Grownup version of Truman Madsen's "Joseph Smith" lectures?

[Vort]

Okay, I admit the title of this thread is almost blatantly offensive. Madsenonians, please forgive me. Believe it or not, I don't mean to offend.

Many of you discovered the late BYU professor Truman Madsen's eight "Joseph Smith" lectures at a young age. I didn't discover them until I was well into my 20s, I think. And while I found Madsen's delivery overly precious and sometimes more than a bit affected, I thought he gave a sincere and very informative, um, hagiography. I listened to those lectures a dozen times, probably much more, but I haven't listened to them in many years. Just did so last week, and I'm sorry to say, they left me just a bit cold. Nothing wrong with the lectures themselves -- lots of interesting anecdotes and insightful histories -- but it seemed to lack meat. I was craving knowledge, and I got what Madsen himself constantly described as "glimpses".

So does anyone have the upperclass-level series of lectures to complement Madsen's more introductory-level "survey course"? I'm okay with hagiography, though I don't insist on it. Rough Stone Rolling was fine and all, lots of very good material, but Bushman often appears to be trying too hard to play the Impartial Historian, to the point of giving undue emphasis to a weak point just to appear "fair" and "impartial". If a man is a prophet, say he's a prophet. Quit dancing around the central point. (This is the one thing I still really enjoy about Madsen's series. If Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, then nothing else in his life really makes a bit of difference. The stories to the contrary are probably either false or misunderstood, and in any case are irrelevant. Madsen takes an unapologetically faithful viewpoint, which I both respect and enjoy.)

[Guest]

I haven't read any of these.  But you might try them.

https://www.amazon.com/Life-Teachings-Prophet-Joseph/dp/1590382757/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1500914836&sr=8-15&keywords=truman+madsen

https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Ground-Reflections-Joseph-Smith/dp/B0041TV2YO/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1500914892&sr=8-17&keywords=truman+madsen

https://www.amazon.com/Concordance-Doctrinal-Statements-Joseph-Smith/dp/B000MLGK8S/ref=sr_1_35?ie=UTF8&qid=1500915057&sr=8-35&keywords=truman+madsen

 

[SpiritDragon]

@Vort My understanding is that this is part of the 8-part follow up series that Madsen did, I haven't had the chance to listen yet though, so I'm not sure how upper-classy it is.You can find all of the original eight-part series and this follow up eight-part series in addition to dramatized church history among other things on this youtube channel. 

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by SpiritDragon

[Fether]

On 7/24/2017 at 10:35 AM, Vort said:

Okay, I admit the title of this thread is almost blatantly offensive. Madsenonians, please forgive me. Believe it or not, I don't mean to offend.

Many of you discovered the late BYU professor Truman Madsen's eight "Joseph Smith" lectures at a young age. I didn't discover them until I was well into my 20s, I think. And while I found Madsen's delivery overly precious and sometimes more than a bit affected, I thought he gave a sincere and very informative, um, hagiography. I listened to those lectures a dozen times, probably much more, but I haven't listened to them in many years. Just did so last week, and I'm sorry to say, they left me just a bit cold. Nothing wrong with the lectures themselves -- lots of interesting anecdotes and insightful histories -- but it seemed to lack meat. I was craving knowledge, and I got what Madsen himself constantly described as "glimpses".

So does anyone have the upperclass-level series of lectures to complement Madsen's more introductory-level "survey course"? I'm okay with hagiography, though I don't insist on it. Rough Stone Rolling was fine and all, lots of very good material, but Bushman often appears to be trying too hard to play the Impartial Historian, to the point of giving undue emphasis to a weak point just to appear "fair" and "impartial". If a man is a prophet, say he's a prophet. Quit dancing around the central point. (This is the one thing I still really enjoy about Madsen's series. If Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, then nothing else in his life really makes a bit of difference. The stories to the contrary are probably either false or misunderstood, and in any case are irrelevant. Madsen takes an unapologetically faithful viewpoint, which I both respect and enjoy.)

Since this has been resurrected from its 2 month slumber, I'll add this.

I think what you are looking for may be redundant, that a more in depth lecture might as well just be an audio book of the "comprehensive history of the church", biographies and the Joseph Smith Papers.

If you are just looking for something new, I always compared Hugh Nibley's "Exaltation and Eternal Life" (https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/hugh-nibley_exaltation-eternal-life-words-brigham-young/) discourse in the BYU speeches archive as being very comparable to Truman G Madsen's lectures on Joseph Amith. Nibley speaks so fast that I learn something new about Christlike attributes and principles of the gospel every time I listen to it.

Also you might check this out: https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/joseph-smith-and-doctrinal-restoration . I have only read section 17 myself but I imagine it is all worth reading.

Elder Tad T Callister also made around 300 pages for his missionaries when he was a mission president (or so the story goes) outlining everything from evidence if the restoration, the apastacy, miracle stories from various early saints, doctrinal explanations, rebutted against false doctrines and a ton more. I have a copy of them if you are interested. 

[Vort]

7 hours ago, Fether said:

Elder Tad T Callister also made around 300 pages for his missionaries when he was a mission president (or so the story goes) outlining everything from evidence if the restoration, the apastacy, miracle stories from various early saints, doctrinal explanations, rebutted against false doctrines and a ton more. I have a copy of them if you are interested. 

Sounds very interesting. I'd love a copy, thanks.

[Fether]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

Sounds very interesting. I'd love a copy, thanks.

I'm not positive on how accurate the back story is, but everything I have read seems to have credible sources.

but here it is. A lot of basic principles, evidences of what we believe, miracle stories... really there is just a lot.

There is also a lot in here that he has repeated in talks as well.

Callister__1.pdf

Callister__2.pdf

Callister__3.pdf

[Guest]

On 7/24/2017 at 11:35 AM, Vort said:

I found Madsen's delivery overly precious and sometimes more than a bit affected.

Yes.  But I'll let it be known that it was not a put on for dramatic effect (no I don't think you said that, but I believe many might).  That's just the way he spoke.  He was my stake president when I was engaged.  I heard him speak in large settings as well as small.  He interviewed my wife and me for marriage/sealing.  We had a pleasant conversation with some pearls of wisdom he'd gleaned from his centuries long marriage .  But, yes, that is simply the way he speaks.

RIP, Bro. Madsen.  You opened up Joseph Smith to all generations after you in a way that had not been done before.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Guest