denunciation-Fighting Words-Physical Attacks-Organized Attacks-Dispossession-Killings-Mass Killings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr2 Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Disagree.What else is new! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dan Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Originally posted by curvette@Apr 4 2004, 09:17 PM Besides the MMM, I was thinking that maybe now the church would step forward and apologize to people of African ancestory (for an entirely different reason.) That doesn't require an apology, because the leaders of the church were acting how they were told to through divine revelation. People of African ancestory were allowed to have the priesthood and the associated blessings only when God decided the time was right. (And why wouldn't they be allowed from the beginning? Maybe the world wasn't ready for a church which allowed such a thing. Maybe the world was just too racist for it to be a good idea before 1978. For whatever reason, it wasn't meant as anything personal against the African people.)As for the MMM, why shouldn't we dismiss it as unimportant? We're punished for our own sins, right? Well, I definitely didn't kill anybody, so you've no right to blame me. The official apology from Illinois is meant as a kind gesture (And it is a kind gesture! Go Illinois! You rock!), not as a way of accepting blame for something that nobody currently living in Illinois was involved in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Originally posted by Dan+Apr 5 2004, 10:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dan @ Apr 5 2004, 10:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--curvette@Apr 4 2004, 09:17 PM Besides the MMM, I was thinking that maybe now the church would step forward and apologize to people of African ancestory (for an entirely different reason.) That doesn't require an apology, because the leaders of the church were acting how they were told to through divine revelation. People of African ancestory were allowed to have the priesthood and the associated blessings only when God decided the time was right. (And why wouldn't they be allowed from the beginning? Maybe the world wasn't ready for a church which allowed such a thing. Maybe the world was just too racist for it to be a good idea before 1978. For whatever reason, it wasn't meant as anything personal against the African people.)As for the MMM, why shouldn't we dismiss it as unimportant? We're punished for our own sins, right? Well, I definitely didn't kill anybody, so you've no right to blame me. The official apology from Illinois is meant as a kind gesture (And it is a kind gesture! Go Illinois! You rock!), not as a way of accepting blame for something that nobody currently living in Illinois was involved in. I enjoyed your post Dan. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serapha Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 I now want an apology from Missouri, the United States, and www.christianforums.com . . . Ammon,don't let that anger eat at you. God, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. (The Serenity Prayer is generally thought to have been written by Reinhold Niebuhr) When you cannot change the people or circumstances, then just commit it to God and move on. ~serapha~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Originally posted by Dan@Apr 5 2004, 10:05 PM That doesn't require an apology, because the leaders of the church were acting how they were told to through divine revelation. Bologney... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Originally posted by Dan@Apr 5 2004, 10:05 PM As for the MMM, why shouldn't we dismiss it as unimportant? We're punished for our own sins, right? Well, I definitely didn't kill anybody, so you've no right to blame me. The official apology from Illinois is meant as a kind gesture (And it is a kind gesture! Go Illinois! You rock!), not as a way of accepting blame for something that nobody currently living in Illinois was involved in. So then why can't the LDS church also contribute a kind gesture toward the families of those that died in the MMM, by apologizing?M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.