The Crossroads of My Dreams and Destiny

[yjacket]

10 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

The fact of the matter is that she is worthy of your love, she is worthy of every blessing God has for the righteous.  The question is are you worthy of her?  I don't fault you for preferring to marry somebody who did not make such mistakes, but to make that a requirement is uncharitable, uncompassionate, proud, selfish, unforgiving, unchristlike, cruel, self righteous and foolish.  Abandon your ill conceived pledge, ask her to forgive you for making it, and start seeing people as Christ sees them.  She has confessed and repented of her wrongs, you need to do the same.

This is total hogwash.  Are you worthy of her?  Give me a break. What is wrong with this world?  In today's society we castigate the individual who desires for, wants a pure, virtuous wife, who has lived her life as such and is heartbroken when he finds out that his potential mate fornicated prior to marriage.  

And he is the one who is unworthy?  Please, what utter complete rubbish, garbage and hogwash. 

 

Edited May 27, 2017 by yjacket

[Gazing at essence]

@Jane_Doe

Your story was so tender. Thank you for opening up that part of your life to me.

I have a sibling who went off having sex freely as a young teenager and I have family who were sexually abused as well so there are just so many different possible scenarios that we could encounter in our lives. I am realizing more and more that the most important thing to our spiritual well being is our current commitment to the gospel. I cannot thank you enough for the impact your post has had on my thought process. I am so glad that you and your husband are doing well. God bless you

[yjacket]

55 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

She is clean in God's eyes and deserves to enjoy the fruits of her full repentance, including having a spouse who won't look at her as used chewing gum. 

She is clean in God's eyes, but let's not kid ourselves, having sexual relations changes an individual.  Call it "used chewing gum" (I don't like the analogy) call it whatever you want but there is a reason why God commanded men and women to remain pure and chaste prior to marriage.  I find it despicable that members of the Church would do what they can do make a young man who has lived his life worthily (something to be commended for and honored) feel bad b/c he his having second thoughts b/c his potential spouse did not live like that.

What a sick society we live in.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, yjacket said:

She is clean in God's eyes, but let's not kid ourselves, having sexual relations changes an individual.  Call it "used chewing gum" (I don't like the analogy) call it whatever you want but there is a reason why God commanded men and women to remain pure and chaste prior to marriage.  I find it despicable that members of the Church would do what they can do make a young man who has lived his life worthily (something to be commended for and honored) feel bad b/c he his having second thoughts b/c his potential spouse did not live like that.

What a sick society we live in.

You completely missed my point. 

[Gazing at essence]

@yjacket

I appreciate how you have seen things from my perspective. As you can imagine I have been criticized recently for my hesitation to advance in the relationship. Now once I get to some more replies I will update my situation (because she and I just talked on the phone for over an hour) and let everyone know where things are right now.

But I can already tell you are the type of person I get along with hahaha. Thanks for your comments. Now I do acknowledge that I am bringing a lot of extra burdens and stress to our situation but I just want to thank you for seeing through my eyes. 

[Guest]

@yjacket , how far do you think the Atonement extends for a sinner? 

[yjacket]

Gazing,

Look man, you are choosing an eternal companion, a mate for the rest of your life. Maybe you should break it off, maybe not.  Only God knows the answer to that question.  Don't beat yourself up in the least bit b/c you feel saddened, heartbroken, etc. by what this young woman has done previously.  Sexual relationships outside of marriage is a big deal. It is quite despicable that in today's society more people can't seem to realize fornication and the seriousness of that sin.  Popular culture, media, etc. all makes it seem like it is no big deal and that is rubbish.  It is a big deal-certainly a big enough deal that yes it can cause the re-evaluation of marriage prospects.  

Besides the obvious problems, if this young lady has had multiple sexual encounters, then does she have any STDs? As someone said in another thread, actions have consequences.  

If I can give you any advice in marriage, it is this and the #1 thing I will tell my children-under no circumstance be unequally yolked with your spouse. It is up to you to determine what unequally yolked means.

[Gazing at essence]

@Latter-Day Marriage

Hey I appreciate your defense of her and your desire to make sure she is treated fairly. One of the problems with communicating over technology is that I can't show you all just how sorry I am and just how much I do actually care for her. I realize that my writing may reveal my prideful nature and my young attitude that certainly needs to mature. But I do want you to know that I mourned with her on the phone today and I made sure that she knows she is forgiven and that the problem is mine now. The problem being my ability to accept her for who she is and what she has done. I told her that she deserves a man who will not make her feel guilty because of things she has done in the past and repented of. (Maybe I will grow up into that man maybe I will not be able to. I am trying to become a better priesthood holder). I think I don't come across the right way on these posts. If you met me in person I reckon you would maybe think differently of me (at least different from the way your responses seem to imply). I am calm, caring, and would never want to see one of Heavenly Father's precious daughters cry. What I experienced today will be carved into my memory for forever. 

You did provide a lot of advice that I really appreciate. So I thank you for that. For the directness and the passion and the love. All of it.

[Jane_Doe]

@Gazing at essence, you sound like an extremely caring young man, whose working his hardest to listen to the Lord when this unexpected corkscrew came into your life.  You're acknowledging your feelings for her, your pride, your limitation, and doing your best to understand her.  To me at least, it seems you're doing your best to move forward, listening to the Lord every step of the way.    It is very admirable. 

[yjacket]

3 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

@yjacket , how far do you think the Atonement extends for a sinner? 

Completely 100%.  I have said previously we are required to forgive and forget.  But that forgetting, might just mean we don't have that person in our lives-i.e. we move on from them.

There is the modern idea in church culture that with sex outside of marriage is bad, but that as long as one repents it shouldn't be a factor in a marriage decision-hogwash.

I can come up with plenty of scenarios like that.  

What about a guy who did marijuana and cocaine, and who has now fully repented? Should those prior actions not be taken into account in a marriage decision.

What if the girl had an abortion? Should that not be factored into the marriage decision?

We can play this game all day long, but the truth is that yes actions have consequences and one is choosing an eternal companion to stick by and through thick and thin for the rest of your life and eternity.  One is not expecting a spouse to be perfect (no one is), but there better be a long gap between serious sins.  If it is like well I screwed around with my previous boyfriend a year ago, but I've been to my Bishop I have repented, I'm truly sorry-watch out.  If it was well, you know when I was 16 I was really dumb and messed around with only one guy, I'm now 22 I'm a totally different person now . . .okay maybe.

Actions have consequences.  And if I'm looking for an eternal companion one of the biggest factors is going to be their judgement.  Screwing around with multiple boyfriends shows a severe lack of judgement.  Sure they can repent and be fully forgiven-but that still doesn't negate the fact that they have a severe lack of judgement.  So yeah, I'm going to start having some serious questions about whether this is the right thing to do given their lack of judgement.

[Gazing at essence]

@yjacket

It broke my heart to hear the details over the phone today but I feel calm right now. It was so much more than I expected btw.....I know that I can choose either route now with confidence (as soon as I am positive that the direction I am choosing is approved by the Lord). 

As far as STDs go she is clean. Yeah I was starting to get concerned about that area too. 

Just like you I believe everything should be spilled out on the table. Even if things have been repented of, a potential future spouse deserves to know!!!

I agree with what you are saying about the media. It is just disgusting. And what bothers me more is that sometimes it seems like us church members try to understand sexual transgressions committed by members by placing different scenarios against a background of the world's standards. "Oh it could be much worse right?! That isn't even bad compared to most people huh?!". It almost seems like some sort of (hmmm I wouldn't say justification but) a hyper friendly perspective that can make us forget just how serious the Law of Chastity is. Our triumphs, sins, and attitude are all immortal. I agree with your most recent post as well. These things matter so much. Being told "it is no big deal" or "you need to forgive and forget" is hard because we are talking about eternity. Every step we take is helping determine our eventual destination. 

I was surprised to find out that a lot of her sins took place after her mission. I came across a scripture today in Jeremiah 13 which reads: Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

I think we all have different tendencies and a different conscience/method of judging. I am not saying people cannot overcome their instincts....buuuuut a leopard just doesn't change its spots. The tendencies and past of women I may date will influence my decisions. And I hope they pay close attention to my faults as well so they make a judicious decision as well. 

Good luck with your searching friend.

[Gazing at essence]

@Jane_Doe

Thanks for the kind compliment and for your support. I have appreciated all of your responses. You are an absolute sweetheart! 

I will continue to keep those interested in following this post updated on how everything turns out.

[Jane_Doe]

6 minutes ago, Gazing at essence said:

I was surprised to find out that a lot of her sins took place after her mission. I came across a scripture today in Jeremiah 13 which reads: Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

I think we all have different tendencies and a different conscience/method of judging. I am not saying people cannot overcome their instincts....buuuuut a leopard just doesn't change its spots. The tendencies and past of women I may date will influence my decisions. And I hope they pay close attention to my faults as well so they make a judicious decision as well. 

Good luck with your searching friend.

People by themselves seldom change their ways.  But people with the Lord super-charging them-- they can change.  They can indeed have every filthy spot and horrible crimson stain washes out to be white as snow.  That is the miracle of Christ's atonement.  

[Gazing at essence]

@Eowyn

I completely agree with you. I think she is feeling even more pressured right now because she is quite a bit older than me and she is starting to feel like she is running out of time to have a family and be a mother. This makes my heart ache worse because I want her to have an eternal family and experience the happiness that she deserves.

I made sure today that she knows she is forgiven and clean. It hurt having to have this discussion over the phone when I just wanted to hold her. I told her that she deserves so much and is too good for a man that will not let her past go. 

I will be praying to the Lord and fasting to know what to do next. Although her past she illustrated today in detail was a lot more than I expected, I am not giving up on her yet. 

[yjacket]

One of the Apostles once taught STTE of prior to marriage have your eyes wide open and then after marriage half shut.  This is the time to have your eyes wide open.

@Gazing at essence Personally, I think it is crap that she told you this over the phone, it is the cowards way out-it's better than text, but not by much.  Some things in life are things that must be done in person.  But then again, the older I get the more old-fashioned I get, probably b/c the older I get the more wisdom I find in how people thought 60+ years ago. Breaking up using text messages is just an anethma to me-why? I don't understand.

I don't know what you should do, only God knows that-but please my young friend do not beat yourself up thinking you need to be a better man over this, or that you are prideful or immature in having these concerns.  The world would have you think that you are, but you aren't.  

Part of my directness, is the fact that as a father, I have learned many, many important lessons.  Part of that learning is that there is a balance that must be struck between justice, mercy, love, discipline.  It is my opinion that the world has gone too far in the direction of what the world would term "love and mercy".  In other words, everything is just a big "oops", I'm sorry it's no big deal I won't do it again-with very little remorse, or with the idea that all I need to do is say sorry and everything can be as it was.

It is a hard lesson to learn in life, but sometimes there is no going back-sometimes the feathers get ripped out of the pillows and no matter how hard you try to put them back in-you will always miss a feather. Actions have consequences and sometimes very serious ones-the can cost us a potential spouse, a job, a career, etc.

The amazing thing about the Atonement is that even if a sin causes us to miss an opportunity in life due to our actions and consequences, God will provide a way to make a miracle in our life. Jesus Christ came through the lineage of Bethsheba, how much more proof do we need than that to understand that for the truly penitent, another path opens up, and God is able to work through us to accomplish something very, very good.

 

[yjacket]

6 minutes ago, Gazing at essence said:

I made sure today that she knows she is forgiven and clean.

The only way she will truly know she is forgiven is to feel the peace from God. You can say it, the Bishop can say it, but only God can give it to her-only He can heal her-not you. You can certainly help-but only God can give it. 

If you go into the marriage thinking only you can save her-you are setting yourself up to be unequally yolked.

You cannot save your spouse-they have to save themselves through Christ's atoning blood.  Salvation is an individual matter, no one can do it for you.  If you try to do it for her-it will fail.

Edited May 27, 2017 by yjacket

[Jane_Doe]

6 minutes ago, yjacket said:

@Gazing at essence Personally, I think it is crap that she told you this over the phone, it is the cowards way out-it's better than text, but not by much.  Some things in life are things that must be done in person.  

He previously mentioned that they live in different countries, so in-person would not be possible.

[yjacket]

18 minutes ago, Gazing at essence said:

I was surprised to find out that a lot of her sins took place after her mission.

This would give me great, great pause.  Fornicating after a mission . . . 

[yjacket]

He previously mentioned that they live in different countries, so in-person would not be possible.

Oh I missed that, my fault.  Still . . .Skype??

Different countries?  Unless its a very similar country, another cautionary signal.  Clashes of different cultures can easily lead to being unequally yolked.

Edited May 27, 2017 by yjacket

[yjacket]

14 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

People by themselves seldom change their ways.  But people with the Lord super-charging them-- they can change.  They can indeed have every filthy spot and horrible crimson stain washes out to be white as snow.  That is the miracle of Christ's atonement.  

I do love this Jane-very well said.

[Gazing at essence]

@DoctorLemon

Thank you so much for your advice. It honestly means a lot to me. I hope that my knowledge of the atonement eventually grows to the point where I can look back with the type of mature perspective that you clearly have.

I have been praying about it and I plan to continue doing so. Right now I feel so relieved though. She told me everything, yet I feel like it will all work out. 

You are spot on about her deserving praise for her honesty. I am so proud of her. Things are going to work out and I will let you know what happens. 

Seriously-thanks for such heartfelt direction.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, yjacket said:

She is clean in God's eyes, but let's not kid ourselves, having sexual relations changes an individual.  Call it "used chewing gum" (I don't like the analogy) call it whatever you want but there is a reason why God commanded men and women to remain pure and chaste prior to marriage.  I find it despicable that members of the Church would do what they can do make a young man who has lived his life worthily (something to be commended for and honored) feel bad b/c he his having second thoughts b/c his potential spouse did not live like that.

What a sick society we live in.

What I read:

"Well yeah, when you say it, it sounds bad.

 

i guess technically she's clean, except she's really not.

 

If you disagree with me, you're sick."

[Gazing at essence]

@my two cents

I just wanted to quickly thank you for the warm welcome and your thoughts. I will keep those things in mind. I appreciate it.

[Gazing at essence]

@eddified

Well I actually ended up finding out the details today. For me I just want our relationship to be one of trust and I don't want there to be any secrets. Maybe I am crazy, but I just see it bothering me more in the future if I don't know what she had been up to. Part of moving on for me is understanding the situation completely. 

Thanks of your advice and responses

[Gazing at essence]

@eddified

Thank you for the advice. I feel really grateful right now to be realizing that I am in complete control of this situation. I felt a sense of reassurance today that I can stay or leave and still become the man the Lord wants me to become. It will take a lot of praying to know which path to take. I just want to be sure I have the Lord's approval.